marc_ely

Has anyone fitted one of these?

The kit looks great value with:
335mm X 32mm Rotors (HiSpec £110+ ea next set)
HiSPec Ali 6pot Monster Calipers with dust shields
Ferrodo DS2500 pads (FR-216 fitment / approx £80 next set)
Braided hoses
£1,170+

The only other setup that can compete for price/spec seems to be the StopTech 4pot setup. Replacement discs for this are over £200 each though.

Cheers,
Marc

ozzy

Mattel has these on his car. He said they are very good, but his judgement might be biase as TSL seem to own his cheque book

I need to replace my OEM discs/pads and have looked at lots of options. The Hi-Spec stuff looks very good VFM and I've heard good reports.

The comparable AP and Prodrive are very expensive to buy and replacement discs/pads cost a fortune.

Stefan

ozzy

Marc,

Do you plan on taking them on track? AP's are the best option if you're a track junkie. I haven't seen anyone on here that's fitted these kits and driven in anger on track.

Stefan

marc_ely

Yes I very much do want to go on track and that is the sole reason for upgrading. The standard setup is fine on the road IMHO but I boiled my fluid on my first trackday :-)

TSL claim that they are great on track and fitted to their own race cars - but then they would in all fairness.

There is so much choice in brakes it is difficult to see through the specs etc.

You take a big player like Brembo and you compare it to a lesser known brand like StopTech for example. The stuff looks equally beefy, they get similar results (magazine test) and yet the Brembos are 60% more expensive. Why? Brandname? Ultimately are we often talking about Levi versus Asda in the jeans wars? Err... lost the plot.

Marc

simo

marc,

ap6 pots mate, for the xtra 300 ish I would'nt give anything else a thought (& I should know! as I have been there & tried other set ups. Just check pads as these can cause problems as well, I've been told that ds2500's are not over good for track, ds3000s recommeded or pagids 42's. (change 3000s before/after track thou as no good for road use.

rgs Simon

P1Fanatic

Is the TSL deal £1170 all in? If so thats a lot cheaper than the AP Racing 6pots aint it (last time I looked £1,700-£1,800).

WRXBOB

Got this TSL on my car and it is excellent!
The DS2500's are great . . . DS3000 are too hard for normal road use so unless its only used on track forget them.(it even says on Ferodo's website NOT to use DS3000 for roads use)
I have used the DS2500's on track and they are brill, not had fade and wont use any other pad. Great for normal road use too as they are even better than the oem pads.

I had TSL fit me the kit and part exchanged my old calipers with them which brought the cost down even more! (my old oem discs/pads were scrap so it was only the 4pots that were worth anything and TSL gave me a very good price for them)

People rave about the AP 6pot kit, but its only the name they are paying for!
IMHO even if the AP's were the same price I would still go for the TSL setup

marc_ely

Blimey... I come on here for clear non contradictory advise and all I get is opposites! Such is life and its what I expected. Thanks for the posts guys.

The TSL kit is £1374.inc direct from TSL
The best price I've seen for the AP 6pots is £1750.inc from JapInnovations.

There is not just the £400 difference I am looking at though, but also the cost of the next set of disks/pads etc.
The Prodrive/Alcon setup sounds reasonable until you have to put new disk/pads on - £678 was a figure I saw on here recently. Ouch.

Whatever I choose I will cover the choice on my website:
http://www.impreza-p1.org.uk

Cheers,
Marc

marc_ely

Well after much deliberation I have gone for the TSL 6pot setup.
They use it on their Rally Cars and the HiSpec parts are well known to be good quality.

I tabulated a lot of the choices and I have stuck them on my website if anyone is interested.

http://www.impreza-p1.org.uk/brake_choices.xls

I will be updating the website with more info once I have fitted them :-)

Cheers,
Marc

ozzy

Hi Marc,

Let us know how you get on with the TSL kit. Will be making a final decision myself in about a weeks time and would like to hear first-hand once you've got them on your car.

If you wanted non-contradictory advice, you came to the wrong place. Like you say, that's life and the whole nature of an open (ish) public forum. There's not many folk on here that have tried all the various kits to give anyone a balanced opinion; one or two maybe, but not 5 or 6.

