Knockhill was my last SIDC track day - Shame :-(
19 March 2001, 04:03 PM
#1
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Just read my copy of true grip, page 5. I hope the SIDC does not object to me copying this section of the magazine, if it does then I will remove it. I think it is better putting this down word for word than my own interpretation to be 100% fair to the club.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>What has gone wrong is that we have had a gradual influx of non-Impreza members who have joined the club merely to gain access to our track days. I must stress that we have many non-Impreza owners, who have been members for a number of years and these guys are very much part of the family. The problem is that we do not want to drift towards replicating the commercial track days. On some of these, you can be happily learning the circuit and getting a feel for your car's handling, when the bottom of your rear view mirror is suddenly filled with a bit of fibreglass putting out over 5OObhp per ton. Apart from the reliability of many of these machines, their power disparity can be so vast that it is neither fun nor safe for them to be driving flat out in our company.
Therefore, it is the SIDC's plan to give track day priority to all Impreza driving members and members who do not own Imprezas, but who joined before October 2000. We feel that this move will continue to encourage Impreza driving members to experience track days and to make use of our ARDS instructor network. Like all organisations, commercial pressures bind us too. If a track day is not fully subscribed, we will invite non Impreza cars to the day, but BHLG have already advised the Club that this will not be possible at their circuits. The Club remains committed to providing safe, cheap, well run events for Impreza drivers and we feel this move will help safeguard the future of SIDC track days.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the above comments are using me as an example so I think it is only appropriate I make some form of comment, that is unless you know of anyone else driving a 500BHP/tonne glassfibre car that regularly attends Our track events.
I would like to say before you read my comments on this I have the utmost respect for Pete Croney and the rest of the Committee of the SIDC, this is not me having a go at them personally, this is me questioning the reasoning used above, nothing more.
First of all, the above statement excludes me from attending any future SIDC track events on a first come first served basis as I joined the SIDC in January. I have been a very active member of the Impreza community for 18 months now, giving my time and advice freely both via this BBS and at the many track days I attend. I just never got round to joining the club as the benefits to me weren’t that massive, I know the technical sides to the cars well and my Impreza is a company car so the discounts were of no incentive.
I question the October 2000 cut off date from the perspective that I joined the club before any changes to policy were made public, to change the terms of membership retrospectively I find distasteful.
The above statement is also implying that the club feels it is unsafe for me to be sharing the track with lower spec cars. History does not bear this point out. I have been driving on track events for nearly 8 years now, in that time I have driven cars ranging from 2 litre Manta’s, Sierra XR4x4’s, Sapphire Cosworths, Lotus Elises, many Impreza’s including the 22B we all know plus my current car, the westfield Zei220. During this 8 years I have never been involved in any incident with another car, I have never red flagged a session at any UK circuit. I respect every other participant on the track whether they be a newbie learning the ropes or an experienced person in a car less capable than my own.
The logic being used above is stating that from a safety point of view cars like mine should not be on track with Impreza’s, yet it then goes on to say that if places are unfilled I may then be invited to attend to make up the numbers. Make your mind up, is it unsafe or not for me to be there? Using safety in the way it is stated above firstly is not historically correct and quite plainly isn’t the real reason behind the decision, otherwise blanket exclusion would have been made.
I also dispute the statement that it is not fun for Impreza drivers to be caught and passed by cars like mine, that’s not the feedback I receive at track or on this BBS, in fact very much the opposite.
So I am now consigned to the reserve lists, even if I am the first person to put my name down against an SIDC track event. In these circumstances I will not be attending any future track days run by the SIDC, be it Donington, Croft, Knockhill or whatever because I am not prepared to arrange my time around something that may be on, but only if you guys are in the **** and need to fill places. I don’t live my life in that way, I like to know what I am doing is concrete, I am too busy for pissing about wondering what I am doing.
This is a big disappointment to me, especially coming the day after having attended such a well run event by the SIDC at knockhill and enjoying the company of the many members I met up in Edinburgh. Damn shame.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>What has gone wrong is that we have had a gradual influx of non-Impreza members who have joined the club merely to gain access to our track days. I must stress that we have many non-Impreza owners, who have been members for a number of years and these guys are very much part of the family. The problem is that we do not want to drift towards replicating the commercial track days. On some of these, you can be happily learning the circuit and getting a feel for your car's handling, when the bottom of your rear view mirror is suddenly filled with a bit of fibreglass putting out over 5OObhp per ton. Apart from the reliability of many of these machines, their power disparity can be so vast that it is neither fun nor safe for them to be driving flat out in our company.
