V5-APS

iTrader: (1)

Hi there Bob,
What sort of Hybrid turbo are you running? I want to 'upgrade' my V5 STi and am currently looking at the options.

Cheers

harj

Bob please reply to my emails!!!! Have I upset you?

The 22B needs some TLC from you ASAP!!!!

Bob Rawle

V5-APS, as you have no email address I'm afraid I cannot reply, you can mail me if you wish.

Harj, nothing from you since a single mail last year, cannot reply to what is not received. Mailed off line as well.

Sam Elassar

hi Richard/ harj

what happened to the 22B ? i thought it was mapped for safety ? was it wear and tear or did have a problem that lead to the failure. very curious and concerned.

cheers
sam

also
hi bob

rsquire

Hi Bob,

As you've probably surmised the 22 went bang the other day.. However, give the "ole trout" her due she did it in the nicest way possible. Sunny day, Motorway offramp to the services.. Very comfortable

So the plan of campaign is to have her re-built to stock and then get you to re-map her. So she's just as she was .. that is Superb

Richard

rsquire

Hi Sam

We don't know yet what exactly failed. We'll know more once the motor is stripped hopefully this week. However, I would doubt very much that the failure has anything to do with the mapping.

Richard

IWatkins

Sounds like the same thing that happened to Anders car to me. But we shall see.

Just hope it isn't too expensive Richard.

Cheers

Ian

harj

Watty its the same thing that happens to most Scoobies that fail I reckon, we shall see though.

Sam Elassar

hi richard
i obviously don't think for a second that it was because of the mapping. but what i am concerned about is your car was mapped to increase power in the mid range and reduce power at the top end. hence the low bhp figures, this should mean it is actually safer than a standard 22B to a small extent. plus the 22B has got all those sti pistons etc..... if this fails what chance does my car have and it is mapped for power more than anything else!!!!!!!!!
please keep us informed guys with your findings so we can take precautions.

IW
anders car blew up first time due to bad chip as we all know. but what happened the second time ? again anders car was quite heavily modified so you would expect more problems. right ?

Chins

Without wishing to bring back old subjects. Could it be that Anders car failure the first time was NOT down to the mapping ?. Everyone jumped to the mapping on Anders car the first time, but we continue to see cars fail in standard trim, and now with probably the best map in the world. Suggests to me that maybe the PE remap was not to blame.

What is it with the Scooby engine !!

Jonathan

EvilBevel

Chins, let me make a wild guess... (or is it ?)

Most scoobies that I know failed, did so doing top speed (70 mph ) for more than 1 minute ...

They have a heat soak problem... again, wild guess, but then again maybe spot on.

Nothing to do with state of tuning I think. Standard cars have had the same problem.

Let's keep Anders' car out of this exercise, for simplicity's sake.

Someone will hopefully prove me wrong someday.

rsquire

I agree with not trying to compare this failure with others, particularly as at this stage we simply do not know what caused the failure.

We shall ensure that we pass on all findings to the BBS in a non sensational manner to provide additional knowledge to the Subaru community as a whole.

One thing to bear in mind is that the car had covered approx 42 thousand miles at the time of failure and had probably undertaken more track days than any other 22B in the UK.

Those miles had been achieved without major expense and therefore I have no complaints at all at the setup, maintenance or use of the car.

Richard

IWatkins

Richard,
I would still sack him though (I'm joking Harj)

Seriously, yes, no point speculating until it has been taken apart and looked at.

Sam,
Whether Anders car blew up due to a bad chip is open to speculation.

Cheers

Ian

MorayMackenzie

Harj,

Anders 22b failed on a trackday, Richards on a Motorway... I doub't they failed in exactly the same way.

You haven't said much about the circumstances leading up to the failure, I don't suppose you would enlighten us to what happened so that we can try and avoid similar circumstances on our cars?

It was on a motorway, by Richard's implication. IMHO, the easy way to cause an engine failure on such a long straight bit of road would be the driver holding it flat out in 5th for a number of minutes.

Moray

Stef

Adam.
Your theory of number three bearing's proximity to the turbo is the most likely one IMHO.
I'm no engine boff, but several people who are have also put forward this theory.
The question is, what, if anything can be done to reduce the risks?
There's no question that Scoobs despise long jaunts at maximum revs.

Stef.

