14 page EU "pro" leaflet to be posted to every single home
14 April 2016, 10:55 AM
#63
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I see your point, and raise you: if we are OUT, we no longer HAVE to follow their rules, and if any government continues to do so, to the detriment of the country, they will get voted out. Surely?
Whereas if we stay in, nothing changes. WE enforce every rule, obey every law, the rest do as they please and give us two fingers while their economies benefit.
Seriously, neil, I've just come back from two weeks in france, a country whose economy is labelled as "basket case" by UK commentators.
And yet, after five months away, I see more and more new infrastructure, motorway builds, huge motorway repairs, new railway lines, new logistics centres etc etc. Same in Belgium.
In the UK: nowt. At least not where I've been.
Whereas if we stay in, nothing changes. WE enforce every rule, obey every law, the rest do as they please and give us two fingers while their economies benefit.
Seriously, neil, I've just come back from two weeks in france, a country whose economy is labelled as "basket case" by UK commentators.
And yet, after five months away, I see more and more new infrastructure, motorway builds, huge motorway repairs, new railway lines, new logistics centres etc etc. Same in Belgium.
In the UK: nowt. At least not where I've been.
As for the latter point about civils projects, this got touched on in a thread about flooding earlier in the year. I distinctly remember someone saying that a large sum of EU money was available for repairs/defenses but when questioned on the matter, their local MP said he wasn't prepared to put in for it because it's a bit of hard work. Now that's not a fault of the EU, that's the fault of a bone idle MP who won't do his job. There's all sorts of funding that we could get but we don't because no one applies for it.
14 April 2016, 01:32 PM
#64
I distinctly remember someone saying that a large sum of EU money was available for repairs/defenses but when questioned on the matter, their local MP said he wasn't prepared to put in for it because it's a bit of hard work. Now that's not a fault of the EU, that's the fault of a bone idle MP who won't do his job.
What I don't quite get is these comments that pro EU MPs want the EU to have more power over the UK. I heard a commentator on teh radio the other day state that Cameron wants us to be under a EU federal rule..i.e teh EU calls teh shots, bit like federal government rules the USA.
My point here is if that is true...whats in it for him? And what's in it for his cronies (fellow MPs) that support that too? The only thing I can think of is it gives them less work to do.
The leaflet states it would take us 10years to get the UK fully separated....yeah, only if they dragged it out.
I for one am still amazed at the sheer number of MPs (and Lords) we have in this country...if we were under more EU rule, we should have less, not more!. But no we have to have Scottish MPs, Welsh MPs, Northern Ireland MP, Euro MPs, as well as UK MPs...and if England was given a independant "voice"...we'd have English MPs too!
I think only Italy has more MPs...and well, we know what they are like for corruption, golden handshakes and riding gravy trains....
Unfortunately being in/out of the EU doesn't change this. But it may mean our lot may have to pull their finger out!
I'm starting to think I'd rather have the Monarchy take full control again
Last edited by ALi-B; 14 April 2016 at 01:34 PM.
14 April 2016, 05:36 PM
#66
My point here is if that is true...whats in it for him? And what's in it for his cronies (fellow MPs) that support that too? The only thing I can think of is it gives them less work to do.
THAT'S where a lot of our money goes.
14 April 2016, 06:37 PM
#67
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I read it. Why wouldn't you, it took less than 10 mins, I paid an inconsequential amount for it, and am not qualified to comment on it if I haven't read it.
I vote Conservative, partly due to nostalgia for Maggie, as I would probably be classed as hard right and the current bunch are too touchy-feely for my liking but better than the other choices. As has happened before under a Labour Government public money has been used for propoganda purposes. I am not bothered by that. 9 million, who cares? I did hear or read somewhere that a rich benefactor is not allowed to stump up 9 mill for the 'Outs' to knock up a response, which does seem a bit unfair.
I will probably vote 'In' but that is not certain. It would be nice if either side could stump up some facts to support their views rather than the scaremongering guff both sides are trotting out.
Which is what that brochure was. Total guff with no facts whatsoever, and a few PC photos chucked in to demonstrate their inclusivity. A double-sided sheet of 150gsm gloss would have served the purpose and probably halved the cost.
If neither side can present something other than what-ifs and maybes then chances are the 'Ins' will win, as the status quo is the default result in those circumstances, it being the least risky option.
I vote Conservative, partly due to nostalgia for Maggie, as I would probably be classed as hard right and the current bunch are too touchy-feely for my liking but better than the other choices. As has happened before under a Labour Government public money has been used for propoganda purposes. I am not bothered by that. 9 million, who cares? I did hear or read somewhere that a rich benefactor is not allowed to stump up 9 mill for the 'Outs' to knock up a response, which does seem a bit unfair.
I will probably vote 'In' but that is not certain. It would be nice if either side could stump up some facts to support their views rather than the scaremongering guff both sides are trotting out.
Which is what that brochure was. Total guff with no facts whatsoever, and a few PC photos chucked in to demonstrate their inclusivity. A double-sided sheet of 150gsm gloss would have served the purpose and probably halved the cost.
