In Search of God's Brakes
20 September 1999, 02:16 PM
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Hi All
('L' reg WRX)
Over the last couple of months I've changed small bits of my brakes about 4 times.
I now have bigger grooved disks and Greenstuff pads on the front, and standard disks and pads on the back. Also had Goodridge hoses fitted.
The difference is apparant but not as staggering as I hoped.
The main reason I keep uprating everything is to avoid dreaded Brake Fade. If I've got my silly head on, I can get the first signs of brake fade after only a couple of miles of hard driving (twisty roads, late braking). Coming from a motorsport background I've used some stunning brakes in the past, so I've decided that it is now time to go the whole hog.
Can anyone advise me what I should do to give me really stonking brakes. I'm talking about the king of brake God would use
If possible, something I could do in medium sized increments so I can still eat and put petrol in the car etc. But if that isn't possible, I'll go hungry.
I used RGS Motorsport in Wellingborough, Northants. John there has been excellent, lots of advice etc. I have been suggesting that I uprate the rear brakes because I don't feel as though they are working very hard. RGS seems a little reluctant to uprate them though. Maybe due to the likelyhood of oversteer under braking. The truth is I would quite like a little oversteer under braking (not too much!).
Any advice would be appreciated.
Cheers
Simon (Sorry about the sad nickname!)
('L' reg WRX)
Over the last couple of months I've changed small bits of my brakes about 4 times.
I now have bigger grooved disks and Greenstuff pads on the front, and standard disks and pads on the back. Also had Goodridge hoses fitted.
The difference is apparant but not as staggering as I hoped.
The main reason I keep uprating everything is to avoid dreaded Brake Fade. If I've got my silly head on, I can get the first signs of brake fade after only a couple of miles of hard driving (twisty roads, late braking). Coming from a motorsport background I've used some stunning brakes in the past, so I've decided that it is now time to go the whole hog.
Can anyone advise me what I should do to give me really stonking brakes. I'm talking about the king of brake God would use
If possible, something I could do in medium sized increments so I can still eat and put petrol in the car etc. But if that isn't possible, I'll go hungry. I used RGS Motorsport in Wellingborough, Northants. John there has been excellent, lots of advice etc. I have been suggesting that I uprate the rear brakes because I don't feel as though they are working very hard. RGS seems a little reluctant to uprate them though. Maybe due to the likelyhood of oversteer under braking. The truth is I would quite like a little oversteer under braking (not too much!).
Any advice would be appreciated.
Cheers
Simon (Sorry about the sad nickname!)
20 September 1999, 03:45 PM
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Simon.
I too have tried several incremental changes to my brakes which have improved things slightly. I have now decided to fit a full Scoobysport/ Brembo conversion when funds allow (approx £1500).
There are other claimed Brembo kits, but this is the only official one. Pete took me out at Cadwell Park and the difference is mind boggling.
By the way, don't use your Greenstuff pads if you do track days. I went through a brand new set in ONE DAY at Donington!!
If I don't get my Brembo's before the next Donington, I'll certainly fit a set of track pads for the day!!
I believe the main benefit of the Brembos is that the dicks are fully floating. I'm sure that I saw a silver car at Wroughton yesterday however, that appeared to have fully floating AP Racing system. Anyone know who it was?
Stef.
I too have tried several incremental changes to my brakes which have improved things slightly. I have now decided to fit a full Scoobysport/ Brembo conversion when funds allow (approx £1500).
There are other claimed Brembo kits, but this is the only official one. Pete took me out at Cadwell Park and the difference is mind boggling.
By the way, don't use your Greenstuff pads if you do track days. I went through a brand new set in ONE DAY at Donington!!
If I don't get my Brembo's before the next Donington, I'll certainly fit a set of track pads for the day!!
I believe the main benefit of the Brembos is that the dicks are fully floating. I'm sure that I saw a silver car at Wroughton yesterday however, that appeared to have fully floating AP Racing system. Anyone know who it was?
Stef.
20 September 1999, 04:01 PM
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I reckon the reference to 'fully floating dicks' must be to do with bath time .....
On the subject of brakes I've also decided to go the big disk/4-pot route - but wasn't willing to pay out for Brembos. I'm getting 4-pot Wilwoods plus 335mm disks (go under 17's). The disks are also 32mm wide so loads of air gap.
