Scooby

I had the opportunity to take a P1 out for a test drive recently for evaluation purposes.

In many departments I felt that the P1 is inferior to my current car an RB5 WR Sport.

For Example:

The P1 felt sluggish at low revs - RB5 feels like it offers more Torque.

Interior trim in the P1 was bland - The Grey just doesn't cut it.

Those driving lights aren't a patch on PIAA's

In it's defense:

The P1 does offer variable intermittent Wash/Wipe and the rear wiper, which the standard car should have as standard.

The only major plus I did detect was the ride quality. The ride seemed less harsh and more self assured than that of my RB5, and therefore would inspire greater confidence.

Does anyone know the major differences between the P1 and RB5's suspension set-ups?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

GaryC

P1 - played with STi set-up, tailored for UK's crap roads.
RB5 WR - Std turbo suspension

Big difference IMO

mutant_matt

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GaryC:
<B>RB5 WR - Std turbo suspension[/quote]

RB5 non WR - Standard UK Turbo suspension
RB5 WR - Bilstein Dampers and Eibach springs

Matt.

ScoobyJawa

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Scooby:
<B>The P1 does offer variable intermittent Wash/Wipe and the rear wiper, which the standard car should have as standard.
confidence.[/quote]

Thats the one thing I miss on the Scooby from my old car - the rear wiper!! Oh, and the heated door mirrors!!!

ozzy

As far as I was aware, the RB5 suspension was the exact same as a std MY99 uk turbo.

Although I do remember a post many moons ago where someone replaced the RB5 suspension with Ledas and noticed the RB5 part# was different to the MY99 turbo.

Personally I can't tell the difference between my RB5 and a std turbo as far as the suspension goes.

What I do feel is difference between tyres and especially tyre pressure.

I would imagine the P1's STI suspension would be a lot better though. Wonder how the managed to tweak the suspension for pot-holed, wet and dirty UK roads

Stefan

GaryC

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mutant_matt:
<B>
RB5 WR - Bilstein Dampers and Eibach springs

[/quote]

...only if fitted with the driving enhancement package as an extra

The RB5 WR only gave you the PPP and WR spoiler above the std RB5. All magazine testing it said it handled better than a std UK car, but commented the only difference was the 17" wheels

ozzy

mutant_matt,

Are you sure the WR has billies?

The WR was £2.5K extra and can't see them giving the PPP, Spolier AND billies for that kind of money. Buying them now would cost over £4K !!

Stefan

ozzy

thought so.

RB170

Guess I'm a lucky chappy then
I bought a RB5 WR second hand and I have Bilstein Dampers and Eibach springs....

Cool....

[This message has been edited by RB170 (edited 28 March 2001).]

mutant_matt

I'm pretty certain that the RB5 WR comes with the cosmetic RB5 stuff plus the PPP (BB, de-cat centre, ECU, Intercooler piping), the 17" wheels and the suspension package (Billies and Eibachs).

Matt

Scott J Davies

I can confir with MM and RB170 (Arboo big M)

Whether or not I'm right is another matter

Of course I'm right I'm always right!

No your not!

Sorry I have gone Schyzo bananas

Dribble Dribble

Bajie

I've got a 98 Terzo with all the Prodrive enhancements.
Took a P1 our last week and bluntly put, the P1 is leagues ahead.
And the noise it makes ... pure music.
I found the P1 to be more responsive, and very much quicker through the gears.
Bends were no problem, it is an easy car to drive, er ... quickly.
I thought the suspension setups were the same on the RB5 WR and P1.
I was thinking the main difference was due to the torque split being 50/50 in the P1.

kryten

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mutant_matt:
<B>I'm pretty certain that the RB5 WR comes with the cosmetic RB5 stuff plus the PPP (BB, de-cat centre, ECU, Intercooler piping), the 17" wheels and the suspension package (Billies and Eibachs).

Matt [/quote]

Well, my RB5 WR is sat on the drive: how do I tell if its got the Billstein/Eibach suspension??

Scooby

Oh and that's another thing I forgot to mention, the P1 sounded very tame - even quieter than my previous MY96 Turbo.

In stark contrast the exhaust system on the RB5 WR is much throatier and purposeful.

Now perhaps this may be due to lack of miles on the P1, but even when running in my RB5 I am certain it sounded sweeter.

There seems to be a great deal of varying views on the suspension set-ups, perhaps if Prodrive are reading this, they can enlighten us.

mutant_matt

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Scooby:
<B>Oh and that's another thing I forgot to mention, the P1 sounded very tame - even quieter than my previous MY96 Turbo.

In stark contrast the exhaust system on the RB5 WR is much throatier and purposeful.

Now perhaps this may be due to lack of miles on the P1, but even when running in my RB5 I am certain it sounded sweeter.[/quote]

You're right - the P1 is pretty quiet (well compared to any of the aftermarket/PPP stuff anyway)....

Kryten, your RB should look a lot lower than a standard UK Scoob - other then getting up close and personal to the dampers or getting some measuring equipment out, it's not that easy.

Bajie, I'm farily certain that the P1 has different dampers and springs again (still Billies and Eibachs I think) carefully selected by Prodrive.

Dangerous D - care to comment?

Matt

Steve Breen

The RB5 whether WR or standard has 17in wheels and standard MY99 suspension. If it has anything else then it has been upgraded. As specified above the RB5 WR package included only PPP and rear wing.