Therefore, it is the SIDC's plan to give track day priority to all Impreza driving members and members who do not own Imprezas, but who joined before October 2000. We feel that this move will continue to encourage Impreza driving members to experience track days and to make use of our ARDS instructor network. Like all organisations, commercial pressures bind us too. If a track day is not fully subscribed, we will invite non Impreza cars to the day, but BHLG have already advised the Club that this will not be possible at their circuits. The Club remains committed to providing safe, cheap, well run events for Impreza drivers and we feel this move will help safeguard the future of SIDC track days.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the above comments are using me as an example so I think it is only appropriate I make some form of comment, that is unless you know of anyone else driving a 500BHP/tonne glassfibre car that regularly attends Our track events.
I would like to say before you read my comments on this I have the utmost respect for Pete Croney and the rest of the Committee of the SIDC, this is not me having a go at them personally, this is me questioning the reasoning used above, nothing more.
First of all, the above statement excludes me from attending any future SIDC track events on a first come first served basis as I joined the SIDC in January. I have been a very active member of the Impreza community for 18 months now, giving my time and advice freely both via this BBS and at the many track days I attend. I just never got round to joining the club as the benefits to me weren’t that massive, I know the technical sides to the cars well and my Impreza is a company car so the discounts were of no incentive.
I question the October 2000 cut off date from the perspective that I joined the club before any changes to policy were made public, to change the terms of membership retrospectively I find distasteful.
The above statement is also implying that the club feels it is unsafe for me to be sharing the track with lower spec cars. History does not bear this point out. I have been driving on track events for nearly 8 years now, in that time I have driven cars ranging from 2 litre Manta’s, Sierra XR4x4’s, Sapphire Cosworths, Lotus Elises, many Impreza’s including the 22B we all know plus my current car, the westfield Zei220. During this 8 years I have never been involved in any incident with another car, I have never red flagged a session at any UK circuit. I respect every other participant on the track whether they be a newbie learning the ropes or an experienced person in a car less capable than my own.
The logic being used above is stating that from a safety point of view cars like mine should not be on track with Impreza’s, yet it then goes on to say that if places are unfilled I may then be invited to attend to make up the numbers. Make your mind up, is it unsafe or not for me to be there? Using safety in the way it is stated above firstly is not historically correct and quite plainly isn’t the real reason behind the decision, otherwise blanket exclusion would have been made.
I also dispute the statement that it is not fun for Impreza drivers to be caught and passed by cars like mine, that’s not the feedback I receive at track or on this BBS, in fact very much the opposite.
So I am now consigned to the reserve lists, even if I am the first person to put my name down against an SIDC track event. In these circumstances I will not be attending any future track days run by the SIDC, be it Donington, Croft, Knockhill or whatever because I am not prepared to arrange my time around something that may be on, but only if you guys are in the **** and need to fill places. I don’t live my life in that way, I like to know what I am doing is concrete, I am too busy for pissing about wondering what I am doing.
This is a big disappointment to me, especially coming the day after having attended such a well run event by the SIDC at knockhill and enjoying the company of the many members I met up in Edinburgh. Damn shame.
19 March 2001, 04:18 PM
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Sorry to hear that John, Knockhill was the first track day I have ever been to, and one of the highlights was watching your car. Having never been on track I can't comment, but must say I don't understand their reasoning.
19 March 2001, 05:07 PM
#4
John,
you would always be made more than welcome at the events at Knockhill, as the economics of running events there mean that an all Impreza field would simply not be practical.
It is true that SIDC members get priority for places, but at all the previous events, the maximum reserve list has only been two people. Now that an event has been successfully run with the amount of people we have on Saturday (the track was never too busy), I can't forsee us ever needing a reserve list in the future, unless you decide someone decides they only wish to take part a few days before an event. They are usually booked several months in advance.
John
you would always be made more than welcome at the events at Knockhill, as the economics of running events there mean that an all Impreza field would simply not be practical.
