SS Brembo/AP 4 pot or SS KAD 6 pot
14 June 2002, 04:52 AM
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I'm trying to decide which brake kit to go with for 16in(OE) & 17in(P1's)for my 02 WRX wagon. The SS Brembo/AP 4 pot or SS KAD 6 pot kits are not common in the States so I figured that the experts at Scoobynet would lead me to the answer.
Fast road and occasional track days are primary uses.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks/Matt
Fast road and occasional track days are primary uses.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks/Matt
14 June 2002, 09:06 AM
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Matt, I have not seen the KAD 6 pot calipers, but have been told they are nice.
I can recommend the AP 4 pots. I think in the US they are marketed by Stilen. Used with the right pad setup, these are very good for both road and track.
Pads look at something like Performance Friction or Ferodo.
Dan
I can recommend the AP 4 pots. I think in the US they are marketed by Stilen. Used with the right pad setup, these are very good for both road and track.
Pads look at something like Performance Friction or Ferodo.
Dan
14 June 2002, 09:09 AM
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For some reason, the AP kit I have (from Scoobymania) has plastered over it in several places that the kit is not 'allowed' (can't remember the exact phrase) to be fitted/used in the USA
Anyone any ideas why?
Anyone any ideas why?
14 June 2002, 09:37 AM
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Martin
The AP kit is not allowed to be sold, or re-sold, for use in the US for product liability reasons.
Matt The KAD has superceded the Brembo AP kit that we did. It also uses AP discs, but the caliper design is significantly better and lighter.
Whilst we will not be selling the Brembo AP kit anymore, we will continue to stock discs and pads for customer support.
The AP kit is not allowed to be sold, or re-sold, for use in the US for product liability reasons.
Matt The KAD has superceded the Brembo AP kit that we did. It also uses AP discs, but the caliper design is significantly better and lighter.
Whilst we will not be selling the Brembo AP kit anymore, we will continue to stock discs and pads for customer support.
14 June 2002, 09:58 AM
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Interesting...so AP won't (or can't afford to?) stand by their product if it goes wrong to such an extent that the allegedly infamous American liability culture swings into action and tries to take them to the cleaners???
I haven't really thought about this before, but I'm a bit intrigued...
..what would happen in the UK if my APs fail in some way (say caliper leaks under abnormally heavy fluid pressure) caused by me trying, and failing, to avoid an accident?..and the accident investigators find out and the liability bods come after me? Who do I go to - my insurers? ... who then would go to AP?
I haven't really thought about this before, but I'm a bit intrigued...
..what would happen in the UK if my APs fail in some way (say caliper leaks under abnormally heavy fluid pressure) caused by me trying, and failing, to avoid an accident?..and the accident investigators find out and the liability bods come after me? Who do I go to - my insurers? ... who then would go to AP?
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14 June 2002, 12:06 PM
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In the UK, if it were proved beyond all reasonable doubt that the brakes had failed, then AP's PL insurers would have to pay out. But the UK courts would likely award the cost of repair, associated costs and some (compared to US awards) relatively minor amount of compensation for any injuries. If someone was killed, the payout would be unlikely to exceed £100,000 for the death.
Compare this to the woman who was driving here new Porsche Turbo, lost control and crashed. At the time, she was drunk. Although she only suffered minor injuries, she sued Porsche claiming that the massive power rise as the turbo came in, caused the accident and that she hadn't been warned that this could/would happen. She settled out of court for $7,000,000. An extreme example, I know, but it probably wiped out Porsche's entire US profits for years.
I have no doubt that the reason all US cars have the statement "objects in this mirror may be closer than they appear" on all passenger side wing mirrors, is also there after a court case.
The way that AP's resellers, and ours, protect themselves and their suppliers is by insisting customers sign a disclaimer saying that they will only use the brakes for racing purposes, at their own risk, and they will not use them on the road. The alternative would be that brake prices would double, just to pay the insurance premiums.
Compare this to the woman who was driving here new Porsche Turbo, lost control and crashed. At the time, she was drunk. Although she only suffered minor injuries, she sued Porsche claiming that the massive power rise as the turbo came in, caused the accident and that she hadn't been warned that this could/would happen. She settled out of court for $7,000,000. An extreme example, I know, but it probably wiped out Porsche's entire US profits for years.
I have no doubt that the reason all US cars have the statement "objects in this mirror may be closer than they appear" on all passenger side wing mirrors, is also there after a court case.
The way that AP's resellers, and ours, protect themselves and their suppliers is by insisting customers sign a disclaimer saying that they will only use the brakes for racing purposes, at their own risk, and they will not use them on the road. The alternative would be that brake prices would double, just to pay the insurance premiums.
14 June 2002, 06:59 PM
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Knowlesy at SS advised yesterday that 6 or 7 sets of the KAD 6 pots have already been installed with Pete's going on shortly.
Are any Scoobynet members included in this group? If so, your review would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks/Matt
Are any Scoobynet members included in this group? If so, your review would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks/Matt
14 June 2002, 10:11 PM
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Most of the business my company does (Lloyd's reinsurance broker) is derived from the States - much of it product liability and medical malpractice cover placed in Lloyd's. You would not believe some of the awards the US courts make.....
