Investment in better handling - priorities
29 November 1999, 10:34 PM
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So, if I wanted to buy myself a Christmas present - you can help me.
STI V with 16in wheels and S01s.
As with all STis it is a little twitchy, but mostly very entertaining.
To make the car even better how should I prioritise from your wealth of experiences...
Suggestions please, eg Leda, or 17in MIMS/S-02s, or Full Powerflex kit and ALK.
Prizes for the winner of the best suggestion.
First prize a lap with Stef at Donington, second prize two laps (sorry Stef, couldn't resist it LOL
)
Cheers,
David
[This message has been edited by Rannoch (edited 29-11-1999).]
STI V with 16in wheels and S01s.
As with all STis it is a little twitchy, but mostly very entertaining.
To make the car even better how should I prioritise from your wealth of experiences...
Suggestions please, eg Leda, or 17in MIMS/S-02s, or Full Powerflex kit and ALK.
Prizes for the winner of the best suggestion.
First prize a lap with Stef at Donington, second prize two laps (sorry Stef, couldn't resist it LOL
)Cheers,
David
[This message has been edited by Rannoch (edited 29-11-1999).]
30 November 1999, 10:53 AM
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David,
I recently had the ALK fitted with rear sway bar links.
It has made a HUGE difference and the car is much better to drive now. I have a 94 WRX so you will have different springs, anti-roll bars etc.
Also as you have an STI, you do not need the sway bar links - a similar part is fitted as standard apparently.
I would suggest re-phrasing the question to "what shall I buy along with the ALK ?"
Thanks
Gavin
P.S. Has anyone else noticed that the ALK seems to amplify the vibration of the engine fan when stationary....or is it just me?
I recently had the ALK fitted with rear sway bar links.
It has made a HUGE difference and the car is much better to drive now. I have a 94 WRX so you will have different springs, anti-roll bars etc.
Also as you have an STI, you do not need the sway bar links - a similar part is fitted as standard apparently.
I would suggest re-phrasing the question to "what shall I buy along with the ALK ?"
Thanks
Gavin
P.S. Has anyone else noticed that the ALK seems to amplify the vibration of the engine fan when stationary....or is it just me?
30 November 1999, 03:15 PM
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Hi David,
Properly setup (and run-in) Leda C (possibly B, talk to PC at SS) should make you a happy bunny.
Just make sure you fit the suitcase under the bonnet before they corner weigh it!
Moray
(No wonder your car had problems starting up in the morning, that mushroom you fed it looked decidedly green! )
Properly setup (and run-in) Leda C (possibly B, talk to PC at SS) should make you a happy bunny.
Just make sure you fit the suitcase under the bonnet before they corner weigh it!
Moray
(No wonder your car had problems starting up in the morning, that mushroom you fed it looked decidedly green!
)
30 November 1999, 03:57 PM
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I would prioritise in this order in order of expense 'cos the cheapest (bushes) can make the most difference.
1) geometry check - Prodrive settings
2) Powerflex bushes - no need for all bushes to be replaced, especially if the car is fairly new but do those that get most stress - AR bars and front wishbone etc
3) ALK - amazing difference with no other changes - and relatively inexpensive. When you do this replace the forward front wishbone bush with Powerflex - the ALK effectively replaces the rear front wishbone bush - don't replace this rear one twice....
4) Suspension - Leda B or C. My old MY96 had prodrive suspension on 16's - brilliant
5) AR bar drop links from MRT - is you get these then you won't need the Powerflex bushes. [I know the STi has solid links at the front anyway - I believe the back as the same old plastic ones as UK cars - I know the 22B has 'cos I saw one on the ramps).
6) 17" wheels. Better handling from lower profile tyres. You can feel the difference.
I've done 6 before 4 and 5 but that's 'cos I wanted to get big brakes as well.
Cheers
Dave
1) geometry check - Prodrive settings
2) Powerflex bushes - no need for all bushes to be replaced, especially if the car is fairly new but do those that get most stress - AR bars and front wishbone etc
3) ALK - amazing difference with no other changes - and relatively inexpensive. When you do this replace the forward front wishbone bush with Powerflex - the ALK effectively replaces the rear front wishbone bush - don't replace this rear one twice....
4) Suspension - Leda B or C. My old MY96 had prodrive suspension on 16's - brilliant
5) AR bar drop links from MRT - is you get these then you won't need the Powerflex bushes. [I know the STi has solid links at the front anyway - I believe the back as the same old plastic ones as UK cars - I know the 22B has 'cos I saw one on the ramps).
6) 17" wheels. Better handling from lower profile tyres. You can feel the difference.