It is true that SIDC members get priority for places, but at all the previous events, the maximum reserve list has only been two people. Now that an event has been successfully run with the amount of people we have on Saturday (the track was never too busy), I can't forsee us ever needing a reserve list in the future, unless you decide someone decides they only wish to take part a few days before an event. They are usually booked several months in advance.
John
19 March 2001, 05:24 PM
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John.
But you own and drive an Impreza, dont you? So doesn't that make you eligible?
Edited due to cr4p spelling
[This message has been edited by DavidLewis (edited 19 March 2001).]
But you own and drive an Impreza, dont you? So doesn't that make you eligible?
Edited due to cr4p spelling
[This message has been edited by DavidLewis (edited 19 March 2001).]
19 March 2001, 05:29 PM
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I have mixed views on this, however I think the principle is that the SIDC are trying to stop non Impreza owning people joining the SIDC purely to get access to cheap well run track days, which I fully agree with, it's not the cheap track day drivers club.
John, have you chatted with Stef or Pete about this at all?
cheers,
Greg
John, have you chatted with Stef or Pete about this at all?
cheers,
Greg
19 March 2001, 05:38 PM
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Thanks John, nice to know i will still be welcome north of the border, no strings attached.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Therefore, it is the SIDC's plan to give track day priority to all Impreza driving members and members who do not own Imprezas, but who joined before October 2000<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The way this has been put accross to me is that only if i were driving an Impreza <B>on track</B> would i be put on the normal entry list.
Now there is no way i would want to drive my Impreza on track when i have a purpose built car sat in the garage, that would be a ludicrous thing to do. I doubt my employers would be too chuffed either.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Therefore, it is the SIDC's plan to give track day priority to all Impreza driving members and members who do not own Imprezas, but who joined before October 2000<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The way this has been put accross to me is that only if i were driving an Impreza <B>on track</B> would i be put on the normal entry list.
Now there is no way i would want to drive my Impreza on track when i have a purpose built car sat in the garage, that would be a ludicrous thing to do. I doubt my employers would be too chuffed either.
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19 March 2001, 05:56 PM
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I have never met such a nice bloke who is willing to give his time to listen to anyones problems with their cars. Johns advice will be sorely missed I am sure but not only that I feel we lose a "proper good bloke" from the frey.
I half understand the reasoning behind it however I feel that perhaps the wording is aimed at Johnny somewhat (fibre glass does not refer to Dingy for instance)
Shame.
John, can we whack the westy engine in your scoob or how about making the scoob the fastest sport around. You know as well as I do you can make that work alongside a uk pound for pound.
ahhhh *sighs* .
I half understand the reasoning behind it however I feel that perhaps the wording is aimed at Johnny somewhat (fibre glass does not refer to Dingy for instance)
Shame.
John, can we whack the westy engine in your scoob or how about making the scoob the fastest sport around. You know as well as I do you can make that work alongside a uk pound for pound.
ahhhh *sighs* .
19 March 2001, 06:01 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by gregh:
<B>I think the principle is that the SIDC are trying to stop non Impreza owning people joining the SIDC purely to get access to cheap well run track days[/quote]
This is also how I've interpreted the new ruling. As an Impreza owner, I would think you were still entitled to track time like the rest of us, even driving the westie (well I hope so)
Has Pete or Stef actually said you are now "demoted" to the reserve list?
<B>I think the principle is that the SIDC are trying to stop non Impreza owning people joining the SIDC purely to get access to cheap well run track days[/quote]
This is also how I've interpreted the new ruling. As an Impreza owner, I would think you were still entitled to track time like the rest of us, even driving the westie (well I hope so)
Has Pete or Stef actually said you are now "demoted" to the reserve list?
19 March 2001, 06:38 PM
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hi john
i don't understand this at all. a track full of subarus laping behind each other in perfect harmony is quite boring actually unless they are all in the same colour. and one of the best thing about the last knockhill day was the variety which i am sure everybody enjoyed 
why does not the club just close the membership for non scooby owners from now on and that is it ? is not that easier than all the confusion they are causing everybody and themselves.
i don't understand this at all. a track full of subarus laping behind each other in perfect harmony is quite boring actually unless they are all in the same colour
. and one of the best thing about the last knockhill day was the variety which i am sure everybody enjoyed why does not the club just close the membership for non scooby owners from now on and that is it ? is not that easier than all the confusion they are causing everybody and themselves.
