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Planning for the future is something grown-ups do in a testable and considered fashion. Being hopeful, in this context, is akin to the wish thinking of a child.
The EU was going through a rocky patch, we could have stood firm and helped steady the ship, but we fled like rats and I 'reasonably predict' that history will judge us accordingly.
Captain Oats had a sense of adventure.
He's sovereign and I trust Him and I'm glad you've concluded on a sensible note.
What a gloom bomb you are!
Two men looked through prison bars, one saw mud the other saw stars. No prizes for guessing which one you'd be
Two men looked through prison bars, one saw mud the other saw stars. No prizes for guessing which one you'd be
I like this as a poetry. Where did you get it from, Paben? If you made it yourself, it sounds good , although I don't think James is being doom-and-gloom there. He's just being realistic. Consequence of hitting your feet with an almighty force of a sword is just one. You will hurt and probably lose your feet- simple. It's not about seeing it differently as growing other pair (of feet).
Two men looked through prison bars, one saw mud the other saw stars. No prizes for guessing which one you'd be
Well that seems to be your stock response in this post match analysis. Can you imagine the MOTD boys giving it 'tally ho!' and 'best foot forward'? No, they converse about the reality of the game they've witnessed, warts and all. What you're asking me and others to do is to rebuild. It all sounds terribly British and Stoic and awfully stiff upper lip, but actually we have no drawings and can't therefore lay foundations or plan or, to pleasingly extend the analogy, be sure we will have a roof over our head.
I like your prison illustration. You can gaze upwards dreaming of a better life or downwards towards murky soil, but either way you're trapped in a cell. And this particular cell has been locked from the inside.
Well that seems to be your stock response in this post match analysis. Can you imagine the MOTD boys giving it 'tally ho!' and 'best foot forward'? No, they converse about the reality of the game they've witnessed, warts and all. What you're asking me and others to do is to rebuild. It all sounds terribly British and Stoic and awfully stiff upper lip, but actually we have no drawings and can't therefore lay foundations or plan or, to pleasingly extend the analogy, be sure we will have a roof over our head.
I like your prison illustration. You can gaze upwards dreaming of a better life or downwards towards murky soil, but either way you're trapped in a cell. And this particular cell has been locked from the inside.
And what's wrong with that? It's an attutude that has served this country and its people very well over the centuries. When planning difficult tasks we used to examine the many 'What ifs', and explore the options before committing to action. Some were not very encouraging but they were a whole lot better than slumping in a heap and admitting defeat.
As to the prison scenario, gazing upwards sustains hope in a seemingly hopeless situation. The obvious message: they can lock up your body but not your dreams or your faith. I thought that might appeal to you. But perhaps it passes you by.
I like this as a poetry. Where did you get it from, Paben? If you made it yourself, it sounds good , although I don't think James is being doom-and-gloom there. He's just being realistic. Consequence of hitting your feet with an almighty force of a sword is just one. You will hurt and probably lose your feet- simple. It's not about seeing it differently as growing other pair (of feet).
Ms T I can't claim responsibility for it and I don't know where it came from. Over the years I have jotted down the odd snippet that has rung a bell, this is one of them.
And what's wrong with that? It's an attutude that has served this country and its people very well over the centuries. When planning difficult tasks we used to examine the many 'What ifs', and explore the options before committing to action.
Yet we haven't examined anything!! No one has a flippin' scooby! We've done exactly the opposite of what you endorse in your last sentence.
Some were not very encouraging but they were a whole lot better than slumping in a heap and admitting defeat.
Forward, the Light Brigade!
As to the prison scenario, gazing upwards sustains hope in a seemingly hopeless situation. The obvious message: they can lock up your body but not your dreams or your faith. I thought that might appeal to you. But perhaps it passes you by.
Oh, I got it, Paben. Did you get my point about locking the cell doors from the inside?
Last edited by JTaylor; 22 November 2016 at 01:56 PM.
And what's wrong with that? It's an attutude that has served this country and its people very well over the centuries. When planning difficult tasks we used to examine the many 'What ifs', and explore the options before committing to action. Some were not very encouraging but they were a whole lot better than slumping in a heap and admitting defeat.
As to the prison scenario, gazing upwards sustains hope in a seemingly hopeless situation. The obvious message: they can lock up your body but not your dreams or your faith. I thought that might appeal to you. But perhaps it passes you by.
This is good advice, but went out of the window with the Brexit vote. We considered the what ifs and the experts overwhelmingly said Brexit was a bad idea, so we duly ignored the experts and went with it anyway!