If neither side can present something other than what-ifs and maybes then chances are the 'Ins' will win, as the status quo is the default result in those circumstances, it being the least risky option.
14 April 2016, 09:09 PM
#68
Thing is, there's no status quo option. If we vote out, things will obviously be different. But if we vote in, things in years to come will be different too, Europe WILL march towards ever closer union, and the nature/make up of Europe will continue to change, esp if Turkey is admitted. It all boils down to which type of different future you want....
14 April 2016, 11:09 PM
#71
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15 April 2016, 07:46 AM
#72
I beg to differ, they are doing things in advance; They've demolished this in preparation:
The old Wolseley factory site now LDV has been entirely cleared. The picture is the offices built in the 1900s. If it was a private development that building would have been listed.
Nothing has been spared:
Last edited by ALi-B; 15 April 2016 at 08:15 AM.
15 April 2016, 08:49 AM
#74
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Plenty of con/destruction going on around here, in one way you're correct because some plans will be changing but they won't be replanting the trees and they won't be rebuilding what they've taken down nor putting the pipelines back where they were. Some friends have done very well out of the "planning".
15 April 2016, 09:22 AM
#75
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...cument-from-m/
oh look, the one in the middle hasn't got his peerage yet
oh look, the one in the middle hasn't got his peerage yet
15 April 2016, 10:14 AM
#76
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I beg to differ, they are doing things in advance; They've demolished this in preparation:
The old Wolseley factory site now LDV has been entirely cleared. The picture is the offices built in the 1900s. If it was a private development that building would have been listed.
Nothing has been spared:
The old Wolseley factory site now LDV has been entirely cleared. The picture is the offices built in the 1900s. If it was a private development that building would have been listed.
Nothing has been spared:
luckily it is not
http://www.sunbeam.org.au/?page_id=1090
although the Rootes Building is on the path of HS2 - as is our House, in fact we had a compulsory purchase order presented to us two years ago- in effect buying the land from under our house
and lots and lots of building re HS2 in West London - just google
"hs2 old oak common development"
15 April 2016, 11:02 AM
#77
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15 April 2016, 11:35 AM
#78
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no, because we have not sold it and
crucially it was not a compulsory purchase order on the property per se but on the land beneath the house
from the published HS2 info the line/tunnel goes 100% beneath our house
(I think in theory you own all the land beneath your property - I could be wrong)
interesting that the compulsory purchase order on your fiends house valued it higher than the open market - why was that
and also another interesting point, in London at least, proximity to train lines does not really effect house prices, indeed it often means properties have large gardens
and I think most people do not find the noise of trains as intrusive as other urban sounds
crucially it was not a compulsory purchase order on the property per se but on the land beneath the house
from the published HS2 info the line/tunnel goes 100% beneath our house
(I think in theory you own all the land beneath your property - I could be wrong)
interesting that the compulsory purchase order on your fiends house valued it higher than the open market - why was that
and also another interesting point, in London at least, proximity to train lines does not really effect house prices, indeed it often means properties have large gardens
and I think most people do not find the noise of trains as intrusive as other urban sounds
15 April 2016, 11:53 AM
#79
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Pretty sure it was something to do with them not taking into account the existing railway line when valuing the property for purchase. It was very close to the railway as in may as well have been a station. Maybe some compo thrown in as well.
15 April 2016, 01:45 PM
#80
for a minute there I though that was the old Rootes building - which is in Barlby Road - just around the corner from our house in London
luckily it is not
http://www.sunbeam.org.au/?page_id=1090
although the Rootes Building is on the path of HS2 - as is our House, in fact we had a compulsory purchase order presented to us two years ago- in effect buying the land from under our house
and lots and lots of building re HS2 in West London - just google
"hs2 old oak common development"
luckily it is not
http://www.sunbeam.org.au/?page_id=1090
although the Rootes Building is on the path of HS2 - as is our House, in fact we had a compulsory purchase order presented to us two years ago- in effect buying the land from under our house
and lots and lots of building re HS2 in West London - just google
"hs2 old oak common development"
The picture is of the offices that fronted the factory in Drews Lane, Ward End/Washford Heath, Birmingham. It was Wolseley (cars) which later had its use transferred to making body pressings and building vans (Morris) for British Leyland, then LDV after merge and subsequent split of DAF. It was a impressive building and hid the massive workshops behind it (not ajoining).
Its earmarked to a be depot for HS2. Locals would rather have the land to create a business park.
http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/ldv-van...mingham.t41461
I used to do contract work down the road at Accantia on Alum Rock Road (used to be known as Smith & Nephew). The old part was some impressive late Victorian. works. They must of spent millions in the early 2000s knocking the guts out the building to put new production lines in (I bumped into my cousin there who was doing the design works
). The main office block by then was only 25% occupied so it was already cutting back.That's all gone as well; just empty wasteland.
Then there was the wire-works towards Aston (on litchfield road IIRC) I did work for...all levelled
Thats nothing to do with HS2. But its surmises the loss of heavy industry in that area and NOTHING has come close replacing that lost economic revenue that it served thearea (jobs, industry, trickle down spending etc...indeed my old HVAC job was serving alot of these factories and businesses).