19 March 2001, 06:43 PM
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hi john
i don't understand this at all. a track full of subarus laping behind each other in perfect harmony is quite boring actually unless they are all in the same colour. and one of the best thing about the last knockhill day was the variety which i am sure everybody enjoyed
why does not the club just close the membership for non scooby owners from now on and that is it ? is not that easier than all the confusion they are causing everybody and themselves.
i don't understand this at all. a track full of subarus laping behind each other in perfect harmony is quite boring actually unless they are all in the same colour
. and one of the best thing about the last knockhill day was the variety which i am sure everybody enjoyed why does not the club just close the membership for non scooby owners from now on and that is it ? is not that easier than all the confusion they are causing everybody and themselves.
19 March 2001, 08:42 PM
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I have not spoken to Pete personally, but its pretty obvious to me who he was refering to in the article. Or am i being paranoid?
I knew this was coming some time ago when the original speculation surfaced on here, i was in the USA at the time.
When i came home i posted a question on here to ask for clarification as i hadnt been informed in writing of any changes.
Pete replied by asking me to wait for the oficial anouncement in true grip so i kept quiet about this till today.
As i understand the current situation i am demoted to the reserves, i spent the last few days with Stef up in scotland but only read the article this morning so we havent discussed it since true grip came out. The last time we spoke was before any official anouncemnet was made, at that time i was not classed as someone they could accomodate as a guaranteed booking. I have not been informed that this is now not the case.
I knew this was coming some time ago when the original speculation surfaced on here, i was in the USA at the time.
When i came home i posted a question on here to ask for clarification as i hadnt been informed in writing of any changes.
Pete replied by asking me to wait for the oficial anouncement in true grip so i kept quiet about this till today.
As i understand the current situation i am demoted to the reserves, i spent the last few days with Stef up in scotland but only read the article this morning so we havent discussed it since true grip came out. The last time we spoke was before any official anouncemnet was made, at that time i was not classed as someone they could accomodate as a guaranteed booking. I have not been informed that this is now not the case.
19 March 2001, 08:52 PM
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I am not so sure on that Richard, weren't you a member before the October 2000 date??
Thats even more of a bummer actually as i was so looking forward to driving the RS200 on track and compairing it to the 22B's etc.
What are they going to do with me if i attend as a driver of the RS200 with you, as we had planned. Bit messy this having a retrospective cut off date!
Also, how would they handle us booking the 22B on track then having a late problem with the car and having to use the RS200?
Thats even more of a bummer actually as i was so looking forward to driving the RS200 on track and compairing it to the 22B's etc.
What are they going to do with me if i attend as a driver of the RS200 with you, as we had planned. Bit messy this having a retrospective cut off date!
Also, how would they handle us booking the 22B on track then having a late problem with the car and having to use the RS200?
19 March 2001, 08:58 PM
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Who else apart from John does this refer to?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>On some of these, you can be happily learning the circuit and getting a feel for your car's handling, when the bottom of your rear view mirror is suddenly filled with a bit of fibreglass putting out over 5OObhp per ton. Apart from the reliability of many of these machines, their power disparity can be so vast that it is neither fun nor safe for them to be driving flat out in our company.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not Elises, not Cossies, not Lancers / EVO's, who then?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>On some of these, you can be happily learning the circuit and getting a feel for your car's handling, when the bottom of your rear view mirror is suddenly filled with a bit of fibreglass putting out over 5OObhp per ton. Apart from the reliability of many of these machines, their power disparity can be so vast that it is neither fun nor safe for them to be driving flat out in our company.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not Elises, not Cossies, not Lancers / EVO's, who then?
19 March 2001, 08:58 PM
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OK, I was gonna write my reply to JF privately, not being an SIDC member myself. But then I thought ... what the hey.
First of all, this situation saddens me quite a bit, because I respect both SIDC and John.
That out of the way, I think JF has got a small point. If his plastic pig - and from the description above, it would really seem that it is his car that is "targeted" - is unsafe when there are many takers, it would be equally unsafe if the list is not full. You either ban if full stop, or you don't.
My take on this: SIDC is a scoob club in the first place. Their main intrest is Subaru drivers.
