This thread has been redesignated for the discussion of the debacle that has become the Prodrive Tour. Go ahead.

 

Thanks a lot for the invite NOT

 

I really hoped we wouldn't get that sort of response and just another reason why this is the last event I shall probably be organising for the club, apart from the Blyton trackdays. I came very close to going on someone else's tour last week, but the places were filled before I could commit, and if I had then you would have been welcome to my place Paul. I have also tried my best to publicise one other club tour which had places available and the open day on the 29-30th which is open to all. The club list for the NBO was in excess of 50 IIRC, and it is Prodrive whom limit the attendance to 15. 15 into 50 is difficult.

 

I think the issue is in the way that this has been done.
Had it been an open thread with the facts made clear from the beginning then I don't think there would have been a problem. It does all seem to have been done a bit underhand, and not in the way that most would have expected.

BTW, this is the first I have heard of this. I have had no email or text informing me of when this was going ahead, and as such will not be able to make it on the 12th. Please give my place to someone else.

 

Andy, I have sent several PM's to all involved and you were amongst the 1st to be informed when I originally got confirmation of the booking, knowing the date right from the outset. It was decided between Al, you and me that we would deliberate the most eligable candidates and contact them discretely at first so as not to create a bunfight, although the deliberations were between Al & I, without you. TBH I fully expected that whenever it was announced that some of those who were to be disappointed would express their frustrations. I apologise if I have delayed posting until today, but there was no malice or bad intent in my actions. Remember, it was me who did all the groundwork on this right from the start, so why would I want to sabotage it on behalf of the club, its members or myself ? I'm also sorry that you cannot make it, as a long standing member with great commitment your place on this trip was never in doubt. I shall offer it to the next reserve forthwith.

 

I thought we all were members,not just a select few by pm only.This aint the way to do things not when u are in a CLUB?

 

Paul, you are more than welcome to nominate yourself for the vacant position of Events Secretary if you feel you can do the job better. Please don't see this as me taking my ball home either, as Al will confirm that this move has been on the cards for several weeks. There had to be some process of selection, and we knew full well that due to the limited numbers that there would be some disappointed. Several people have declined the offer and if it is any consolation you are the very next reserve. If Dave Carter decides to attend the open day then you will be given the opportunity. Al & I could see no fairer way than to try and make an executive decision based on fair criteria. The initial 10 or so places were instantly filled with long-standing high input members, leaving very few to give to newer people and the more transient members. As I said earlier, I expected there to be frustrations but I have made every effort to be as fair in the decisions as possible, and to highlight as many other opportunities for club members to attend one way or another.

 

My inbox must have been full (for a change )

Don't recall that, but my memory's crap, so I'm not denying it.

True

Wednesdays are just about the only night I can't make, as Ella has regular commitments with *******

With hindsight (a wonderful thing, eh? ) it would have perhaps been more democratic to draw names from a hat, bucket, ashtray, etc. to decide the places.

The club is still relatively young, and issues such as this are inevitably going to crop up from time to time. What we must ALL do is to learn from them and take on board opinions, thoughts, expressions, suggestions and ideas.

If you read my original post again, I am simply pointing out how things appear from the majority of member's point of view.

And this IS the first I've heard of this. As I have already said, I may well have been made aware of the date, but if that's the case then I've forgotten. My fault! Upon hearing of certain members recieving PMs or texts informing them thet they were going I assumed that I'd drawn the short straw. As it happens the date is not good for me anyhow.

This is all getting a little too serious. I'm off for a pint or 4

TO EVERYONE...

Have a good weekend, let's hope England win, and that we have good weather for Sunday. Above all, at the end of the day, we own, run and enjoy the SECOND best car in the world


Sticky

 

Just to add, before I shoot off to the pub...

I am sorry to hear that you are no longer going to be the events organiser. May I be among the first to thank you for four (or is it five? Need to count my tyre mountain...) fantastic trackdays and some great runs. I understand that your work patterns aren't exactly 'compatible' with the majority, but no-one would expect you to alter your shift patterns (and lose a load of salary) just for the club

For anyone considering stepping forward... It's not a job to be taken lightly, I for one certainly wouldn't want it, but then I have enough trouble organising my own life on a day-to-day basis.