Dominic Cummings (strategy head of the vote leave campaign) has likened task facing us as being akin to defeating the N4zis in word war 2
One of the many ways in which Whitehall and Downing Street should be revolutionised is to integrate physicist-dominated data science in decision-making. There are really vast improvements possible in Government that could save hundreds of billions and avoid many disasters. Leaving the EU also requires the destruction of the normal Whitehall/Downing Street system and the development of new methods. A dysfunctional broken system is hardly likely to achieve the most complex UK government project since beating N4zi Germany, and this realisation is spreading – a subject I will return to.
We had a trajectory which allowed us to make reasonable predictions about the future. The trajectory is now non-linear making the future almost impossible to predict. The former was a safer bet and if you can't see that, you can't recognise logic.
Logic would bring you to the conclusion that there is a world outside of the business you work for.
Logic would also tell your boss that the EU will want to make an example of us and **** us in any trade deal to prevent our economy rising and prevent the EU collapsing with other countries following suit, so he'd better start looking for other options sharpish.
Perhaps the business you work for will fold, perhaps it will thrive. Perhaps he should become a glass half full type of chap rather than the kind of doom merchants that stop spending out panic and help create an economy that spirals downwards.
Certainly other businesses will flourish post brexit.
And if you're an example of the typical remain voter then perhaps the single minded attitude towards 'I hope I'm alright **** anyone else' should change, open your mind and realise there are people in different situations and have different opinions.
But then if your boss isn't astute enough to find another supplier/buyer at competitive rates outside of the EU then I'd suggest his business was always on borrowed time.
Logic would bring you to the conclusion that there is a world outside of the business you work for.
Logic would also tell your boss that the EU will want to make an example of us and **** us in any trade deal to prevent our economy rising and prevent the EU collapsing with other countries following suit, so he'd better start looking for other options sharpish.
Perhaps the business you work for will fold, perhaps it will thrive. Perhaps he should become a glass half full type of chap rather than the kind of doom merchants that stop spending out panic and help create an economy that spirals downwards.
Certainly other businesses will flourish post brexit.
And if you're an example of the typical remain voter then perhaps the single minded attitude towards 'I hope I'm alright **** anyone else' should change, open your mind and realise there are people in different situations and have different opinions.
But then if your boss isn't astute enough to find another supplier/buyer at competitive rates outside of the EU then I'd suggest his business was always on borrowed time.
although it was you who said an economic downturn could be good because middle management would be the first to suffer
that seems a bit "i'm all right jack blah blah blah"
and gleefully talked about the "feckless" suffering - brought down to a world they "don't know"
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 22 November 2016 at 03:13 PM.
Logic would bring you to the conclusion that there is a world outside of the business you work for.
Logic would also tell your boss that the EU will want to make an example of us and **** us in any trade deal to prevent our economy rising and prevent the EU collapsing with other countries following suit, so he'd better start looking for other options sharpish.
Perhaps the business you work for will fold, perhaps it will thrive. Perhaps he should become a glass half full type of chap rather than the kind of doom merchants that stop spending out panic and help create an economy that spirals downwards.
Certainly other businesses will flourish post brexit.
And if you're an example of the typical remain voter then perhaps the single minded attitude towards 'I hope I'm alright **** anyone else' should change, open your mind and realise there are people in different situations and have different opinions.
But then if your boss isn't astute enough to find another supplier/buyer at competitive rates outside of the EU then I'd suggest his business was always on borrowed time.
I don't know where to start. You've picked-up the wrong end of the stick, Kwik.
Dominic Cummings (strategy head of the vote leave campaign) has likened task facing us as being akin to defeating the N4zis in word war 2
One of the many ways in which Whitehall and Downing Street should be revolutionised is to integrate physicist-dominated data science in decision-making. There are really vast improvements possible in Government that could save hundreds of billions and avoid many disasters. Leaving the EU also requires the destruction of the normal Whitehall/Downing Street system and the development of new methods. A dysfunctional broken system is hardly likely to achieve the most complex UK government project since beating N4zi Germany, and this realisation is spreading – a subject I will return to.
I'd agree with that. Change is the key word and it's what I certainly voted for when I voted leave and I'd imagine it's what prompted 17m to do the same.
A change at Downing Street is certainly required and not even the most ardent brexiteer would say they have the confidence in ANY current politician to stand up to the EU and broker a deal with EU politicians currently being childish.