Scoobynet, while the primary focus is still on scoobs, has become a community that goes way beyond that. (the most prestigious forum is even moderated by an Evo driver :eek
)
People have come to like JF, TypeR, Rainman, list goes on... quite a bit and do feel it a bit unjust that these guys are automatically put on a reserve list.
Problem is: there is no easy solution for this. SIDC is not about "but he is such a nice bloke". By nature, it is trying to put Subaru drivers first, nothing wrong with that. But most unfortunate for others. The word "sucktitudenality" comes to mind.
Don't hold your breath though, I have no solution for this.
And John, stop whining You just found yourself more time for Ring driving.
Kidding aside, this situation blows. Wise men, cometh forward !
Theo
First of all, this situation saddens me quite a bit, because I respect both SIDC and John.
That out of the way, I think JF has got a small point. If his plastic pig - and from the description above, it would really seem that it is his car that is "targeted" - is unsafe when there are many takers, it would be equally unsafe if the list is not full. You either ban if full stop, or you don't.
My take on this: SIDC is a scoob club in the first place. Their main intrest is Subaru drivers.
Scoobynet, while the primary focus is still on scoobs, has become a community that goes way beyond that. (the most prestigious forum is even moderated by an Evo driver :eek
)People have come to like JF, TypeR, Rainman, list goes on... quite a bit and do feel it a bit unjust that these guys are automatically put on a reserve list.
Problem is: there is no easy solution for this. SIDC is not about "but he is such a nice bloke". By nature, it is trying to put Subaru drivers first, nothing wrong with that. But most unfortunate for others. The word "sucktitudenality" comes to mind.
Don't hold your breath though, I have no solution for this.
And John, stop whining
You just found yourself more time for Ring driving. Kidding aside, this situation blows. Wise men, cometh forward !
Theo
19 March 2001, 09:05 PM
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Is this a plan, or is it now law ?
Surely a change like this should be put to the membership ?.
Can the club make a change like this without a full members vote ?
I do agree with the plan for stopping members joining for cheap track days, and there has to be a cut off date. Not sure I would agree with you John on not seeing the benefits of joining before you did. Even though at points I go through non Impreza ownership, I still pay my subs. Pete and crew have given lots of free time to the SIDC and sorting out trackdays, true grip etc. Before Dick left people were offered the Essex Police training. I joined when the club was youngish, and Rob Mc gave his time to teach me a little. If it wasnt for SIDC, I still to this day might not of gone on track.
I personally like to see other cars on track, and I'm sure others do. There are enough members on this BBS that have been paid members of SIDC, and still have equal rights to track days to bring other cars to make the days interesting.
I have to agree with John that if he joined and paid money expecting certain benefits, then he should stilll have them. Shouldnt the rule change be as of Now, and any new member me made aware ?
Jonathan
Surely a change like this should be put to the membership ?.
Can the club make a change like this without a full members vote ?
I do agree with the plan for stopping members joining for cheap track days, and there has to be a cut off date. Not sure I would agree with you John on not seeing the benefits of joining before you did. Even though at points I go through non Impreza ownership, I still pay my subs. Pete and crew have given lots of free time to the SIDC and sorting out trackdays, true grip etc. Before Dick left people were offered the Essex Police training. I joined when the club was youngish, and Rob Mc gave his time to teach me a little. If it wasnt for SIDC, I still to this day might not of gone on track.
I personally like to see other cars on track, and I'm sure others do. There are enough members on this BBS that have been paid members of SIDC, and still have equal rights to track days to bring other cars to make the days interesting.
I have to agree with John that if he joined and paid money expecting certain benefits, then he should stilll have them. Shouldnt the rule change be as of Now, and any new member me made aware ?
Jonathan
19 March 2001, 09:05 PM
#18
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Also, how would they handle us booking the 22B on track then having a late problem with the car and having to use the RS200?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That couldn't possibly happen... Could it
Richard
That couldn't possibly happen... Could it
Richard
19 March 2001, 09:14 PM
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OK... there are few important things here as I see it.
Firstly the hard truths.
1) SIDC is there for it's members first and foremost. The reason for the club is to offer membership for Impreza Drivers. So any decisions need to reflect this.