I've done 6 before 4 and 5 but that's 'cos I wanted to get big brakes as well.
Cheers
Dave
01 December 1999, 08:27 PM
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OK, I give up 
Has anyone with an STI V fitted an ALK with positive (excuse the pun) results?
David
PS Thank you for all the suggestions so far, everything except the livid mushroom has been great to date!
Has anyone with an STI V fitted an ALK with positive (excuse the pun) results?
David
PS Thank you for all the suggestions so far, everything except the livid mushroom has been great to date!
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01 December 1999, 11:19 PM
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Howdy..
Ok I have given you long enough to ponder over the AL kit... lol
I hate being the single source... I'm often wrong...which is worrying...
Anyways...It still applies to the STI V....you will get some benefits.
So basically... it depends what you are trying to achieve from the suspension.... new wheels ? new suspension ? or get the rear links... the AL kit.. and the new AR bushes...
Theres no point in trying to stiffen roll too much ...because you still have 16" rims...
the twitchty-ness comes from the standard suspension...*define twitchy?*
J.
[This message has been edited by firefox (edited 01-12-1999).]
Ok I have given you long enough to ponder over the AL kit... lol
I hate being the single source... I'm often wrong...which is worrying...
Anyways...It still applies to the STI V....you will get some benefits.
So basically... it depends what you are trying to achieve from the suspension.... new wheels ? new suspension ? or get the rear links... the AL kit.. and the new AR bushes...
Theres no point in trying to stiffen roll too much ...because you still have 16" rims...
the twitchty-ness comes from the standard suspension...*define twitchy?*
J.
[This message has been edited by firefox (edited 01-12-1999).]
02 December 1999, 12:57 AM
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****e!!
I was right...woohoo
Most STI owners complain about the stiffness of the standard suspension.... it does tend to "twitch" and hop around corners...
When I had my original I found that the car didnt roll..cornered superbly... but when I pushed it even harder it twitched and hop around the bend....quite amusing... lol
The only thing that will stop the twitch is to change the suspension...
J.
I was right...woohoo
Most STI owners complain about the stiffness of the standard suspension.... it does tend to "twitch" and hop around corners...
When I had my original I found that the car didnt roll..cornered superbly... but when I pushed it even harder it twitched and hop around the bend....quite amusing... lol
The only thing that will stop the twitch is to change the suspension...
J.
02 December 1999, 10:30 AM
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Jay,
I am forced to agree - since waiting I have discovered that
STI V does have stiffer bushes but will benefit from the geometry change of the ALK
STI V does have stiffer roll bars
I do have 16in wheels
The twitchyness I refer to is that stiffness of the suspension on UK roads - on great tarmac it is good - but on the back roads it feels less than poised on lumpy fast corners where the handling is slightly less predictable and so less inspiring.
I am trying to find from peeps experience what the best compromise of poise, handling and grip is.
David
I am forced to agree - since waiting I have discovered that
STI V does have stiffer bushes but will benefit from the geometry change of the ALK
STI V does have stiffer roll bars
I do have 16in wheels
The twitchyness I refer to is that stiffness of the suspension on UK roads - on great tarmac it is good - but on the back roads it feels less than poised on lumpy fast corners where the handling is slightly less predictable and so less inspiring.
I am trying to find from peeps experience what the best compromise of poise, handling and grip is.
David
02 December 1999, 01:58 PM
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As Jay says, to rid you car of twitch you have to change suspension. The twitch(!?) is caused by lack of your suspensions compliance over small/medium sized bumps. The only way to improve this is to get suspension with better quality damping (more responsive) and to match the spring rate to your dampers.
I've recently got some Prodrive kit on my car and while it bit firmer than the standard suspension, the performance over small/medium bumps mid corner is outstanding.
Andy
PS. Everyone mentions geometry settings and they do make a big difference. To me it seems to affect how the car 'sets' itself up before the corner (i.e. the weight distribution as you go into the corner).. but that's just my opinion - I'm sure there's a scientific explaination of what goes on somewhere on the BBS.
I've recently got some Prodrive kit on my car and while it bit firmer than the standard suspension, the performance over small/medium bumps mid corner is outstanding.
Andy
PS. Everyone mentions geometry settings and they do make a big difference. To me it seems to affect how the car 'sets' itself up before the corner (i.e. the weight distribution as you go into the corner).. but that's just my opinion - I'm sure there's a scientific explaination of what goes on somewhere on the BBS.
02 December 1999, 02:08 PM
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So, Jay,
even tho' you can't be a*sed to set it up - does the Leda C stop it from these high speed mid-corner hops that we have both experienced.