The P1 has STi dampers plus Prodrive sourced springs as nothing in the Subaru parts bin cut it. They are lower and stiffer than the ones fitted to standard STi.

comparing the P1 to a UK specification car with PPP is chalk and cheese. One has a peaky power curve with an 8000rpm rev limit and the other has lots of low down grunt but flattens off. The STi engine in the P1 just loves being revved. 3rd gear is I have to say my favourite gear.

Steve (P1)

Kundra

Scooby,

If you want a comparison of the two cars come and drive mine. It sounds like the P1 you drove was straight out of the box i.e. standard.

You need to drive one with after market downpipe, exhaust and filter, this is when you will see the difference........

Scooby

Steve

Thanks for the clarification on the engine characteristics, I was more than a little surprised by the low down sluggish behaviour.

I know which characteristics I prefer for drivability in the majority of scenario's.

I suspected the ride difference was down to damping, perhaps I'll upgrade accordingly.

Having tested the P1, I can now identify with those Motoring Journalists who stated that the WR version of the P1 was the car that the P1 always should have been. I hope that IM take note and ensure that any future P1 equivalents (official STi's etc.) are a significant step up from standard specs (including PPP'd versions).

Shark

Oh dear

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>The P1 felt sluggish at low revs - RB5 feels like it offers more Torque.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The P1 knocks the socks of a UK PPP, end of.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Interior trim in the P1 was bland - The Grey just doesn't cut it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trim is a very personal issue, IMHO I like the P1 trim. Esp the Prodrive logo on the front seats.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Those driving lights aren't a patch on PIAA's<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true!!

As far as I am aware the RB5 WR was the same suspension as the RB5, unless you went for the driving package as well.

I think Steve is right when he says that the P1 is STi struts and Prodrive springs.

I'm not realy the person to ask about how suspension feels near the limit. I'd be the first to admit that I have no idea on how to 'push' the car to the edge of it's handling capicity. I tend to take it easy in the bends.

I'll check this tomorrow and post again if im wrong.

Now on a lighter note - has Scott J Davis finaly fliped or what

David

[This message has been edited by Shark (edited 29 March 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Shark (edited 29 March 2001).]

Scooby

Can't agree with you knocks spots off ascertion, as my original contention states.

Therefore I would say that a UK spec car with the PPP mods offer very much better value for money. With the rest of the money you will have saved by not buying a P1, you could make any UK standard spec car unbeatable (goes for STi imports too - although they are ahead of the game already)

[This message has been edited by Scooby (edited 02 April 2001).]

Bajie

Scooby.

I'm not too sure if I can agree with you.
I haven't yet driven an STi but I can assure you the P1 is very much more responsive than my UK PPP.
I like the interior because the rev counter is predominant.
No leather seats though

GaryC

Performance VFM a 99/00 PPP IS a better bet than a P1, until the P1 comes down to a more realistic price of c27/28k.

My MY99PPP+downpipe+I/K+straight thro centre was more than a match for a P1 in a straight line, and on track, given the above can now be had for c21k, its a no-brainer

Even a P1 owner who drove mine commented how much more 'grunt' it had!

P1 has the exclusivity, better handling etc etc etc, but for straight performance a modded PPP has it, similar BHP and a whole truck load more torque

NITO

Someone say exclusivity

It's dead easy to see if your RB5 has the billies or not without getting out measuring equipment. The prodrive suspension package on 97 cars onwards had Silver Bilstein dampers and Blue springs!!

Nito

Chins

Think we might of had the discussion of UK car with PPP vs STI/P1

My take after owning an RB5WR, STI V and P1 would be.

RB5 WR has smaller turbo, and much better low down torque. The P1 and STI have the larger Turbo and more lag.

Gary's comments about having the roughly the same straight line speed as a P1 would be true. When I dyno'd my RB5 WR and compared to the STI V I had loads more torque low down and most of the way up the rev range. Power wise it was pretty similar to 5800 rpm's. The STI just kept going. Therefore you do need to rev the nuts of it to gain an advantage. But if you add the same exhaust mods as Gary has to his UK car, the STI/P1 will start to have an advantage.

Driving wise the P1 always felt more fun as I enjoyed the lag and slightly shorter gearing. It make for a feeling of a more fiercely accelerating car.

Was the P1 worth the extra cash. Yes it was. Yes it lost money, but when you look at the cost of a car, the money it lost over the months I had it was in line with a UK car.

Gary's own case of the deprecation on a car brought up to roughly the same std as a P1 is a case in point - it might even of cost him less money owning a P1. The P1 looks great, had the 2 door styling and was the car that showed the EVO VI true extent of its limitations. There was always something special about driving a P1 that money didnt come into the equation.

Jonathan

Andrew O'Hara

Maybe the P1 was a bit over priced and everyone says a P1 is only worth around £26k-£27k but I'd still like to see a good one for that money.

As for performance comparisons I would like to see a PPP UK car with down pipe, straight through and upgraded rear box compared to a P1 with the same dp, centre and rear box with obvoiusly a std ecu. I'll go with Shark on this one and say I believe there will be no comparison. Why does everyone slate the P1 so much, until you own one and drive it for a while you wont know what it's like
Sorry rant over

Chins

Andrew

I'm afraid Shark is wrong end of. I'm not slating the P1 far from it as in my 14 cars over the past 3 years its still the best Ive owned. My STI V had the mentioned mods suggested by you, it was quicker than the RB5 WR, but not by a huge amount. Day to day driving the RB5 was the more drivable.

I would still always buy a P1 over the RB5, for the complete package. It does feel quicker, and hence more fun, but in the real world and on track there was never a lot in it.

Jonathan

[This message has been edited by Chins (edited 02 April 2001).]