Andy.F

I was wondering if anyone can explain the logic behind the 'pass only on the left' rule at track days ?

I would have thought pass on the right may have been more appropriate for a number of reasons.

1 - It's how we do it on the road, people naturally watch to the right for cars overtaking.

2 - On the straights (the accepted trackday passing point) the racing line is the left side. If cars were to pass on right then the slow car could proceed undisturbed.

3 - The faster car would be in control of the move and not get 'stuck' behing a non observing or non co-operative slower car.

4 - The slow car would be able to spend more time watching where he/she's going rather than their mirrors.

5 - It would be safer for a car on a slowing down lap to exit the track to the pit lane (this can be dodgy as you exit knockhill hairpin with a queue behind you wanting to pass on the left)

Finally, people end up passing on the right anyway which just adds an unnecessary risk that the slow car may check his mirror whilst you are alongside and inadvertently sideswipe you !!

Any views/comments ??

Andy

SCOSaltire

i follow ur logic

more fors:
slower car has to move - so faster car should wait until the slower car does more - indicates that the slower car knows and is ready for the faster car to pass.

in the case of knockhill, most fast lines are from the left to the right... so slower car moves over and lets faster cars continue into the corner without the faster car having to look back and then mover to the left to take the right hander - as would be the case with passing on the right.

personally - people passing on the right when it should be on the left should be brought in and told off.

but then, i have not driven my car on the track

RB5-Black

The pass on the left is to stop people doing last second kamakazi overtaking manouvers down the inside of you. Tracks are clockwise in general so overtaking on the left puts them on the outside.

Knockhill puts the cones out for the hot hatch day's to stop people passing on the inside of corners.

Little Miss WRX

I think only very rarely do they get away with it.

john banks

Tricky - as a trackday rookie, I found that a lot of people did not want to pass me after I had done a trackday or two, until the cool down lap, which was very difficult to achieve on the last Knockhill trackday (SIDC). Reason being that you would be on the line coming out of a corner and just moving across to the right to let the following car overtake when they would then start to overtake you on the right! Then you would stay there out the way to let them past and the next bloke would flash you and get you to move over to the right so he could pass and get very pissed at you for going slow on the left. This happened a few times. I am trying to take good care of my brakes in particular, so really need a cool down lap, but on a busy track it can be a real headache. I am happy to stick to rules, but everyone has to stick to them and it needs to be crystal clear and policed.

Andy.F

I would have thought having the cones out, like hot hatch, then allow passing on either side ON THE STRAIGHT would have been ok ?
The cones on the lead into the corners stop the 'last of the late brake'ers' diving up the inside.
If I hadn't passed on the right (bad me) I'd still have been behind erm, better not name him as he gets upset for 10 laps !!

Little Miss WRX

posted this on the other thread.....

I do believe some tracks (maybe all) offer a similar flagging system to that of karting whereby you move over for a faster person, if shown the blue flag?

Is this the case or not?

T-uk

k/hill let you pass either side as long as it is done safely .most folk up here indicate and side up to let you pass unless it is a black evo7 .

edit to say:thinking about it,possibly this passing either side is a k/hill top marque night thing and might not be allowed on an sidc days.they have definitely said that it is okay at top marque/gmsc night briefings lately.

[Edited by T-uk - 7/10/2002 2:16:41 PM]

T-uk

I was spectating at the last sidc day.the last briefing I sat through was given by the woman who gave private lessons to john banks.I am sure she said that passing either side was okay but I am sure this was at a top marque event.

I do recall a few of us getting our wrists slapped by JohnS at a lotus day for aggressive overtaking with our 4x4 cars but when we questioned the track marshals,they had told us that a few lotus drivers had made comment but as far as they were concerned we were safe enough(none of us,at any time were flagged or warned by the track marshals).

perhaps JohnS could tell us if this is a lotus/sidc rule only,not possibly the tracks rule.I have passed and been passed on both sides but as I said earlier most of the time indicators have been used.I do more top marque nights than sidc events and have to admit to sometimes switching off at briefings but this could be why sometimes track marshals are happy and other drivers not.

bladerider

Knockhill's very own race school cars have an OVERTAKE sign on the back with an arrow pointing to the left.