Scott J Davies

I'm having an oil cooler fitted for the very reason mentioned by Adam and Stef.

The Japenese fit one almost before doing anything else to the car!

Not sure if it will help ala Anders but as per Stef and Adams comments then well it has to be worth the 500 squid!

SJD

Adam M

Dont want to go down this route so wont push it oo far.

Most subaru engines fail due to number three big end going. This is more likely at sustained max speed as it is right next to the turbo and the chances are the oil cant cope and the bearings seize.

On Anders car there was severe piston crown failure due to det, nothing to do with oil. Whether the det was due to bad mapping is open to speculation.

harj

Its speculation lads thats ruins companies reputations, the 22 has been serviced monthly since ive had it and it never skipped a beat until that heart ripping moment.

Adam M

I would have thought that an oil cooler would be the best bet in this situation, so I would agree with scott.

Didnt know they were £500, seems a bit much to me. My intercooler shouldn't be a lot more than that!

Especially important witha front mounted intercooler too.

The turbo is actuallt right next to no. 3 cylinder. Assuming a high speed run in top gear, we are close to sustained full boost, which means turbos reaching well in excess of 1000 celsius. Plus there is the heat generated inside the engine itself, and teh fact that the components are under maximum load at 8000 rpm, I would not expect any engine to withstand this for a sustained amount of time.

I would simply assume that the oil is heated beyond its operating temperature and simply breaks down meaning it is no longer an effective lubricant.

I do hope this is the problems with Harj's car as it would mean that the block and a good deal of the short engine will be in fine working order (fingers crossed).

Harj, I would be interested to know what oil was being used if you could let me know.

Hope things work out.

Driving gingerly in mine now .

CraigH

This may be an over-simplification.

If one of the main contributing factors is that the turbo is so close to no.3, is it not possible to develop a heatshield between the 2, that will at least help a little?

Or a cold air feed? Or even just turbo heat wrap?

Most of the pics of big powered Aus/Jap Scoobs seem to have some sort of wrap on the turbos. It must help to some degree.

Scott J Davies

Craig

I agree (**** I must be ill) most Aus Jap mods have heat shields and oil coolers.

Adam

500 notes on your intercooler, is it a blue peter special

SJD

MorayMackenzie

Scott,

If that oilcooler is from Power Engineering, please make sure that they secure the aeroquip hoses away from the aircon rad properly. I had the first kit on a customer car, but they didn't secure the hoses correctly, so the braided hoses eventually wore through the core of my aircon rad, putting it out of service. Another 300 quid I don't want to have to spend.

Adam M

Scott, Its not what you know, its who you know.

And in this case, I am having one made rather than paying someone for a pre-assembled kit with a name and a big markup.

PS. sort it out and come and meet up with us.

I dont believe you are THAT busy.

Scott J Davies

Moray

Nnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooo way

Adam

I am gagging to see the North London super subaru fest meet etc, however I would feel I little bit of a peni5 in my rover 620ti.

My car should be back in a week or so, be still my pet!

CraigH

Scott,

You'd be a bit of a pen15 in a Mclaren F1.

Don't blame the Rover

Kevin Greeley

I very much doubt that heat from the turbo could penetrate the engine block, get past the water 'jacket' around the cylinder and find it's way to no. 3 big end.

Most heat would be generated from combustion within the engine, be transmitted through the pistons into the crank case. Heat is then taken away by the oil and water.

More likely a design problem with the oil supply to no. 3 big end.

Kevin (not an engine expert though).

CraigH

Hmm,

So why did my number 4 go then?

Are the components inside a scoob really good enough for that sort of rev limit?

Without buying and testing these to destruction, we won't find the answer, we can purely speculate and summise.

I for one won't be doing anymore flatout runs, that's for sure.

Diesel

Whats's all this talk of oil coolers? I could swear my STi V has one as standard! I would bloody hope so too!

R19KET

If there is a specific oil feed problem, it's amazing that so few cars have failed, give how many track day hours we run, and how the cars are generally used.....

No.4 also seems prone to failure, like the RA engine I aquired, with no.4 baring now residing in the bottom of the sump....

As an aside, I've been running without the turbo heat shield for about 18 months.

Mark.

CraigH

Was number 4 that went on mine I think.

Would be interesting to see how many that have let go, have done so after a sustained high speed run.

All the ones I know of have gone because of that.