These are coming from Hi Spec Motorsport in Kent (don't have the number on me). They also do big disks that go under standard calipers. They'll do a 315mm disk that goes under a 16" wheel with a 28mm width. The standard claiper is spaced out. It's also 'relieved' slightly on it's inner face to go over 28s (as opposed to the standard 24mm)so they have to fit them themselves.
Give them a call to see if they can sort you out.
Also, they'll do rear calipers (4-pots) on standard or larger disks. That *may* be the next item on my list.
Dave
On the subject of brakes I've also decided to go the big disk/4-pot route - but wasn't willing to pay out for Brembos. I'm getting 4-pot Wilwoods plus 335mm disks (go under 17's). The disks are also 32mm wide so loads of air gap.
These are coming from Hi Spec Motorsport in Kent (don't have the number on me). They also do big disks that go under standard calipers. They'll do a 315mm disk that goes under a 16" wheel with a 28mm width. The standard claiper is spaced out. It's also 'relieved' slightly on it's inner face to go over 28s (as opposed to the standard 24mm)so they have to fit them themselves.
Give them a call to see if they can sort you out.
Also, they'll do rear calipers (4-pots) on standard or larger disks. That *may* be the next item on my list.
Dave
20 September 1999, 04:49 PM
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Be vary careful about up-rating the rears. The more braking you apply to the front, the less weight there is on the rear tyres. If you increase the friction at the rear they will lock up/activate the ABS.
The best thing to do with the rears is increase the airflow to the calliper/disc.
The best thing to do with the rears is increase the airflow to the calliper/disc.
20 September 1999, 07:49 PM
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Thanks for the advice so far chaps.
Stef - Glad to see you're talking to me again I think you've got the right idea with the monster upgrade. When you say the difference is mind boggling - I don't mind spending £1500 if it really will be a stunning difference. Is it really that good?
Also, re: rear uprating - I don't have ABS, so the locking up could be a bit of prob in the wet etc. Ideally I would love to be able to tweak it on the fly. But I understand this is completely illegal (any ideas?). This way you could set it just right. It is amazing what a difference it makes to your overall braking to just add a bit of rear brakes. But overdoing it can be disasterous.
Pete - What did you mean by increasing the airflow?
Cheers
Simon
Stef - Glad to see you're talking to me again
I think you've got the right idea with the monster upgrade. When you say the difference is mind boggling - I don't mind spending £1500 if it really will be a stunning difference. Is it really that good?Also, re: rear uprating - I don't have ABS, so the locking up could be a bit of prob in the wet etc. Ideally I would love to be able to tweak it on the fly. But I understand this is completely illegal (any ideas?). This way you could set it just right. It is amazing what a difference it makes to your overall braking to just add a bit of rear brakes. But overdoing it can be disasterous.
Pete - What did you mean by increasing the airflow?
Cheers
Simon
21 September 1999, 12:08 PM
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Simon.
If you are really looking for the god of all brakes, AP do water cooled 6 pot or 8 pot (YES 8 pistons really) callipers which you could have engineered to fit. They are used by the touring car boys.
It just depends how much you want to spend, bread & marmalade for 5 years would not be much fun.
Mike.
If you are really looking for the god of all brakes, AP do water cooled 6 pot or 8 pot (YES 8 pistons really) callipers which you could have engineered to fit. They are used by the touring car boys.
It just depends how much you want to spend, bread & marmalade for 5 years would not be much fun.
Mike.
21 September 1999, 06:58 PM
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Simon.
Yes, they really are that good! It's not just the stopping power though, it's the length of time you can drive without any fade whatsoever. I currently tend to brake fairly early at track days to ease the pressure, but would dearly love to brake late every time with no fade.
I haven't been in a car with any other system so I can offer no comparison.
Dave.
Well spotted!!
Stef.
Yes, they really are that good! It's not just the stopping power though, it's the length of time you can drive without any fade whatsoever. I currently tend to brake fairly early at track days to ease the pressure, but would dearly love to brake late every time with no fade.
I haven't been in a car with any other system so I can offer no comparison.
Dave.
Well spotted!!
Stef.
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21 September 1999, 09:10 PM
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Stef
That sounds like just the ticket. Thanks.
There is nothing worse than having to be a girl going into bends because you just can't trust your brakes.
Fade is my biggest problem.
Thanks for the advice.
Simon
That sounds like just the ticket. Thanks.
There is nothing worse than having to be a girl going into bends because you just can't trust your brakes.
Fade is my biggest problem.
Thanks for the advice.
Simon
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