I don't mind the suspension being hard - in fact I can't drive softer cars now - they make me seasick - but want to have better poise in the situations you describe.
David
PS If you go to Whiteline's website - they post a review that suggests that current STis are fitted as standard with and STi version of the ALK - and so not necessary aftermarket - although Whiteline's own brochure says that all current Scoobies would benefit from the change - we'll see
even tho' you can't be a*sed to set it up - does the Leda C stop it from these high speed mid-corner hops that we have both experienced.
I don't mind the suspension being hard - in fact I can't drive softer cars now - they make me seasick - but want to have better poise in the situations you describe.
David
PS If you go to Whiteline's website - they post a review that suggests that current STis are fitted as standard with and STi version of the ALK - and so not necessary aftermarket - although Whiteline's own brochure says that all current Scoobies would benefit from the change - we'll see
02 December 1999, 02:14 PM
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I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure the STI V was mentioned in a P1 review and they said that the suspension was altered for UK roads.
They said that the STI front was too stiff and the rear too soft for UK roads.
I can't remember which magazine had this particular article.
Anyone ?
Gavin
They said that the STI front was too stiff and the rear too soft for UK roads.
I can't remember which magazine had this particular article.
Anyone ?
Gavin
02 December 1999, 09:45 PM
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It is generally felt that the STI is too stiff for UK roads - the reason the front is stiffer than the rear is that if it was the other way round STIs would spend most of their time going backwards through hedges.
The interesting this about the P1 is that they are using STI catalogues parts (don't know which ones) and the springs are actually stiffer than the standard STI - in combination with different dampers.
Make of that what you will!
David
The interesting this about the P1 is that they are using STI catalogues parts (don't know which ones) and the springs are actually stiffer than the standard STI - in combination with different dampers.
Make of that what you will!
David
02 December 1999, 10:17 PM
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Dave..
During my quest for knowledge... *dont laugh*.. I spoke to Whiteline direct about the AL kits...
What they mean by the STI's already having some of the benfits of the AL kit is that the STI's have uprated wishbone mounts... with stiffer bushes.
The AL kit obtains the AL action (and the castor) by altering the height of the actual wishbone mount/pivot point... this adjustment in height produces the castor...
hence if you look at the thinkness of the STI mount.. compared to the thickness of the Whiteline one.. you will see the whiteline one is thicker..hence places the pivot is a different place...
The bushing is slightly stiffer on the whiteline kit too
The Leda can completely remove the twitchyness...unless you wake up the valves... then bounce...hop..twitch...****e!! curb...hop...bounce...
ahhh...fully adjustable...
I am looking at changing my springs... the ones you get are superb for road use... perfect... but I found them slightly too soft for track use... so I will put my fronts on the backs.. and get some 425'ish for the fronts...
check out:
During my quest for knowledge... *dont laugh*.. I spoke to Whiteline direct about the AL kits...
What they mean by the STI's already having some of the benfits of the AL kit is that the STI's have uprated wishbone mounts... with stiffer bushes.
The AL kit obtains the AL action (and the castor) by altering the height of the actual wishbone mount/pivot point... this adjustment in height produces the castor...
hence if you look at the thinkness of the STI mount.. compared to the thickness of the Whiteline one.. you will see the whiteline one is thicker..hence places the pivot is a different place...
The bushing is slightly stiffer on the whiteline kit too
The Leda can completely remove the twitchyness...unless you wake up the valves... then bounce...hop..twitch...****e!! curb...hop...bounce...
ahhh...fully adjustable...
I am looking at changing my springs... the ones you get are superb for road use... perfect... but I found them slightly too soft for track use... so I will put my fronts on the backs.. and get some 425'ish for the fronts...
check out:
02 December 1999, 10:18 PM
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Jay,
in answer to your question about the ALK on an STI V - I went to the horses mouth and offered water
This is the response from Whiteline out in sunny Oz.
"The Current Series STi has taken up only some of the benifits that our Anti-Lift Kit offers.
We believe that there are still improvements to gain by fitting the ALK to an STi.
The ALK will add an additional .3Degrees of positive caster . (more caster is always good thing).
And the ALK will also reposition the Control arm to give you more traction."
Cheers,
David
in answer to your question about the ALK on an STI V - I went to the horses mouth and offered water
This is the response from Whiteline out in sunny Oz.
"The Current Series STi has taken up only some of the benifits that our Anti-Lift Kit offers.
We believe that there are still improvements to gain by fitting the ALK to an STi.
The ALK will add an additional .3Degrees of positive caster . (more caster is always good thing).
And the ALK will also reposition the Control arm to give you more traction."
Cheers,
David
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