2) People (presumably there are more than John) have paid for their membership with an understanding as to what they will get in return and it looks like that will now change.
Now.. the more circumstantial stuff..
1) John has been a HUGE supporter of all things scooby, and IMHO genuinely adds colour and life to the SIDC track days.
2) Isn't part of the fun of a taking a bunch of scoobs on track, the finding out how they compare to other marques?
----------
The thing is... The reasons put forward by SIDC for this decision (apart from maybe the safety issue - as john clearly pointed out) seem sound, but...
You can't always have everything you want.
We don't live in an ideal world where things are black or white.
I think this is a decision based on good motives and genuine intentions which has been taken prior to considering all the alternatives, and without FULL consideration of the consequences.
Just my two-pence as Simon de Banke, not as ScoobyNet.
All the best
Simon
Firstly the hard truths.
1) SIDC is there for it's members first and foremost. The reason for the club is to offer membership for Impreza Drivers. So any decisions need to reflect this.
2) People (presumably there are more than John) have paid for their membership with an understanding as to what they will get in return and it looks like that will now change.
Now.. the more circumstantial stuff..
1) John has been a HUGE supporter of all things scooby, and IMHO genuinely adds colour and life to the SIDC track days.
2) Isn't part of the fun of a taking a bunch of scoobs on track, the finding out how they compare to other marques?
----------
The thing is... The reasons put forward by SIDC for this decision (apart from maybe the safety issue - as john clearly pointed out) seem sound, but...
You can't always have everything you want.
We don't live in an ideal world where things are black or white.
I think this is a decision based on good motives and genuine intentions which has been taken prior to considering all the alternatives, and without FULL consideration of the consequences.
Just my two-pence as Simon de Banke, not as ScoobyNet.
All the best
Simon
19 March 2001, 09:18 PM
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Another possible alternative ...
JUST AS AN IDEA...
We could take the pressure off SIDC and run a season of ScoobyNet track days to compliment them?
That way SIDC could limit it to scoobs, scoobynet wouldn't, and we can all make our own choices?
Just a thought.
Regards
Simon (as scoobynet this time!!!)
JUST AS AN IDEA...
We could take the pressure off SIDC and run a season of ScoobyNet track days to compliment them?
That way SIDC could limit it to scoobs, scoobynet wouldn't, and we can all make our own choices?
Just a thought.
Regards
Simon (as scoobynet this time!!!
)
19 March 2001, 09:29 PM
#23
John
Not entirely sure they were refereing solely to you - I think you are being a tad paranoid
There has been reference recently on the bbs to people buying westies & caterhams just for track days & also in the "motoring press" to "Track Day Cars" like Aeros, R500s & the like. I think that prehaps Pete's reference was unfortunate, but was solely to put across a point.
I for one (amongst many I'm sure) would miss you at SIDC events, as having your little hornet buzzing around keeps one on ones toes. Its not just about overtaking everything in front of you ( 
), but being aware of whats happening ALL around you that enhances the day & your ability. If it was all scoobs, then I'd only have to worry about Stef 
& you just have to watch for the dust clouds from the kitty litter to know where he is!
Besides, you must have been an honorary SIDC member for yonks!
Not entirely sure they were refereing solely to you - I think you are being a tad paranoid
There has been reference recently on the bbs to people buying westies & caterhams just for track days & also in the "motoring press" to "Track Day Cars" like Aeros, R500s & the like. I think that prehaps Pete's reference was unfortunate, but was solely to put across a point.
I for one (amongst many I'm sure) would miss you at SIDC events, as having your little hornet buzzing around keeps one on ones toes. Its not just about overtaking everything in front of you (
), but being aware of whats happening ALL around you that enhances the day & your ability. If it was all scoobs, then I'd only have to worry about Stef & you just have to watch for the dust clouds from the kitty litter to know where he is!Besides, you must have been an honorary SIDC member for yonks!
19 March 2001, 09:32 PM
#24
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So would all the guys with 22b.com windscreen stickers have to go on the reserve list......
Seriously, sounds like a great idea to me.
Also, does this mean all non-EVO driving members of the MLR are not welcome on *shared* trackdays ?
DJ
Seriously, sounds like a great idea to me.
Also, does this mean all non-EVO driving members of the MLR are not welcome on *shared* trackdays ?