But what was the alternative?. Vote remain, stick with the status quo and watch as the EU **** us over even more. The same politicians aren't going to broker a better deal from inside when it can't even convince their own people to 'remain' inside.
The remain vote was 'I have trust in you to do what's best in this country even though you can't be trusted not to stick your **** in a rent boy'
Vote remain, stick with the status quo and watch as the EU **** us over even more.
How exactly does the EU **** us over? The daily mail said so is hardly a convincing argument! This is the big point that was missed in the whole Brexit argument and sadly the Remain campaigners spent too little time explainging the good that the EU does for us and just let the leave campaing spout this argument without anything to back it up!
but here is a link to the EU commission site that they set up to counter the myths and bullsh1t propagated over the EU in the UK press, going back 30 years
Publicly formulated the first time on January 2013[13] by Alberto Brandolini, an Italian programmer, the Bullsh1t Asymmetry Principle (also known as Brandolini's law) states that:
The amount of energy needed to refute Bullsh1t is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 22 November 2016 at 03:56 PM.
The story changes every time, no wonder it's impossible to keep up.
Enjoy your properties. Renting out apartments = the rich get richer.
I understand the name calling. You've become something you hate. If there's an ounce of truth in it that is.
It's funny, reading the last couple of pages, I see an analogy of the life choices between yourself and Ditch, you as a remainer and Ditch who "Brexited", question is, who is better off, the remainer or the "brexiter"?
If you're not a club member , your only bargaining chip is that the club will disintegrate thus losing cred.
Otherwise you're being the childish one
No the club is an expensive one and without a definitive figure of what the U.K. made as a direct result of being within that club it was never clear whether the club was worth being in.
Our actual bargaining chip should have always been 'convince us to stay in', but is now actually stronger in that the majority don't want us in because the EU didn't think we'd vote out.
The EU's current stand point is akin to a kid saying 'it's my ball and you're not playing anymore'.
How exactly does the EU **** us over? The daily mail said so is hardly a convincing argument! This is the big point that was missed in the whole Brexit argument and sadly the Remain campaigners spent too little time explainging the good that the EU does for us and just let the leave campaing spout this argument without anything to back it up!
Ah the whole Daily Mail angle. Ignoring the fact the brexit vote was 10 times the circulation of the daily mail it would be physically impossible for the daily mail to have had such an influence.
Yet you say others 'spout without anything to back it up' pmsl.
It's funny, reading the last couple of pages, I see an analogy of the life choices between yourself and Ditch, you as a remainer and Ditch who "Brexited", question is, who is better off, the remainer or the "brexiter"?
It must be even more confusing for someone else to read. It certainly confused me. Ditchmeisters 'story' changes every 5 minutes, he has had a reputation for it for a number of years.
Liars tend to not be able to keep on top of the lies they've told, especially when it spans a number of years.
although it was you who said an economic downturn could be good because middle management would be the first to suffer
that seems a bit "i'm all right jack blah blah blah"
and gleefully talked about the "feckless" suffering - brought down to a world they "don't know"
Actually it was said that 'people like me' would be the first to suffer and I replied it was middle management in my experience. Seeing this for myself is also one of the reasons I've stayed 'bottom rung'
Those middle managers tend to move down rather than out.
No the club is an expensive one and without a definitive figure of what the U.K. made as a direct result of being within that club it was never clear whether the club was worth being in.
Our actual bargaining chip should have always been 'convince us to stay in', but is now actually stronger in that the majority don't want us in because the EU didn't think we'd vote out.
The EU's current stand point is akin to a kid saying 'it's my ball and you're not playing anymore'.
Never mind all that . It's gone
Why should they give us rights over and above any remaining club members
Ah the whole Daily Mail angle. Ignoring the fact the brexit vote was 10 times the circulation of the daily mail it would be physically impossible for the daily mail to have had such an influence.
Yet you say others 'spout without anything to back it up' pmsl.
Yes I said Daily Mail, but clearly the source of such stories isn't limited to the Daily Mail but all Pro-Brexit media and you're conveniently ignoring the fact that their stories are available online and not just print editions and are reposted to forums and facebook etc.
And in your petty attempt to discredit my comment you also failed to answer my question - How exactly does the EU **** us over? Perhaps more specifically, what exactly has the EU done that ****'s you over? Name something, anything, that the EU has done that has made your life worse?
