RB5Caterham

Gonna book myself in to have this fitted on the fronts.

Anyone else had this and got summit interesting to say?

Cheers

Soapy Sam

Nothing interesting to say, but you won't regret it, the kit made a big difference on my MY99, restoring confidence in the brakes.

Well worth it IMHO

greasemonkey

Get the pads, lines and fluid by all means, but IMO you shouldn't touch the discs with a bargepole. They are still prone to warpage (if not moreso than a standard disc), and don't make enough of a difference to the way the car stops to be worth the pricetag. Serious waste of money.

Unless you're prepared to go for a separate disc/bell setup like the DBA 5000 series, or indeed a big brake kit, your best option for the discs is a pair of OE spec replacements from Quinton Hazell for about £35 each. They stop just as well as the Pagid discs, are extremely difficult to warp, and even if you do, you won't be worried about popping some new ones on if that's all they cost...

RB5Caterham

Cheers mate, just want to guage that I'm doing the right thing, if you know what I mean.

RB5Caterham

greasemonkey thanks for the reply, got me thinking

RB5Caterham

greasemonkey, sorry, what discs would you recommend then, for someone who doesnt want to buy a bigger kit?

Dont want to spend moeny on OE anyway which are okish.

Soapy Sam

Greasemonkey

You surprise me, but I'll take your word for it. Like many others on here, I have a lot of respect for your obvious detailed knowledge of Scoobs.

I've done about 15k since the discs etc. were fitted and I've had no problems at all, but I'm concerned that the discs are "prone to warpage". I'd not heard that before and I'll probably worry from now on...

So, you reckon that the improvement in feel and performance is down to the pads, lines and fluid. I wish I'd known that before I stumped up for the discs as well.....

You live and learn

Fatman

I've had the S/S Grp-N+ kit fitted, and it definitely improved braking ability compared with OE kit. No sign of warping so far (in use for, maybe 12 to 18 months). I found stopping power to have been improved by replacing the Pagid 421 pads with new EBC Redstuff.

John P

I would agree with all the comments previous, especially the thoughts from Greasemonkey. However, I have had the conversion and although I cannot compare to numerous setups or combinations I have had 12 months of what I feel to be an increase in braking capability. I have not had issues with warping and at times have competed in auto tests and a couple of 12 car rallies. I have not used them on track days so cannot comment. I would regard Greasemonkeys recommendations should he want to make any as a definate viable alternative.
Ps would like some recommendations for pad replacements when needed
Cheers

greasemonkey

The improvement in feel is primarily down to the lines and pads. The fluid then makes that feel consistent through the temperature range of the system.

At the end of the day the propensity for the discs to warp will depend to a large extent on how hard they're used. If you never get the Pagid discs hot, they probably won't warp, but then again, if you never get them that hot, there's probably no need to be spending out on an upgrade brake kit in the first place.

Had a couple of sets of these discs, and neither was on the car more than a thousand miles. There are more than a few similar anecdotal experiences here, and I know of at least one Pagid main dealer who won't sell them for this reason.

RB5C, if your current discs are in good nick, no reason not to stick with them. If/when the time does come, you can't go wrong with the QH OE replacements which you can get from www.sapmotorparts.com (part number is BDC5165). These will get obscenely (and I mean glowing bright red) hot and cool down again without distortion, and if they eventually do, as mentioned earlier, they're only £35 each, so who cares?

IMO the only aftermarket discs that are actually worth having in the standard 294mm size are the two piece disc/bell systems like the DBA 5000 series. Performance Braking in Monmouth were also working on a two piece system so it'd be worth giving them a ring (01600 713117) for details and pricing.

sillysi

From reading greasemonkeys posts I don't doubt his knowledge. Just my little bit of info for you, I had the kit on my WRX and did many trackdays and never had a problem with the discs. I made sure that i did a good warming down lap and everything was fine.

Si.

LeMans

Greasemonkey,

I was intrigued by your reply on the brake post regarding SAP motor parts.

Having looked at their website, I cannot believe the prices for OE replacement discs.