DJ
19 March 2001, 09:36 PM
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John,
I am not a member of the SIDC, nor am I wealthy enough to do track days, but here my opinion for what its worth.
Given that the route cause of at least some peoples concerns is the disparity between the performance levels of cars on the track, probably infering your cars massive power/weight ratio, what about if your car didn't have as much power.
Would it be considered to be safer/less intimidating/fairer, or whatever if it had similar levels of performance as the majority of attendees, ie Imprezas.
I know that within motorsport, some drivers have previously stated that the SLOWER cars within the GT classes group 'C' and whatever other groups they use and Le mans type cars, are considered dangerous. As they claim the quick cars catch them too easily.
Here we have a reverse of that philosophy, so more evenly balance the performance,and perhaps the differing makes can co-exist on track together.
When I used to occassionally compete in my friends car at Autocross (Mk II Escort, 2L Pinto/170BHP) in the mechanics race, which I would enter, it was all classes, including BDA powered class 10 (I think)cars, which were very fast, but made it extremely good fun.
I would try my hardest to live with the quicker machines, and saw them as a challenge, not a threat.
But thats only my perspective.
I have no doubt, reducing the speed/power of your car would not be the ideal solution for youself John, and after being driven in your car, I most definately could understand your sadness (and I suspect several other peoples, including myself) at restricting a breathtaking machine to the lowest common denominator.
As I stated at the begining, just my thought on a difficult subject.
P.S. John you are more than welcome to attend any of the Northern Meets I arrange, as are any members with any power and type of car.
One chap is coming to NM5 in a 480BHP Shelby Cobra, and I am sure NOBODY will object.
In fact, much like your track attendences,
that is part of the draw, that brings the punters.
Cheers MTR
I am not a member of the SIDC, nor am I wealthy enough to do track days, but here my opinion for what its worth.
Given that the route cause of at least some peoples concerns is the disparity between the performance levels of cars on the track, probably infering your cars massive power/weight ratio, what about if your car didn't have as much power.
Would it be considered to be safer/less intimidating/fairer, or whatever if it had similar levels of performance as the majority of attendees, ie Imprezas.
I know that within motorsport, some drivers have previously stated that the SLOWER cars within the GT classes group 'C' and whatever other groups they use and Le mans type cars, are considered dangerous. As they claim the quick cars catch them too easily.
Here we have a reverse of that philosophy, so more evenly balance the performance,and perhaps the differing makes can co-exist on track together.
When I used to occassionally compete in my friends car at Autocross (Mk II Escort, 2L Pinto/170BHP) in the mechanics race, which I would enter, it was all classes, including BDA powered class 10 (I think)cars, which were very fast, but made it extremely good fun.
I would try my hardest to live with the quicker machines, and saw them as a challenge, not a threat.
But thats only my perspective.
I have no doubt, reducing the speed/power of your car would not be the ideal solution for youself John, and after being driven in your car, I most definately could understand your sadness (and I suspect several other peoples, including myself) at restricting a breathtaking machine to the lowest common denominator.
As I stated at the begining, just my thought on a difficult subject.
P.S. John you are more than welcome to attend any of the Northern Meets I arrange, as are any members with any power and type of car.
One chap is coming to NM5 in a 480BHP Shelby Cobra, and I am sure NOBODY will object.
In fact, much like your track attendences,
that is part of the draw, that brings the punters.
Cheers MTR
19 March 2001, 09:43 PM
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Hang on one sec, something springs to mind.
If John has only just joined SIDC, then I'm guessing all the track days he did last year WEREN'T SIDC days, ie I met him at the RSOC day.
There are many track days that aren't SIDC ones, where John et al can still come along.
So is this getting out of all proportion?
Cheers,
Greg
If John has only just joined SIDC, then I'm guessing all the track days he did last year WEREN'T SIDC days, ie I met him at the RSOC day.
There are many track days that aren't SIDC ones, where John et al can still come along.
So is this getting out of all proportion?
Cheers,
Greg
19 March 2001, 09:45 PM
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I Can sympathise with the boards decision and if you extrapolated over the next 6 months ... I think you can easily see the problem they are trying to avoid before it happens.