The point is, its easy to just blame the EU for all the problems in the UK and ignore the real issues! Some pages ago people were complainging they can't afford to by a house! Why is that a reason to leave the UK? How has the EU caused the housing crisis in the UK? Yeah, yeah, immigrants, blah, blah etc., but the immagrants aren't the reason the UK has failed to invest in affordable housing for the past 30 years! Leaving the EU is not going to mean that there is a sudden mass of affordable housing coming on the market!
Why should they give us rights over and above any remaining club members
Because we have/had one of the higher tarrifs, whilst our industries have been funded to move to other EU countries that pays no tariff.
Without the UK how would our finances and industries be used to stabilise other, weaker economies?.
If our tarrif was required, will the tarrifs of other EU countries now rise? Will countries that previously haven't paid tariffs now have to start?.
Are EU members now not only expected to not only stop or restrict imports to/from the UK but pay higher tariffs?
Perhaps we should have been offered different terms under the same tariff.
Perhaps the EU should have realised that if a major player was considering a move out of the EU that their terms were outdated and needed adjusting. Not just for us, but for everyone.
In a blind panic some are considering what being out of the EU will mean. But forgetting the EU without the UK will not be rosy for those left in. They are holding their cards to their chest and in reality have more chance of other member states leaving if they don't cut us a favourable deal than if they did.
How will Germany react to being told their tariff will rise and that they will possibly lose a large player in the export of their motor industry?
We should be considering our options and fast. With Obama writing us off and trump basically u-turning on that new deals with the US, China, Russia possibly could be a better option than sitting and biting our nails waiting for the EU to forgive our sins.
No the club is an expensive one and without a definitive figure of what the U.K. made as a direct result of being within that club it was never clear whether the club was worth being in.
Our actual bargaining chip should have always been 'convince us to stay in', but is now actually stronger in that the majority don't want us in because the EU didn't think we'd vote out.
The EU's current stand point is akin to a kid saying 'it's my ball and you're not playing anymore'.
Because we have/had one of the higher tarrifs, whilst our industries have been funded to move to other EU countries that pays no tariff.
Without the UK how would our finances and industries be used to stabilise other, weaker economies?.
If our tarrif was required, will the tarrifs of other EU countries now rise? Will countries that previously haven't paid tariffs now have to start?.
Are EU members now not only expected to not only stop or restrict imports to/from the UK but pay higher tariffs?
Perhaps we should have been offered different terms under the same tariff.
Perhaps the EU should have realised that if a major player was considering a move out of the EU that their terms were outdated and needed adjusting. Not just for us, but for everyone.
In a blind panic some are considering what being out of the EU will mean. But forgetting the EU without the UK will not be rosy for those left in. They are holding their cards to their chest and in reality have more chance of other member states leaving if they don't cut us a favourable deal than if they did.
How will Germany react to being told their tariff will rise and that they will possibly lose a large player in the export of their motor industry?
We should be considering our options and fast. With Obama writing us off and trump basically u-turning on that new deals with the US, China, Russia possibly could be a better option than sitting and biting our nails waiting for the EU to forgive our sins.
Yes I said Daily Mail, but clearly the source of such stories isn't limited to the Daily Mail but all Pro-Brexit media and you're conveniently ignoring the fact that their stories are available online and not just print editions and are reposted to forums and facebook etc.
And in your petty attempt to discredit my comment you also failed to answer my question - How exactly does the EU **** us over? Perhaps more specifically, what exactly has the EU done that ****'s you over? Name something, anything, that the EU has done that has made your life worse?
The point is, its easy to just blame the EU for all the problems in the UK and ignore the real issues! Some pages ago people were complainging they can't afford to by a house! Why is that a reason to leave the UK? How has the EU caused the housing crisis in the UK? Yeah, yeah, immigrants, blah, blah etc., but the immagrants aren't the reason the UK has failed to invest in affordable housing for the past 30 years! Leaving the EU is not going to mean that there is a sudden mass of affordable housing coming on the market!
I've said on a number of occasions why I voted out.
Its also been said on a number of occasions (not just by me) that propaganda/bull**** was spread by both sides.
Are you really of the mind that ANY media doesn't have an agenda behind any article is writes/films/shows?
Why do you insist on blaming the daily mail? (Don't think I've ever read that paper lol).
Wake up.
Last edited by Kwik; 22 November 2016 at 05:59 PM.
22 November 2016 | 12:24 PM
, although I don't think James is being doom-and-gloom there. He's just being realistic. Consequence of hitting your feet with an almighty force of a sword is just one. You will hurt and probably lose your feet- simple. It's not about seeing it differently as growing other pair (of feet).
