Total Crap Day... :(
10 September 2012, 03:50 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Total Crap Day... :(
Well, after all my excitement about heading through to Andy Forrest for my remap, things didn't go as expected... 
I headed through early, car was driving well. It had had a Pro-R air filter and a Walbro 255 fitted a few weeks ago. Andy started and found that the Engine Check Light had been farted about with. When I got the car (from Forsyth Street Cars, yes I know...) it had a Check Engine Light, the garage agreed to fix whatever was causing that as part of the sale. They sent it out to a garage/auto electrician to sort it. When I picked up the car, the CEL was off. It came on at ignition, but then went out. (the CEL was a bit bright when ignition was started, remember that.)
Anyway, Andy found my car threw a front O2 sensor error, but didn't throw a CEL. We unplugged the MAF and Andy's computer gave the MAF fault, but no CEL. Mmmm.. Andy checked the ECU and it hasn't been farted with. He commented that the ECL was suspiciously bright at ignition switch on and he reckoned the garage had fitted something that allows CEL to come on at ignition, then disables it for normal running. I'm really angry about this, I've been shafted over this and I'm not happy. Now, I can change the O2 sensor that's not a problem, but I need to get rid of the "black box" that is fooling my CEL. Andy reckons it's behind the gauges... Any ideas or has anyone seen this before?
I phoned Forsyth Street Motors and they say the auto electrician charged them £175 to sort the CEL fault. The car had 30 days warranty, expired, but basically they never fixed the fault, they disabled the warning light. The salesman said he would check and get back to me... Yeah right..
Ok, Andy can still map the car and that's fine. He does what he does and then we go for the test drive and he checks and adjusts everything. Everything is going well, 60-80mph etc. etc. I'm doing a run at 80mh and then I come off the power and the car just loses all power, and slows down, we need to pull into the hard shoulder on the dual carriageway.
Andy checks everything, all is ok at his side but seems the fuel pump isn't delivering fuel. We can get the car to idle but under load it stalls. You can hear the pump prime, but under load it just cuts out. No option but to call the RAC and get a wagon.
Unfortunately we have to wait for about and hour and a half for a low loader and makes Andy late for his next appointment, sorry. If you were getting your car mapped this afternoon, huge apologies....
I get my car back to my garage who fitted the fuel pump, they are adamant it was in solid and reckon it's a faulty pump.
I got the Walbro 255 from Lateral Performance and fair enough they are sending out a replacement. (at my cost until fault is found then they will refund). They are surprised and can't say what happened until they see the pump. The pump primes, I can hear it, and I can get it to idle but cuts out under load... One interesting thing is that under advice I reused the existing OEM filter rather than the one that comes with the Walbro. Mark at Lateral said that was nonsense, there had been a problem with classics but not a problem with newages. Thoughts?
So, pump should be replaced tomorrow and then it's back to square 1...
And to prove that these things come in 3's I forget to tell Tracker that I was moving the car by low loader. The annoying thing is that it took Tracker 1 hour 15 mins to tell me my car was being suspiciously moved, the car could have been stripped within that time. NOT HAPPY...
Anyway I've had a crap day and I'm not in a good mood. I will be spending the rest of the evening with my good friend Jack....
I headed through early, car was driving well. It had had a Pro-R air filter and a Walbro 255 fitted a few weeks ago. Andy started and found that the Engine Check Light had been farted about with. When I got the car (from Forsyth Street Cars, yes I know...) it had a Check Engine Light, the garage agreed to fix whatever was causing that as part of the sale. They sent it out to a garage/auto electrician to sort it. When I picked up the car, the CEL was off. It came on at ignition, but then went out. (the CEL was a bit bright when ignition was started, remember that.)
Anyway, Andy found my car threw a front O2 sensor error, but didn't throw a CEL. We unplugged the MAF and Andy's computer gave the MAF fault, but no CEL. Mmmm.. Andy checked the ECU and it hasn't been farted with. He commented that the ECL was suspiciously bright at ignition switch on and he reckoned the garage had fitted something that allows CEL to come on at ignition, then disables it for normal running. I'm really angry about this, I've been shafted over this and I'm not happy. Now, I can change the O2 sensor that's not a problem, but I need to get rid of the "black box" that is fooling my CEL. Andy reckons it's behind the gauges...
Any ideas or has anyone seen this before?I phoned Forsyth Street Motors and they say the auto electrician charged them £175 to sort the CEL fault. The car had 30 days warranty, expired, but basically they never fixed the fault, they disabled the warning light. The salesman said he would check and get back to me... Yeah right..
Ok, Andy can still map the car and that's fine. He does what he does and then we go for the test drive and he checks and adjusts everything. Everything is going well, 60-80mph etc. etc. I'm doing a run at 80mh and then I come off the power and the car just loses all power, and slows down, we need to pull into the hard shoulder on the dual carriageway.
Andy checks everything, all is ok at his side but seems the fuel pump isn't delivering fuel. We can get the car to idle but under load it stalls. You can hear the pump prime, but under load it just cuts out. No option but to call the RAC and get a wagon.