I don't do many SIDC days (as I'd rather go to tracks local to myself). But I'll stick my oar in anyway. I also think it would be boing as hell driving on a track populated entirely by the same mark car. I really like having Mike R, John, Dingy, Blow Dog, Shaun and the rest on track at the same time.
It'd be a shame I personally don't see myself queueing up to go on a Scooby only day - but hey that leaves more space for the rest of you I guess !
Simon - Thats an ace idea !!! but how are you going to stop people signing up on Scoobynet just for the track days ?
Gary
I don't do many SIDC days (as I'd rather go to tracks local to myself). But I'll stick my oar in anyway. I also think it would be boing as hell driving on a track populated entirely by the same mark car. I really like having Mike R, John, Dingy, Blow Dog, Shaun and the rest on track at the same time.
It'd be a shame
I personally don't see myself queueing up to go on a Scooby only day - but hey that leaves more space for the rest of you I guess ! Simon - Thats an ace idea !!! but how are you going to stop people signing up on Scoobynet just for the track days ?
Gary
19 March 2001, 09:49 PM
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Just my little input here,
But wouldn't it be better to change the S.I.D.C. regulations at the annual subscription date?, rather than have members join after September, only to find that some of the benefits have been withdrawn during the year?
I'm only making suggestions here,as I think it would be beneficial to have certain individuals at our track days whose advice and tech. knowledge has been welcome and freely available previously.
And i've yet to go in a 500 b.h.p. plastic pig, but my mrs. says i should
Regards Shaun.
But wouldn't it be better to change the S.I.D.C. regulations at the annual subscription date?, rather than have members join after September, only to find that some of the benefits have been withdrawn during the year?
I'm only making suggestions here,as I think it would be beneficial to have certain individuals at our track days whose advice and tech. knowledge has been welcome and freely available previously.
And i've yet to go in a 500 b.h.p. plastic pig, but my mrs. says i should
Regards Shaun.
19 March 2001, 09:49 PM
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Here we go again!
Firstly, I think I'm correct in saying that Pete's comment was a general statement and NOT aimed at anybody in particular. If you read it properly he was actually referring to the 500bhp/ton fibre glass cars you find at commercial track days, not SIDC ones.
Secondly, as I've already said several times, this affects NO events that the SIDC currently has booked, bar the ones at BHLG circuits. The only circuit likely to be affected is Donno, and they run enough of their own days to keep everyone happy. John has only actually only ever attended TWO SIDC events in his Westie, so I think people are once again confusing Donno days with SIDC events.
This subject will be discussed fully at the next agm, and a solution will hopefully be agreed by all then. Pete's statement is simply an interim measure.
Simon.
Here we go then eh?
Stef.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 19 March 2001).]
Firstly, I think I'm correct in saying that Pete's comment was a general statement and NOT aimed at anybody in particular. If you read it properly he was actually referring to the 500bhp/ton fibre glass cars you find at commercial track days, not SIDC ones.
Secondly, as I've already said several times, this affects NO events that the SIDC currently has booked, bar the ones at BHLG circuits. The only circuit likely to be affected is Donno, and they run enough of their own days to keep everyone happy. John has only actually only ever attended TWO SIDC events in his Westie, so I think people are once again confusing Donno days with SIDC events.
This subject will be discussed fully at the next agm, and a solution will hopefully be agreed by all then. Pete's statement is simply an interim measure.
Simon.
Here we go then eh?
Stef.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 19 March 2001).]
19 March 2001, 09:52 PM
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MTR
I don't think thats the point, I have certainly not had problems with faster cars than me (on SIDC or other events). It just isn't a problem at all. My first track day I got overtaken by John, Mike R, Dingy, Blow Dog .. and then almost every Impreza that was on the track as well. No worries, it's no big deal.
If it's a problem for anyone it's for the faster car (if held up I mean).
Hate to be rude but maybe if you had been on track at a SIDC event you'd be in a better place to comment ...
I don't think thats the point, I have certainly not had problems with faster cars than me (on SIDC or other events). It just isn't a problem at all. My first track day I got overtaken by John, Mike R, Dingy, Blow Dog .. and then almost every Impreza that was on the track as well. No worries, it's no big deal.
If it's a problem for anyone it's for the faster car (if held up I mean).
Hate to be rude but maybe if you had been on track at a SIDC event you'd be in a better place to comment ...