Right... pub.

 

Thanks Andy. I shall continue to organise the Blyton trackdays for as long as people are willing to attend. This was always my baby and I would like to keep it going for as long as possible. I really didn't want to announce it on this thread and sour the tone of my last event, but under the circumstances it slipped out. I'll post more formally shortly.

 

Get some work done

 

Aaaaaaaaawwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!! You swore ! I'm tellin'

 

Not sure what I can add. But I'll try.

I agree that hindisght is wonderful thing and maybe a draw would have been better. It may have caused other unforseen issues. What I can say however, is that the current members list is organised into coloured bands that separate the members into categories in the hope of eliminating this sort of problem. The list wasn't ready at the time and was setup because of the issues that were experienced in selecting the people for the Prodrive places.

Is it fair that we categorise people? Select 10 as an appropriate number of time someone should visit before getting another band? probably not... why not 5? 20? 30?

Paul's right in that the club should operate without cliques and without a secret membership.... I'm continually proud to say that it doesn't... this is why it's so bloody good...

Dave spent a lot of time agonising over this and I supported him in his detailed look at members, their time served, input, value and host of other criteria.... apart from the random draw which was discussed.. I agreed that this seemed the best way. Dave also made the judgement call on keeping it underwraps until the initial tranche were contacted... was the best policy? I've no idea as making it open may have added problems...

I would like to add that it certainly wasn't handled badly, unfairly or inproperly.. Dave did it as a long standing events sec with a great record and with as much fairness as possible. Maybe not perfect, as Dave may agree, but in the best way possible.

I spoke to Dave at length last night about his decision and I'm pleased that the trackday will remain under his control as they are always a superb, cheap and enjoyable day....

Mick's stepped forward and took up some of the slack that Dave rightly spotted had been around for while as his work pattern didn't work with the increase in events that are now coming thick and fast... Anyone remember not so long ago when the main event was the monthly meet and Martin was asking for a mid monther????

But the club is moving fast (aprt from the Evo section ) and benefits greatly from people stepping up and organising something... You want to do something??? Then organise it.. The fact that we don't have a proper committe means that the club freeflows where the members want it. This is definately the best and most exciting way... but when an external party says.... 'sorry mate only 15 allowed' and you know 25 want to go..... then we need some yardstick to make sure it gets handled fairly...

Definately worth some discussion if you feel there's a better way......

So discuss...

 

From someone who Didn't expect to be picked / Couldn't go due to work / Wasn't all that bothered about going (ME that is ), I do also feel it would have more democratic for the names to have been "drawn" etc (I don't envy Al and Dave for the task they undertook to pick out names from an evergrowing list of members ).

Perhaps I shouldn't even be posting a reply here, but hey...Isn't that what this is all about...We can't always agree, that would be boring

BTW, Al...Where you late leaving work today or was I early?

 

Hi sorry to hear all the agro but if anyone is interested pro drive are doing the same event where all [proceeds are going to children charity it is on sat 29 and sun 30th july if anyones intersted i am going its only a tenner anyone welcome let me know or book on line on the link below should be good day

jim
http://www.prodrive.com/defaultflash.asp?M=1&SM=457

 

However random and apparently fair a draw may seem, would it be fair if, purely for example, Scott (skywalker23) whom attended his first WYIOC meet last night had been drawn and Al hadn't

Thanks for that Jim. I had publicised this both on this, and its own thread. If I didn't work weekends I'd go on that one myself to free up more space.

 

All members of the same club imo...

 

What time? Where? I waved to a few scoobs tonight.. but failed to recognise you...

 

You didn't see me...But I did you

You were just turning left at the Angel onto the A650...

 

if anyone wants to go on the 29th or 30th july let me know and hey lets look forward to a hot weekend at thorsby

jim

 

Ahh.. defo me.. late finish due to my trip on Sunday..
Have to keep your money safe you know..

Plus I was listening to the match..

 

I'm sure you'd be impressed if your boss said that after giving the 3 weeks in trainee the managers position after your many years of hard work and commitment. I realise that this is social, not professional, but decisions have to be made. I really wish I hadn't had to make these, and am glad I won't be making them in the future.