Stefan

P.S. Great site BTW

BigMikeyBoy

Hi folks, just thought i would add my comments to the discussion. I have purchased a set of their brakes as well and am waiting for them to be delivered as they didnt have any in stock when i ordered them last week. They will be going on to my WRSport RB5, was contemplating on the Prodrive set up but these are far better value and they will be alot better than the standard 4 pots i have on it at the moment.
Will let you know how i get on with them!

Mikey

WRXBOB

I have had AP 6pots on my previous car(non scooby) and they were very good.

I found the standard 4 pots /294mm discs on my 02wrx to be ok ish for normal road use but fitted DS2500 pads just after the 1k service and it made a BIG improvement to the brakes with no more fading on fast road driving and also good when used on track,and they were better than oem pads ina morning when stone cold. Only problem was that the oem disc's couldnt handle / dissapate(spelling) the heat quick enough and eventually suffered from cracking.
I had contemplated the AP 6pots but felt they were overpriced and didnt come with the DS2500 pads. Replacement pads and disc's were also expensive.
I had seen the TSL 6pots and thought they looked good, and spoke to a couple of guys that had them on their scoobs and they were very pleased with them.
I went to TSL with the thought of having their group N discs and new DS2500 pads fitted and then having their 6pot kit at a later date. When I was down at TSL I had a good look at the 6pot kit, checked out price of replacement discs(rotors) and of pads, and found they were very reasonable!
I had a chat with Trouser and he came up with a deal that I couldnt turn down for the 6pots and so had them fitted. The best decision I've made . . . brilliant brakes

If you are thinking of selling your old 4pots have a word with TSL cos they bought mine off me for a good price which made the brakes even cheaper. If you already have braided hoses they will knock them off the kit/price as the fittings are the same as the oem caliper.
One thing Paul (Trouser) will do is haggle, and its good fun too!

One word of warning to anyone buying an fitting themselves,IIRC the pads supplied are a very tight fit in the caliper an U may need to file the paint off one end to give a little more working clearance. And that is the only fault I can find with them, if you can call 10 seceonds with a file a fault!

Bob

ScoobyK

I did a lot of investigating before upgrading, and also went down the 6pot TSL / Hispec route. Very good value for money, and, it almost goes without saying, top quality and certainly have saved my skin on a few occassions

marc_ely

Well mine have arrived and they look absolutely top notch. The calipers are nice and meaty and the disk thickness is well... thick.

I don't know how people post pictures in here (it says HTML is not allowed and the BBS syntax and smilies links are dead).

So here's the website:
<a href="http://www.impreza-p1.org.uk/brake_choices.htm">Brake Choices</a>

Now all I need is some good weather and some time to fit them.

Marc

ozzy

Here ya go.

Whole Kit


Caliper


Disc






Stefan

[Edited by ozzy - 11/21/2002 7:41:29 PM]

marc_ely

Cheers mate.
Shame they look a bit blurry.

Marc

ozzy

Aye, think you need a few more drinks to steady yer hand

Some clickable links for your website

Brake Upgrades
Brake Comparison Spreadsheet

ozzy

Marc,

Could I ask a favour? You weighed the new parts, but when you remove your existing bits could you weigh them too?

I think people would benefit from knowing the difference in weight between the TSL kit and std 4-pots with OEM disks/pads.

Stefan

marc_ely

I certainly will weigh the subaru 4pot kit. TSL said the overall weight is LESS with their setup so we shall see if that was just advertising speil or truth!

The alloy bells are gorgeous. Err... I'll get my coat.

If I get time I will re-do the pictures on a tripod :-)

Marc

Fizz

iTrader: (1)

I bought direct from Hi-spec... I got the four pots for 990 fitted!!! hispec

[Edited by Fizz - 11/22/2002 6:50:26 PM]

WRXBOB

I paid £1100 fully fitted inc vat for the TSL 6 pot kit...

I let them keep my old brakes... discs and pads were scrap and the calipers needed a good clean and repainting.

I'm happy with the deal I got!

Bob

Fizz

iTrader: (1)

Sold my discs and calipers (only 1200 miles) so over all payed not very much!!!

marc_ely

FAO: Ozzy
I have weighed the old subaru brakes and updated the website with those included.
According to my bathroom scales (ok so not mega accurate) the old subaru 4pots are LIGHTER than the TSL/HiSpec 6pots by about 1/2KG per corner.
As it's so close I will call it a dead heat.

Marc
http://www.impreza-p1.org.uk/

ozzy

Thanks Marc.