According to the site if I am reading it correctly, the prices for my 1994 WRX are front (BDC4413) £19.50 each and rear (BDC4604) £15.68 each. This means that with postage the cost will be £100 or under.

Is this right - Am I missing something - is there a catch ?.

My discs are scored a little and perhaps a little warped and although I use Pagid blue pads to improve them I could do with some replacements as I cannot really afford £1,500 for a decent set of four pot caliper/vented/drilled discs, etc.

Regards

Stu

Blairc

I`m also thinking of getting the Pagid Group N+ kit from ScoobySport and was hoping that someone could offer a review of this set up compared to a standard Scoob.

Cheers.

Fatman

I was very pleased with the improvement over the OE setup. However, I've subsequently changed the pads (to new formula EBC Redstuff) and, braking performance is - in my opinion - improved yet further. Others claimed better value for money elsewhere (see above).

greasemonkey

Sure. The pads, lines and fluid are fine, the discs are a complete waste of money.

You'd be better off buying the pads, lines and fluid on their own and either sticking with standard discs, or, if you want to upgrade the rotors too, spend the extra on a disc/bell system.

Blairc

Greasemonkey,

Sorry if I`m being a bit thick here but I`m still not up to speed with the black art that is brake selection. As far as I can work out I v`e got a few options open to me:

1. Purchase the Pagid Group N+ disks, Ferrodo DS2500 pads, up rated hoses and decent brake fluid – cost approx £450

2. Purchase DBA 5000 Red SR L/R disks (The DBA 5000 series is a DIRECT REPLACEMENT two-piece disc brake rotor, designed for drivers seeking the ultimate performance from their braking system. A replaceable performance disc is bolted to a central aluminium hat using high tensile bolts and lock nuts.) and the DS2500 Pads Goodridge Brakeline Kit Ferrodo dot 5.1 Brake Fluid – cost approx £660

3. Go for the 308mm Red Brembo 4 pot conversion available at Godspeed for £750

Could you give me a quick pro`s and cons of each system and tell me which one you`d go for. Also if you feel there is a better set up for under £750 could you also mention it.

greasemonkey

Need a little more info before I can really make a recommendation!

Firstly, what front brakes do you have on at the moment? Do you have the old two piston sliding caliper front brakes, or the later four pot design?

Secondly, what's your intended use, just enthusiastic road use, the occasional track day, or more concerted track use?

Thirdly, how much do you really want to spend?

Edited to add, fourthly, what wheels do you have on at the moment? Standard Subaru 16" or something else?

Blairc

Greasemonkey,

I`ve currently got a `99 RB5 WR Sport (17" alloys), not sure about the brake type that I currently have but whatever it is it doesn`t fill me with as much confidence as I would like and is standard.

I`m looking for some enthusiastic road driving with maybe a few track days but nothing serious.

At the most I`d like to spend £750. I`d rather spend a good bit of money now and save money in the long run because I decided that I want to make a further step up brake wise.

Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Chris.

greasemonkey

Hmm, so many options. I'd certainly rule out your option 1 as it stands, simply because the discs aren't worth the money.

If you really are only talking about occasional track days, what you could do is vary it slightly. Fit the braided lines and high temp fluid no matter what else you do.

Then, you could either stick with your existing discs if there's plenty of life left in them, or buy a new pair as suggested above for around £75.

With a set of pads like Mintex 1155, Pagid RS4-2.1, Ferodo DS2500 or EBC new Red (which I haven't tried yet, but people I trust seem to like), this'll be fine for enthusiastic road use.

If you want to take it on the track, swap the pads out before you go for something like Ferodo DS3000 or Pagid RS14.

If don't mind spending the money now, I'd suggest that your option 2 doesn't go far enough. The DBA 5000's are very good, but seeing as you have the space under your wheels to accommodate larger discs, you may as well use it.

Your 17" wheels will allow a 320-330mm disc, so while the Brembo kit is one option, it might also be worth talking to Godspeed about their kit that fits a bigger disc underneath the standard Subaru caliper.

