Alan Jeffery

I dare say some of you have heard about the latest Police tactics of stopping cars and measuring exhaust noises using a decibel meter. Apparently five owners were issued with £30 fixed penalty notices this week in Plymouth due to "excessive noise". The limits they are operating appear very low, certainly compared to normal motorsport levels, and it's my view that a huge number of standard cars, the likes of Aston Martin, Ferrari etc would fail their "test".
Ignoring all the obvious pitfalls with accurate noise testing, background, barometric pressure, humidity, temperature, wind direction etc. there's one obvious problem from the actual lawbreaking point of view. What is it the Police are complaining about? is it the actual noise, or the ability of the car to produce it? Could they issue a penalty on the appearance of the tailpipe, or does it actually have to make a noise?
I've heard it goes like this. Plod one stands at the back of the car while Plod two revs it up. If Plod one's little needle goes over 89db on his meter, they issue a fixed penalty.
What's the penalty for? the Plod with his great flat hoof on the throttle made the noise! should HE be liable? if they make you do it yourself, is that coercion? what happened to the right to silence enshrined in law? it sounds like they are making you make the noise they are complaining about.
If you shout loudly in the street, and they ask you to shut up, and you do, I wouldn't expect you to be fined. what I also wouldn't expect is for them to ask you to shout again like you did before, then fine you for that! It's like doing you for speeding because the car is CAPABLE of going over 30 mph.
Considering it's possible to drive up and down at only 1500 rpm, I can't see how they can fine you for having an engine that makes a certain noise at 4000 rpm or whatever.
If they ask you to start your car engine, so they can test it, do you have to? what if it won't start? eg faulty immobiliser? lost keys? what if you state that it has overheated and you don't want to run the engine? what if you refuse to help them incriminate you? I'm sure even they will have better things to do eventually, deal with knife crime, that sort of thing.
Policemen aren't engineers, they aren't allowed to tamper with car engines, and I'm sure they won't fancy being sued if somebody complains that their engine was damaged by a PC on a mission. Should anybody complain that their engine was going to be damaged by being tested in this way, for example if they are running in a new engine, and don't want to rev it over say 3000 rpm, I'm sure an expert witness statement would help.
I've just discovered something, having never looked before, but apparently there are decibel limits stuck in log books for cars after 2002. Is that what they are on about? where did that come from? if the limit isn't listed on your import car, can you tell them to Sod off?
As far as I'm concerned anybody who doesn't like the sound of a decent car engine wants flogging.
The whole thing is pathetic and I can't believe we aren't all on the streets rioting about it, as it's the biggest threat to the car enthusiast since the man with the red flag walking in front.

Alan Jeffery

V5RLTD

iTrader: (5)

So what you saying? Very valid points.

s70rjw

iTrader: (2)

Calm down, it's in response to local residents complaining and they are doing something about it. From BBC site

The meters will be used in targeted operations and at known trouble spots, including Plymouth Hoe and Exmouth's sea front.


The meters are being used in known car noise trouble spots
The force said the use of the measuring devices followed consultation with local communities to identify the top three priorities they wanted police to deal with.

Anti-social driving, including excessive noise, was shown as a "significant concern" affecting the quality of life in many neighbourhoods.

bob r

iTrader: (46)

If any of us "innocent" enthusiasts are stopped and fail one of these noise tests, then simply don't accept the ticket and agree to be summonsed to court instead.
I am sure any one of us can argue the case that we were unaware of the tests and our cars' have a valid MOT.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

If you get stopped for a noise level check, always a) Ask to see the certificate of calibration of the device
b) Ask at what distance and angle to the exhaust, the reading will be taken and the steady RPM that the reading will be taken at.
c) Confirm the maximum reading that is acceptable.

Remember: dba meters require regular calibration to maintain their accuracy.
Sound level DOUBLES for every 3dBa increase ie 103 dBa is twice the level of 100 dBa
Distance of the meter from the sound source is critical, halve the distance and level will increase x4 (inverse square rule )
Ambient noise level should be taken into account. noise can only be judged a nuisance if it is over a defined level above ambient.
High frequency noise of a given dBa will, to the human ear, sound louder than a low frequency noise of the same dBa

Spout that lot to the copper and he'll be so impressed, he'll send you on your way with a freindly wave

JohnD

Alan Jeffery

The same as people living near airfields complaining about noise from aircraft?
The thing with cars is they move about, the noise is transient, not like some git next door with a lawnmower going all day and a stereo going all night. And once again, they are targeting the wrong people. They are just young lads. They don't carry knives or guns or do drugs. If they get caught speeding that's tough titty. If you drive a Scooby with an exhaust that's non standard they can now get you any time they feel like it, assuming you let them.