Kid had been drinking, jumped into the water off a breakwater, hit an underwater rock, result one quadraplegic. Sued the City of New Orleans. Result? USD 7 million damages award. He was pissed when he dived in, but the basis of the claim/award was that elsewhere on the breakwater there were warning signs not to swim/dive, but where he dived in there were not any signs, so it must have been safe to dive, therefore the City of NO were at fault......
I love the US judicial system and contingency fee awards.....
Kid had been drinking, jumped into the water off a breakwater, hit an underwater rock, result one quadraplegic. Sued the City of New Orleans. Result? USD 7 million damages award. He was pissed when he dived in, but the basis of the claim/award was that elsewhere on the breakwater there were warning signs not to swim/dive, but where he dived in there were not any signs, so it must have been safe to dive, therefore the City of NO were at fault......
I love the US judicial system and contingency fee awards.....
16 June 2002, 10:22 PM
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I think the best one i read was a guy broke into someones house while they were on holiday and managed to lock himself in their garage. He couldn't get out so was stuck in their for about a week. He sued the family and won compensation!!
17 June 2002, 02:47 PM
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there was also the woman who sued her microwave manufacturer for not putting in the instructions that placing animals in the microwave was dangerous.
Her cat was soaked from the rain so she put him in the microwave!
I would say it is just americans who are that stupid but did anyone read the transcript from big brother about that girls knowledge of geography?
Her cat was soaked from the rain so she put him in the microwave!
I would say it is just americans who are that stupid but did anyone read the transcript from big brother about that girls knowledge of geography?
18 June 2002, 09:33 AM
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Another story is of a woman who, when she got pregnant, sued the company making the contraceptive jelly she used. The instructions didn't warn that the contraceptive jelly was ineffective when eaten on toast !!!!
Chris.
Chris.
18 June 2002, 01:01 PM
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I don't think America has a higher quota of stupid people than any other nation.
Its just that being stupid beyond belief doesn't get taken into consideration when US courts award damages.
Its just that being stupid beyond belief doesn't get taken into consideration when US courts award damages.
19 June 2002, 04:07 AM
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It should be pointed out that for every award you read about the lawyers receive at least a third (usually more)of the settlement. And since almost all our politicians are lawyers no financial limit of liability will be written into law in the near future.
On the bright side, we do not have your high tax brackets or VAT. In addition, we may even go further in the World Cup than England.
Anyways, how about the brakes? Any more opinons?
Matt
On the bright side, we do not have your high tax brackets or VAT. In addition, we may even go further in the World Cup than England.
Anyways, how about the brakes? Any more opinons?
Matt
19 June 2002, 08:54 AM
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Hi Matt
Your surely not suggesting that politicians are corrupt?
An England v USA final would be great, your boys have done really well so far
On the brakes, KADs are currently the most advanced Subaru brakes available, incorporating some very clever internal features to eliminate pad knoack off, a common problem with big disc kits. You won't find better.
Your surely not suggesting that politicians are corrupt?
An England v USA final would be great, your boys have done really well so far
On the brakes, KADs are currently the most advanced Subaru brakes available, incorporating some very clever internal features to eliminate pad knoack off, a common problem with big disc kits. You won't find better.
19 June 2002, 05:25 PM
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Hello Pete,
I would be shocked if the USA got past Germany but since Korea beat Italy anything is possible.
How about for daily driving? I do not want to hear squealing everytime I use the brakes. What pads & lines are included in the KAD kit.
Thanks & Best Regards/Matt
I would be shocked if the USA got past Germany but since Korea beat Italy anything is possible.
How about for daily driving? I do not want to hear squealing everytime I use the brakes. What pads & lines are included in the KAD kit.
Thanks & Best Regards/Matt
19 June 2002, 06:54 PM
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Forgot to add re usage... the pads are rated by Pagid as fast road, although every track day I have done in the past 14 months has been with these. They have better cold friction than the RS42 (blues) but are still good for 750degC. Consequently, they are silent in use, ultra low dust levels and have a very good life.
What dust you do get comes off with a sponge and I rarely use wheel cleaner.
What dust you do get comes off with a sponge and I rarely use wheel cleaner.
Never failed me yet, even after 45 mins solid track work. Just lurve outbreaking into corners 
20 June 2002, 09:13 PM
#27
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Jesus Christ
Will all you stop developing products that damage my credit card
Now will these fit under my 17" Oz Super L's or are they only going to need 18"'s
Or am I going to have to consider buying those very nice wheels I saw recently
Phil
Will all you stop developing products that damage my credit card
Now will these fit under my 17" Oz Super L's or are they only going to need 18"'s
Or am I going to have to consider buying those very nice wheels I saw recently
Phil
03 July 2002, 05:00 AM
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Pete,
I'm still undecided about the Brembo/AP or SS KAD 6 pot. From my conversation with Ken the KAD's sound superior but my concern is about parts availability in the future. Availability of parts in USA or anywhere else for the Brembo's should not be a problem. What about the KAD's? SS will probably stock parts but what if KAD is out of business in a few years then what? Please provide some details about KAD the company.
FYI, KAD's website is not very informative.
Matt
I'm still undecided about the Brembo/AP or SS KAD 6 pot. From my conversation with Ken the KAD's sound superior but my concern is about parts availability in the future. Availability of parts in USA or anywhere else for the Brembo's should not be a problem. What about the KAD's? SS will probably stock parts but what if KAD is out of business in a few years then what? Please provide some details about KAD the company.
FYI, KAD's website is not very informative.
Matt