Blairc

Greasemonkey,

Cheers for the advice, I really was starting to get a bit lost in all the options available. I think that the Godspeed 335mm subaru kit seems to be the best option with the braided hoses and high temp fluid. (offers the best compramise)

What pad would you recommend the Mintex 1144 or EBC Greenstuff?

Also what DOT of brake fluid do you recommend? should I just go straight for the 5.1 stuff?

Cheers for this help.

Chris.

Godspeed Brakes

iTrader: (259)

We dont supply the kit with EBC pads now , We offer them with Mintex M1144 or Ferodo DS2500 , The kit is the same price whichever pad you choose , £595 plus £10 delivery

Cheers Ian

Blairc

Ian,

How would you rate the 335mm brake upgrade that you provide? (compared to the other upgrades that you offer for approx the same price).

Is this the brake upgrade that you would recommend for a fast road (v.occasional track day use)? If not what would you go for?

Cheres,

Chris.

Godspeed Brakes

iTrader: (259)

I have tried our 335mm kit using the standard subaru 4 pots against the AP 330mm kit and our kit works better , our discs are a bigger diameter and they are much thicker , at 32mm thick opposed to 28mm , so the discs can take more heat , and the pads are much bigger than the AP shape pads.

There is nothing on the market for the same sort of cost that comes anywhere near the performance of this kit.

I know the doubting thomas's will come on here questioning that but just ask the customers on here with them fitted..

Cheers Ian

DBY

Chris I have Ians kit 335 cross drilled and grooved braided lines dot 5.1 fluid and ferodo pads 2500 and they are fantastic you will not look back if you fit this kit. Mine have covered 10,000 hard miles and work the same as when knew, pads are now half worn. There is also no cracking around the cross drilling and I do not use the car on the track before any one asks!!!

Just a happy punter

John

greasemonkey

Yes, I'd agree with that, Ian's kit is by far the best option on paper. The only thing to check (and I'm sure Ian will know the answer) is that this conversion offers sufficient clearance between the end of the caliper and the spokes of your wheels.

Beyond that, not sure whether he offers a grooved only alternative alongside the drilled and grooved discs, but if he did, grooved only would be my preference.

Wouldn't touch the "old" Greenstuff with a bargepole, awful pads. I gather the latest "AF44/78" compound is considerably better, but either way, I don't think either of these quite fits the bill.

With Ian's kit including custom oversize pads, you're going to be slightly more limited on compounds, but of the two he offers, Ferodo DS2500 is IME the better option of the two.

The DOT rating isn't the thing to look for with brake fluid, the temperature stability/boiling point is the most important factor. You won't go wrong with Castrol SRF (which, IIRC has a DOT4 rating).

Incidentally, with his conversion leaving around £150 of your original budget, it'd be well worth allocating that to a trusted local garage for fitting if you're not 100% confident DIY'ing your car's braking system. Fitting involves a bit of work, not least disassembling the calipers and flushing the fluid through the system, so you need to be sure (whether you do it yourself or not) that it's done right.

Godspeed Brakes

iTrader: (259)

As long as your wheels fit over the four pots now , then as you still use this caliper they will still fit

You can have the discs grooved , drilled or both , if you are going to do track days go for grooved only as you can get cracks around the holes , these crack shouldn't cause any problems but they could get bigger.

I can fit this kit for customers , I charge £95 including a good quality Dot 5:1 fluid , we flush the front and back with it

Cheers Ian

ozzy

Yes, Ian does. I have his grooved-only large kit on my car.

Stefan

RB5Caterham

Me again, original post person.

Looks like I'm going to go for the 335mm kit from Ian as well.

Good job I posted this as all your guys comments made me rethink.

I think this is the best choice for me.

Godspeed Brakes

iTrader: (259)

If you dont like the quality or the performance of this kit I will run naked throught bridgend town centre with a cabbage on my head

Blairc

Ian,

Just wondering what sort of lead time your looking at for getting the 335mm kit delivered?

Also a big thanks to Greasemonkey, ozzy and DBY for all their advice.

Thanks,

Chris.