T-uk

good point bladerider,

if I pull out the hairpin,behind a slower car and they do not indicate and pull over,(to let me pass on the left) and I have the choice I always go right,just in case they suddenly dive into the pits .

T-uk

quote by JohnS on the k/hill thread:

Andy - overtaking on left - not mandatory, but we do try and enforce it as much as possible for safety reasons. We have generally run overtake on both sides in the past, but it can get confusing for some, especially if they have been at lots of "overtake on the left only" track days at other venues. The last thing some of the experienced guys want, is to have lined up and committed to an overtake on the right maneuvre coming out of a corner, slower guy see faster car appraoching at last minute, and pulls out into path of faster car, forcing them off track.

With regards to cars "you know" out on track - if the track is clear ahead, then you can pass on either side, but please take car.

It's of more importance when there are several cars ahead - you may pass the first one on the right, and the 2nd or 3rd may pull out in front of you, to let the car immediately behind past. This becomes more when cars have a marked difference in speeds.

If you find a car won't pull over, and it isn't 100% safe to pass on the right (ie unsure if thay have seen you or not), then the safest thing to do is to flash your headlamps (or put them on), and wait for them (hopefully) to pull over, or drop back half a lap and have lots of fun catching them up again (Tut style ). Then when you do come in, have a word with the marshalls or myself, and we'll have a word with them.

thanks for clearing this up .

tut

Unfortunately, although pass on the left is the briefing directive, it does not always work out that way.

With experienced track day drivers, they will always move naturally over to the right if they see a car closing on them.

It really is one of the simplest concepts on the circuit. If you see a car in your mirror that was not there before, then he is going faster than you. Maybe not everywhere on the circuit, but he IS lapping faster. So let him past, even if it means lifting off on the straight.

You can then follow him and see if that was the case.

There are few cars faster on the track than mine, but for those that are, I have no problem with them passing me, or letting them past, and then seeing if I can keep up with them.

tut

Andy.F

Cheers John

Tut

"If you see a car in your mirror that was not there before,"

I think the key word is 'IF' there are a few people not doing so IMHO !

No problem really, as long as there is the option to go right

Andy

McMiata Man

I have driven about 5 track days ay KH and passengered many more. As far as I can remember, the marshals do not strictly enforce the left overtaking rule, as it is a "Racing rule", and there is always a large number of track newbies who get confused by this. It's hard enough trying not to slide off the track without having to stare at the rear view mirror for fast cars approaching, and then the complex task of deciding where to position your car

What we were always told was, newbies should concentrate on driving and not make any mad moves over to either side of the track when someone approaches. A faster, more experienced driver should be able to anticipate and react to what the new driver is about to do, perhaps flashing the lights or even indicating his intentions.

With 50% of the drivers wanting to pass on the left and 50% wanting to pass on the right your only option is to let each other know of your intentions. This may break your momentum slightly but as we've already stated, this is NOT a RACE

Have fun, see you when I get my Supercharger on my MX5

skyenet

Only had a couple of track days but try to make sure I keep and eye on my mirror and move to the right (Got it correct this time Andy!!) where possible.

This is usually pretty straight forward after Clarks or after the hairpin. However I think once into Duffas then the next safest place to let somebody pass is just after the Chicane and if I am going to do this I indicate just after Butchers as I come up to the chicane. However this can mean it is hard to line up again for Clarks so certainly the two straights are the best places.

I was a passenger in a car, which was certainly not hanging about, and was amazed when passed by a very fast car at Mcintyres. Luckily the driver had glanced in his mirrors and noticed him. Not so sure if I would have checked my mirrors at that stage as somebody passing there would be the last thing I would be expecting. I find that I am concentrating on the series of bends to make sure I am getting through quickly and safely and its probably not to before Butchers I would recheck my mirror again.

I am not the slowest on track and it is a bit annoying when somebody does not move over, even after flashing lights at them. After a lap of them not moving over I eventually had to pass them on the right. Luckily they didn't put on any more power while I was passing or I would have run out of passing space as I was at full throttle.

Iain

SCOSaltire

i thought i heard at the drivers briefing at knockhill that passing was on the left...

edited to say i heard it at lotus dealer day and a sidc day

[Edited by SCOSaltire - 7/10/2002 2:20:08 PM]