Unfortunately we have to wait for about and hour and a half for a low loader and makes Andy late for his next appointment, sorry.
If you were getting your car mapped this afternoon, huge apologies....I get my car back to my garage who fitted the fuel pump, they are adamant it was in solid and reckon it's a faulty pump.
I got the Walbro 255 from Lateral Performance and fair enough they are sending out a replacement. (at my cost until fault is found then they will refund). They are surprised and can't say what happened until they see the pump. The pump primes, I can hear it, and I can get it to idle but cuts out under load... One interesting thing is that under advice I reused the existing OEM filter rather than the one that comes with the Walbro. Mark at Lateral said that was nonsense, there had been a problem with classics but not a problem with newages. Thoughts?
So, pump should be replaced tomorrow and then it's back to square 1...
And to prove that these things come in 3's I forget to tell Tracker that I was moving the car by low loader. The annoying thing is that it took Tracker 1 hour 15 mins to tell me my car was being suspiciously moved, the car could have been stripped within that time. NOT HAPPY...
Anyway I've had a crap day and I'm not in a good mood. I will be spending the rest of the evening with my good friend Jack....
Last edited by The Tog; 10 September 2012 at 03:53 PM.
10 September 2012, 04:08 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 3,221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most definately! Utter deceit from a dealer by there imo!! I know that people have put inline resistors to the circuits to the cell which allow the light to come on during ignition and will go out as soon as car is running, had it happen to me on a derv vauxhall we had, i know its not ideal but have you tried disconecting another circuit that would normally throw the cell on?? May be the same case with yours?? Just a thought from a previous experience!! As it masks all the codes iirc 
and wont throw the light on.
I hope you get to the bottom of it and all works out well for you fella!
and wont throw the light on.I hope you get to the bottom of it and all works out well for you fella!
10 September 2012, 04:39 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well if its behind the gauges its a 2 minute job to get them out if you want to look? Two screws to get the fascia off, 3 behind that, 3 different shaped (so you can't get it wrong) plugs and its out.....don't know if that helps but atleast you can have a look
Trending Topics
10 September 2012, 05:03 PM
#8
If the vehicles CEL light has been adjusted to hide codes you got 100% air tight case.
But can you proove it was the sparky who did it? Thats the only tricky item.
However, If car went to dealer with CEL light on, then it was removed or turned off... you got a case.
But can you proove it was the sparky who did it? Thats the only tricky item.
However, If car went to dealer with CEL light on, then it was removed or turned off... you got a case.
10 September 2012, 05:08 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most definately! Utter deceit from a dealer by there imo!! I know that people have put inline resistors to the circuits to the cell which allow the light to come on during ignition and will go out as soon as car is running, had it happen to me on a derv vauxhall we had, i know its not ideal but have you tried disconecting another circuit that would normally throw the cell on?? May be the same case with yours?? Just a thought from a previous experience!! As it masks all the codes iirc and wont throw the light on.
I hope you get to the bottom of it and all works out well for you fella!
and wont throw the light on.I hope you get to the bottom of it and all works out well for you fella!
So it's as simple as putting an inline resistor which will replicate these results? Would that make the bulb brighter, would have thought the bulb would have been dimmer?
Anyway, my mechanic is checking it out... I'm really angry at this garage. This could have had disastrous results....
10 September 2012, 05:26 PM
#12
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 3,221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tbh i never noticed the brightness of the bulb, but it was like it from the time i bought it until i discovered it had an issue and wouldn flag up the cel, one machine we tried to use to get possible codes up would not even connect through the dl16 plug because the voltage was wrong being fed back to the machine which in turn led us to beleive there was a problem with the plug its self in the car, took it to another place with more equipt machines i suppose and there machine picked it up straight away, again showing incorrect voltage through the circuit tho, which is why it wouldn throw the cell because it was not making a complete circuit if that makes any sense to you?? Im not an expert at this by any means but have been burnt by a very similar instance to yourself, it turned out they had put inline resistors in to one of the circuits to show the cel when ignition on and would go out when running, bit like a dummy sensor i suppose to trick the ecu in to beleiving there was no problems, or just not throw the light on for what ever reason, guys found the problem by tracing wires back behind clocks in to top of dash where it was neatly hidden away the *******!!
There are some proper cowboys out there these days, like tommy said above its not worth the friggin hassle, hope u catch the gits out and get your car put right fella
There are some proper cowboys out there these days, like tommy said above its not worth the friggin hassle, hope u catch the gits out and get your car put right fella
10 September 2012, 05:47 PM
#13
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tbh i never noticed the brightness of the bulb, but it was like it from the time i bought it until i discovered it had an issue and wouldn flag up the cel, one machine we tried to use to get possible codes up would not even connect through the dl16 plug because the voltage was wrong being fed back to the machine which in turn led us to beleive there was a problem with the plug its self in the car, took it to another place with more equipt machines i suppose and there machine picked it up straight away, again showing incorrect voltage through the circuit tho, which is why it wouldn throw the cell because it was not making a complete circuit if that makes any sense to you?? Im not an expert at this by any means but have been burnt by a very similar instance to yourself, it turned out they had put inline resistors in to one of the circuits to show the cel when ignition on and would go out when running, bit like a dummy sensor i suppose to trick the ecu in to beleiving there was no problems, or just not throw the light on for what ever reason, guys found the problem by tracing wires back behind clocks in to top of dash where it was neatly hidden away the *******!!