 

Ladies Gentlemen

Paul I can only sympathize with your disappointment. Friendship aside I know how passionate you are about the Impreza, to a level beyond most of us or me for sure.
The budget you have exhausted purely on engine modification alone to gain the power from your car even takes my breath away

I know how much Paul wanted to attend and know for a fact he would take more from the day than even me.

The list

I would of done it differently, easy for me to say, but at the risk of offending people there are names on there that I would of put below that of Paul’s, and be able to justify the decision on attendance of events alone!

Seriously the club is about actually turning up!! To be frank, its all well and good posting reasons and excuses for regularly not coming to the events and meets, if we all did this we would not be (the best) active car club, we would be an active internet club.

This said, it is really really difficult to organise events and try and get it right, some one will always be disappointed when the interest out ways the availability.

David I certainly wont criticize your organisational skills, everyone in the club, me for one, is certainly thankful you have been at the reigns of events organisation over the years. It’s a difficult and to be honest a thankless task. When it all goes well everyone ends up parked on the club stand or enjoying the day out, without any personal thanks, but wow betide if someone is disappointed.

I really am sorry you feel you need to give up your position of events organiser, as you have done a Stirling job.. hats off to you mate sincerely

oh oh… and I agree with Sticky more free time.. Means more Blytons

 

It may be better to move this excellent debate to the 'Events sec position' thread.

I feel we have a ways to go to get everyone's opinion and to reach a point where there's a group of people willing to keep the voluntary work going for the rest to enjoy the fruits of...
The club is growing and we're having to manage it.. simple as that.

 

If I may dare to suggest that any debates on this subject remain on here, and I shall start a new thread for tour attendees to discuss the days plans etc.

 

Fortunatly the SMACS have yet to post a limit on an event, although the NBO was getting close as everyone wanted to be on the stand In case we ever do have a limit though, and Andy_s is organising our own trip to Prodrive as I type, then my ingenious system of attendance will swing into action. Since our first drive out, and subsequent meet, in January, I've been keeping a record on what everyone has attended. Simply the more you've attended, the more chance you'll get to come on a limited place trip. So say we've got space for 10 people, and 12 want to come, the 10 with the most attendance get to come on the trip.
It's also going to go towards a cup at xmas meal time
Hope you guys sort it out, see you all thursday.

(coming to one of our meets doesn't qualify you as a smacs member until you get a badge )

 

I would have thought the person who buys the most footie tickets gets picked first..

 

Chris, this is effectively the process Al & I attempted to implement, only without the formal records. I suppose the fact that it is down to opinions rather than fact leaves it open to criticism but I feel it was the only way. Whichever way people were chosen, the unfortunate ones would always feel badly done by. As I said earlier, if it had been a draw and some of our hardest working members had been omitted it would not have been acceptable. I could not have considered a policy that would see people such as Al, Sticky, Mick or even myself excluded from this rare and unique event in favour potentially of someone whom could have possibly attended just one event and may well disappear before the next. This does happen, often, as people come along and say hello and then forget all about it the next month, or decide it's not for them. No system would have been ideal, I simply chose the system I believed would ensure hard work and commitment didn't go unrewarded, but consciously made places available to relatively new members whom in a short time have shown promise to be valued and active club participants in the future. I only had good intentions from the outset, and thus I find the criticisms hard to bear but fully understand their foundation.

 

Could we perhaps discuss implimenting a similar system?

If something like that had been in place, and everyone was aware of it, then surely there could have been no argument.

I realise that Al's thread lists members based on their attendance to a certain extent, but perhaps we should start keeping more detailed records?

But then, we are perhaps not as organised as the SMACS, and that is IN NO WAY meant to be a criticism, I love the informality of how we work, and certainly wouldn't want things to change and for us to become some regimented effort with the equivalent of a school register taken at each and every meet.

Just another thing to consider.

Having said all the above, I really think it's about time we had a proper, sit-down AGM to get to the bottom of this and other issues. Not necessarily at a pub. I could possibly get the use of my local sports centre hall for a couple of hours one night. It would obviously be beneficial to us to get as many bodies there as possible, so the first hurdle would be arranging the most suitable date.

 

there is that killa, good point