Glad to hear you've almost sorted your brakes; keep yer chin up

Stefan

SCOSaltire

ozzy
u going for the tsl ones?

ive been putting it off.. but its getting a tad scary with the amount of cracks on the oem disks now.

toying between pagid disks only, or some other bigger make.
dont think ill go prodrive, coz they are too expensive for disks...
scoobysport kad are next, or ap racing
both expensive
so might go tsl too

ozzy

Hi Phil,

Yeah, like you I've been putting it off for too long and it doesn't help with Xmas and a two week holiday in the same month Was planning on climbing Kilimanajaro, but with all the trouble in Kenya I might give it a few months

AF Noble told me I had 500 miles left (tops), but I've done of few thousand on them - oops

I've looked at loads of options inc. AP's, Prodrive/Alcons, Hi-Spec, KAD, StopTech, Wilwood, Brembo, Godspeed, you name it really.

The AP's are supposed to be the best, but I haven't met any people who have the knowledge of any of the other kits to back that statement up. Their reasoning seems to be based on AP kits being on Ferrari's or WRC cars, but it ain't the same setup as the road kits so doesn't mean it's any better or worse than another kit - without comparing them on the road.

The Prodrive option is just too expensive for what you get and I've heard that they're not too hot. Someone even mentioned preferring the std STI 4-pots over his. The Dealer replacement costs are enough to choke a horse and even Godspeed's or TSL's replacement bell/disc setup isn't too cheap either.

The Stoptech kit is pretty cheap, but replacement discs are a tad expensive (not AP expensive mind you).

I like the look, price and recommendations of the Hi-Spec kit and was going to buy direct from them, but I might go with the TSL setup instead. They are basically the same kit, but TSL provide pads, braided lines and fluid in there kit.

Marc has a decent spreadsheet showing replacement costs and comparisons of various kits on his website.

From that, the TSL's really shine and looks like they'll get my monies.

As for the KAD's; well I ain't paying £2K for a set of brakes, period.

Stefan

SCOSaltire

the price of the kads are scary

wish they were a bit cheaper.. would deffo go for them.. not sure just now...

i cant find a place that sells ap 4 pots (non drilled).. maybe i aint looking hard enough...

nearer 1k is better... so tsl are favourite probably...

then again... will i go on track... lol ... i myself again

ozzy

Phil, you're thinking too much

You can get the AP's from Motorsport World for just over £1500 all-in. They also have a deal with GGR for £1450 all-in. It's the same AP kit, but with GGR's own bell's and mounting brackets so there's a bit of money saving. They also do the AP 6-pots for £1675 all-in.

I spoke to David Reid about the AP's and he said there just ins't any margin in the kits and AP are pretty strict on pricing, so you just can't get them cheap anywhere. Unless you know someone who will sell them at trade and forget the VAT

Any of the big brake kits will do for the track. The majority of them use the Ferodo DS2500 pads which are the main component for stopping, the rest is down to how well the caliper performs and how the discs cope with the heat.

If the Alcons can handle Knockhill, I'd say any of them will too.

If you're unsure, I wouldn't spend a serious amount of money on the expensive stuff. Like I say, if you ask anyone on a particulat kit, 99.99% of replies will tell you they're the dogs bo!!ocks simple coz the can't compare them to anything else.

Stefan

Diesel

I put Stop Tech brakes on mine ready for Bedford trackday

I swopped the standard Axxis pads for Pagid Blacks for the track - and there is no way I'm putting the 'road' pads back on.

They didn't have much hard work unfortunately, so I can not comment on perf properly. They certainly look very well made though, and good value at £1175.

I thought they would bite harder than the standard set up, and they do, but not initially - they do not feel very progressive at light pedal pressures, but bite hard at higher pedal pressures. This is slighly dissapointing as it is not as linear as the original set up.

There is a very demanding bedding in procedure which is near impossible to achieve on our congested roads unf... Do other kits require 6 almost full on stops from 80 mph, and then a cool down to ambient temp?

D

Pete Croney

You wouldn't have to. The 330mm kit 6 pot kit is £1525 +vat, including Pagid RS42-1 pads

Its fully dust sealed and has anti pad knock off technology in the calipers. Its 0.5kg lighter per side than the AP 6 pots and nothing performs better.

On the other hand if you did have £2k to spend you could get our 372mm kit