Alan Jeffery

And another one. You DO NOT have to start your engine if asked to for a noise test, and they have no right to ask you to open your bonnet up for inspection. Just sit it out is my advice.

s70rjw

iTrader: (2)

Or you could take some qualified legal advice...

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

apart from the fact that they should take you to an open area to perform the test ie. no buildings that will affect the test, i am also thinking about the 1000's of jobs that will be at risk if the car modding scene is stamped out

steve

Timur 008

iTrader: (2)

I am with Alan on this one the Coppers have nothing else better to do then start to go give out tickets for noise pollution i've had a lot of trouble with them in the past & my Jap car illnesses. Worst one was when i was driving home 30mph v late at night as i was on night shifts & a street Police man jumps out in front of me - i had to do an emergency stop!! & the man was lucky i didn't run him over! anyhow i said "what seems to be the problem officer" he said "i think you need to get your exhaust looked into as its far too loud & i think you best change it before you get a fine". My car at the time was a Pulsar GTI-R & had a striaght through pipe (sounded mint i must say) & was 100% legal. Anyhow i questioned the office & said "why should i change it? the car came like this from Japan & is a fully blown road 4x4 rally car so will make a nice rumble/noise etc." the Officer didn't seem happy about my remark & started to say (like he's a mechanic or something) "i think you need a new catalic converter?" i knew that the car didn't have one as it was the older models of cars when you didn't need to have one on so i didn't go on about it too much to the Officer as i was dog tired & didn't want to have much of a convo at 00:30 morning & just wanted to get home to bed, so i said "i don't think so officer as i have just got a new MOT 2 weeks ago & it past with no probs" he still replied after that saying "well i'd still go get it checked out from another MOT station & make sure its 100% alright as you could get a fine". I said "ok officer" then he let me go on my way. Sorry.. but what a ****!
1) I got all legal papers stating the car is 100% ok & road legal.
2) Why the officer suddenly becomes a mechanic & starts telling me what my car needs & don't need?
3) If my car is loud what about my mates R1? or the kids on them blooming quad bikes burning up & down the roads - they make much more noise then me plodding along at 30mph.

also one more time i had a copper follow me home waited for me to park up & told me to put my window down & say "get your exhuast changed!" then he shot off speeding up my road more then 30mph & was obviosly not in hot pursuit of anyone if he had time for me to do all that!

Well the whole matter just makes me sick.. & too many idiots out there. They should just consentrate on what they are qualified for & not go into any other things that don't concern them.

Alan Jeffery

Can't argue with that as a statement.
I'm getting a flavour from you here, so help us out, what is your interest in this issue, and where do you suggest we get legal advice at 1.00 am on a windy street, assuming you aren't Peter Mandelson?

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Just state that the test conditions are not specified, or adhered to in a roadside test.

IMHO

dunx

P.S. 89 dB last time....

GC8WRX

I would just tell the glorified tax collectors to **** right off, take the 30 quid fine and laugh about it, as far as i know, there is no rule about the loudness of an exhaust, its down the the MOT'ers opinion, and mine are friendly!



Another example of coppers ignoring crack houses, herion dealers, handbag snatchers etc etc and going after the people that have money i.e car drivers!


They know that some smackhead will never be able to pay his fine, so they dont bother, but if you drive a modded car you must have a bit of cash and thus able to pay the fine they are so keen to handout, so all efforts are made to find ways of weazling you out of your hard earned, it fcukin stinks!


Instead of going after loud exhausts, try going after all the polish wrecks that are driven around on their last legs, not giving a **** about speed cameras or parking fines cos they are still registered in poland, give all them 30 quid fines, they ******* deserve it!

rbaz

iTrader: (1)

I will be passing through Plymouth on Thursday and mine is loud 3" full decat
Hopefully they will not look twice at me with French plates on
Wonder if they could give me a ticket I still have a UK licence but I dont have to tell them that do I? do I even have to tell them I speak English

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

They might nick you just for being French!

JohnD

FLD_WILLIS

+ 1.

What a load of ****e, I hope it doesn't catch on nationally.

hannogo

Sometimes the plod doesn'nt speak in English when it comes to motoring law and regulations

Alan Jeffery

"Je ne comprendre Anglais monsieur" .. ou et le Plod? le Plod et dans le merde ..

dunx

iTrader: (3)

"Le singe et dans la frigidere...."