HS2 will not bring that back, nor will leaving the EU, or staying it...
Last edited by ALi-B; 15 April 2016 at 01:48 PM.
15 April 2016, 03:32 PM
#83
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Bang goes any plans for a basement/man cave/bag cave/fall out shelter. LOL. In seriousness though I hope it doesn't have any negative affects to your home.
The picture is of the offices that fronted the factory in Drews Lane, Ward End/Washford Heath, Birmingham. It was Wolseley (cars) which later had its use transferred to making body pressings and building vans (Morris) for British Leyland, then LDV after merge and subsequent split of DAF. It was a impressive building and hid the massive workshops behind it (not ajoining).
Its earmarked to a be depot for HS2. Locals would rather have the land to create a business park.
http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/ldv-van...mingham.t41461
I used to do contract work down the road at Accantia on Alum Rock Road (used to be known as Smith & Nephew). The old part was some impressive late Victorian. works. They must of spent millions in the early 2000s knocking the guts out the building to put new production lines in (I bumped into my cousin there who was doing the design works ). The main office block by then was only 25% occupied so it was already cutting back.
That's all gone as well; just empty wasteland.
Then there was the wire-works towards Aston (on litchfield road IIRC) I did work for...all levelled
Thats nothing to do with HS2. But its surmises the loss of heavy industry in that area and NOTHING has come close replacing that lost economic revenue that it served thearea (jobs, industry, trickle down spending etc...indeed my old HVAC job was serving alot of these factories and businesses).
HS2 will not bring that back, nor will leaving the EU, or staying it...
The picture is of the offices that fronted the factory in Drews Lane, Ward End/Washford Heath, Birmingham. It was Wolseley (cars) which later had its use transferred to making body pressings and building vans (Morris) for British Leyland, then LDV after merge and subsequent split of DAF. It was a impressive building and hid the massive workshops behind it (not ajoining).
Its earmarked to a be depot for HS2. Locals would rather have the land to create a business park.
http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/ldv-van...mingham.t41461
I used to do contract work down the road at Accantia on Alum Rock Road (used to be known as Smith & Nephew). The old part was some impressive late Victorian. works. They must of spent millions in the early 2000s knocking the guts out the building to put new production lines in (I bumped into my cousin there who was doing the design works
). The main office block by then was only 25% occupied so it was already cutting back.That's all gone as well; just empty wasteland.
Then there was the wire-works towards Aston (on litchfield road IIRC) I did work for...all levelled
Thats nothing to do with HS2. But its surmises the loss of heavy industry in that area and NOTHING has come close replacing that lost economic revenue that it served thearea (jobs, industry, trickle down spending etc...indeed my old HVAC job was serving alot of these factories and businesses).
HS2 will not bring that back, nor will leaving the EU, or staying it...
re my house - thanks, ultimately it won't "add" any value but being realistic, the pressure on housing in London is soo intense combined with, as my friend who is a very experienced surveyor said "most properties in London have tunnels under them" (a result of those industrial Victorians)
I don't think it will make much difference
and I hate "nimby-ism"
15 April 2016, 06:55 PM
#84
And seeing the government are advertising to promote exporting. are the sectors this "surge" in employemnt exporting? And do they support other business in teh aera to create better local economies?
Tricky one to answer.
19 April 2016, 10:44 AM
#86
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An interesting read.
Also, although I think the Treasury report is a bit misleading in some ways, at least they can put some figures down, whereas the Leave campaign cannot do any such thing. It's all well and good saying we can negotiate this and that, but it is purely supposition, it really is asking people to take a great leap of faith.
That article also suggests that the other reasons of bureaucracy and reduced payments are somewhat misleading.
Also, although I think the Treasury report is a bit misleading in some ways, at least they can put some figures down, whereas the Leave campaign cannot do any such thing. It's all well and good saying we can negotiate this and that, but it is purely supposition, it really is asking people to take a great leap of faith.
That article also suggests that the other reasons of bureaucracy and reduced payments are somewhat misleading.
19 April 2016, 11:37 AM
#87
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An interesting read.
Also, although I think the Treasury report is a bit misleading in some ways, at least they can put some figures down, whereas the Leave campaign cannot do any such thing. It's all well and good saying we can negotiate this and that, but it is purely supposition, it really is asking people to take a great leap of faith.
That article also suggests that the other reasons of bureaucracy and reduced payments are somewhat misleading.
Also, although I think the Treasury report is a bit misleading in some ways, at least they can put some figures down, whereas the Leave campaign cannot do any such thing. It's all well and good saying we can negotiate this and that, but it is purely supposition, it really is asking people to take a great leap of faith.
That article also suggests that the other reasons of bureaucracy and reduced payments are somewhat misleading.
That pdf was produced by the Labour MEPs. Nuff said. And heres a better analysis of the Treasury report http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...eath-contempt/and http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst...act-of-brexit/
Last edited by warrenm2; 19 April 2016 at 11:52 AM.