There are some proper cowboys out there these days, like tommy said above its not worth the friggin hassle, hope u catch the gits out and get your car put right fella
There are some proper cowboys out there these days, like tommy said above its not worth the friggin hassle, hope u catch the gits out and get your car put right fella
Interesting, I phoned the salesman and told him that my garage had found tampering with the CEL and they were taking pictures and preparing a report. He assures me that he is still looking into it and will get back to me.
My original receipt contains the following...
"Engine management light to be checked and any fault repaired"
Now, even if this is after the 30 day warranty, and the fact the car had a CEL when I viewed it, not there when I picked it up, the car was bodged in their care. Ah well, looks like Trading Standards to me...
10 September 2012, 06:29 PM
#16
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 3,221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Technically not no, providing it was that much out on the o2 reading when gas analyser goes up exhaust, wouldnt have thought so tho with a knackered o2 sensor on it tbh............
Last edited by Infected by sti; 10 September 2012 at 06:30 PM.
10 September 2012, 06:54 PM
#17
so it may still pass the mot.
either way its an unacceptable bodge and probably cheaper and easier to fix the problem correctly so begs the question why do it this way is it to hide something more sinister???
10 September 2012, 07:10 PM
#18
If you bought the car from a dealer i thought you had a 3 month warranty by law? Correct me if i'm wrong? My uncle bought a car with a problem not so long ago and was told he only had a 30 day warranty but when he looked into it by law it was 3 months minimum and they repaired the problem. Like i say i could be wrong
10 September 2012, 07:26 PM
#19
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've just spoken to a pal who used to work in the second hand car market. He tells me that it's common practice in certain small back street garages to connect the CEL light to the Alternator light, so in effect the CEL light mimics the charge/alternator light. This could account for the brighter light as it could be getting a higher voltage than it would get from the ECU. That make sense? He reckons that's what has happened as it's quick and dirty. They reckon most folk will never find out.
10 September 2012, 07:28 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: .
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You get six months warranty on used cars (not £750 runarounds, but anything worth a reasonable amount) under the Sale of Goods Act, regardless of the rubbish car dealers spout.
Ask on here if there's any quibbling:-
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/ke...ord=warranties
Ask on here if there's any quibbling:-
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/ke...ord=warranties
10 September 2012, 07:31 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cheers for that, I'll be gathering the evidence and going for it. I'm not letting them near my car, but want them to repay the amount I pay for fitting O2 sensor....
10 September 2012, 08:25 PM
#22
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: .
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd check with Honest John first then, as there are certain conditions you have to comply with in terms of giving the dealer the chance to rectify the faults.
10 September 2012, 11:48 PM
#24
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, looking on the bright side, at least I caught it now. If I hadn't had the car remapped I would never have found out until a potential big bang. Also, the previous owner had fully decatted and never remapped the car. Thankfully Andy checked everything thoroughly and all seems to be well apart from the O2 sensor.
One thing, I'm getting all this sorted and then it's a set of gauges and a OBDII reader...
One thing, I'm getting all this sorted and then it's a set of gauges and a OBDII reader...
11 September 2012, 07:25 PM
#25
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, my car is back. Thanks to Mark at Lateral Performance for rushing out a replacement overnight and my mechanic fitting the car in, I got my car back all sorted this afternoon. It turns out the fuel pump WAS faulty, when he tested it it wasn't lifting fuel, new one in and working faultlessly. Well checked and all seems good. Strange that the previous fuel pump failed after a week, however I noticed that this one is a fair bit louder when it primes than the last one. It seems that it was ok normal driving but when I cranked up the boost then it failed.
My mechanic also stripped the dash and can find no trace of the CEL bypass. This is weird as he can't find any error codes for the front O2 sensor, everything is all clear now. So, if no farting around at the dash clocks, and no mods at the ecu, where can it be??? This is weird. I'm going to have to get a OBDII wifi adaptor and software for my iphone and monitor the codes. The thing is my mechanic test drove it and everything is running fine, the car boosts well, doesn't smoke, smooth as anything, get great fuel economy, it all runs beautifully.
I really don't know what's going on. Anyway, just waiting on Andy Forrest fitting me in again to finish the mapping and hopefully I don't kill this fuel pump...
My mechanic also stripped the dash and can find no trace of the CEL bypass. This is weird as he can't find any error codes for the front O2 sensor, everything is all clear now. So, if no farting around at the dash clocks, and no mods at the ecu, where can it be??? This is weird. I'm going to have to get a OBDII wifi adaptor and software for my iphone and monitor the codes. The thing is my mechanic test drove it and everything is running fine, the car boosts well, doesn't smoke, smooth as anything, get great fuel economy, it all runs beautifully.
I really don't know what's going on. Anyway, just waiting on Andy Forrest fitting me in again to finish the mapping and hopefully I don't kill this fuel pump...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