LOL

dunx

bodgeit

Failing to provide a valid drivin licence when asked (by the FEDs) is an offence.ALL offences comitted now are arrestable offences, (previously a copper couldnt arrest you non-serious offences such as blowing exhaust, windscreen washers in-op,not wearing your seatbelt etc). A "loud" exhaust contravenes any number off traffic laws and would create enough reasonable suspicion for the Feds/VOSA to pull you over and possibly issue you with a PG9 (the old name) Or even an ASBO, the vehicle doesnt move until the fault is rectified or for less serious faults(noisy exhaust) A demand for an MOT re-test within 7-14 days. As fer claiming to be foriegn, the government will be closing that loophole shortly.My advice get the noisiest exhaust yer can find, BUT KEEP THE FOOKIN REVS DOWN WHEN NEAR HOUSES.

steveorangewrx

A chap next to my unit is plod and was tellin me about the course he went on about this noise testing.

Aparently they measure the background noises etc before doing the test! However, in his book it says you can only issue a ticket if the car is being driving in a manner that was avoidable, ie the typical saxo being driven by a 17 yr old with a peco big bore hangin off the back at 40mph past a housing estate deserves a ticket! a scoob being driven carefully would warrent a ticket! I doubt this is the case however

As far as MOT's, a customer of mine had his classic failed on excessive noise last week!

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

I did a track day at the Bedford Autodrome a few weeks back and they noise test you BEFORE you actually enter the place! They also threaten to do drive by tests during the day. The level they tolerate is quite low for the type of car they might expect there, at 101dBa @ 0.5m and 87 dBa @ 20m drive-by I've still got the little "pass" sticker on the windscreen - hoped it might influence the MOT tester a week later! He did notice the graining on the tyres, though!

JohnD

rbaz

iTrader: (1)

Stick with speaking English then but the car is French registered so they cant make me MOT it. It has to be legal in the country it is from and it passed the controle technique (well failed in current form on emissions but not noise )
Still I hope they arent interested as its not UK registered.

2005wrxstitypeuk

New Age Subaru Impreza CAT Back 2 Piece System by japspeed guys does any1 have this exhaust or no of it is it much louder than the original sti exhaust dont want 1 much louder just like to hear the burble a bit more but not much more inside the car thanx

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

They would presumably do a name check on you and discover the brit passport. Remember Big Brother knows a lot these days!

Produce the license (non endorsable anyway) and sit tight. Unless there is a serious defect such as bald tyres on the car there wouldn't be anything they could do.

Agree though, just keep the row down going past houses. I've got a Scoobyworld system on mine and it is fairly quite by a lot of measures, (plus a race can on the bike - MOT pass) i like a decent engine sound but i do not like the sound of a corsa revving its nuts off in first at 11:30pm when the wee one is in bed.

And if i see the chave with the megane that just seems to have removed a section of pipe from the i'm not sure i can be held responsible... officer.

5t.

0victory0

iTrader: (4)

hi, what is the noise limit and distance to be checked?

C8XY

iTrader: (2)

I got stopped for my music once! wasn't even that loud, two bobbies on the beat signalled me down a side road and told me I didn't need it that loud and I was being a nuisance! They made me play the music loud with me out the car and asked if I thought it was acceptable! I said yes, of course. They issued me with a fine, I said I would go to court as they had no meter, I was down a narrow road (residential! i was on a main road originally) and they were basically being ******. I got a letter through a week later saying that "no action would be taken at this time".
What a complete waste of time and money. I would always go to court over sound levels, just reading the above posts makes you realise there are so many variables, it would be very difficult to prosecute you if you make your case properly.

Also I'm always calm and courteous to police whenever I've encountered them, most are fine, but you always get the odd "power trip" copper

bodgeit

[QUOTE=0victory0;8823387]hi, what is the noise limit and distance to be checked?[/QUOte
Its between 95-99 decibles (Dependin on who you ask) as fer distance its irrelevent. If a copper THINKS its noisy, yer ****ed!! but trust me if you keep it down in built up areas the chances of a tug are slim, however if you get a tug fer summut else the copper might take an interest in yer 'zorst.As some have mentioned on here, ALL motorsport tracks now take an interest in exhaust noise levels......

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

[QUOTE=bodgeit;8824058]With noise level measurement, you need to be much more specific. 99 dBa is three and one third times louder than 95 dBa
Distance is critical - see my post #5

JohnD

Meallbhan

iTrader: (3)

It would be interesting to see if there are any plod on here who may wish to add a comment.