The rookie

iTrader: (1)

Uk Sales of scoobs this year is dire, last year to the end of March they sold 1832 cars, this year its 801, only bolstered by sales of 617 in March (so in Jan and Feb they sold 131 cars through 90 dealers!), sales in the first 3 months of 2007 were 2260 and 2006 were 2680, so from 2006 to now sales are down by 70%.

I have a driveshaft roll pin and 2 A-pillar trims on back order with delivery expected in a total of 4 weeks from placing order, so I think they are cutting back stock levels somewhat to save cash.

Simon

Sorry if this is old news, couldn't find it through a search!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Sadly I think it's a combination of the recession and the fact the new Impreza is not hitting the spot with the public. Personally I think it's as awful car, but each to their own.

G-Man1982

iTrader: (7)

lloks like a fooking deawoo thats why!

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

That is a great shame, and it's something we should all be worried about if it means the supply of parts might dry up.

Can't say I'm surprised, though. I know it was Subaru's stated aim to try and broaden their market beyond the performance niche, and that wasn't in itself a bad move - cars that do sub-25mpg aren't exactly fashionable these days after all.

Unfortunately, if you're going to do that, you need an offering that's competitive in other market segments, and the current Impreza just isn't. Why buy one when you can have a Focus, Astra or Golf instead? The new car just doesn't stand out like the classic did.

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

Well yes, Subaru in the UK had a massive reliance on the performance versions of the impreza, with Forester, Justy (last version not coming here at all), Legacy and tribeca loosing out, now they are loosing the buyers of the turbo'd impreza's due to turnning them off and running out the WRX (new Forester has no turbo either) they are selling next to nothing.

It will be interesting to see what they try next, ironic when you look at the number of 2.0 turbo's that VAG are selling across the range, mind you they do nearer 30mpg than 20mpg!

Mind you perhaps that is a big chunk of the problem, the EJ engines just isn't competative on fuel economy with other cars, even the early classics with 1.6/1.8 and FWD weren't, and the latest car with 4WD and the 1.5 is still pretty chronic, even the Diesel isn't competative with other diesels. Personally I think flat-4's will die out, it means you have to compromise the bore/stoke relationship to get it to fit and that kills the thermodynamic efficiency (large bore means more surface area at TDC and more heat loss from charge to coolant).

Simon

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Large bore can also mean less frictional loss, though, since each piston is moving less distance per revolution... not sure how the actual numbers would work out on that one. It also means room for larger valves and the ability to better optimise their position.

IMHO the Japanese companies just aren't that good at diesel engines; they just don't use them in their home territory and it shows. I test drove the Lexus IS220d when it first came out, and that engine was shockingly bad (again, IMHO) compared to its German competition. Not bad for a first effort, perhaps, but that's about as kind as I could be.

At the end of the day, the current Impreza is one I just have no interest in trying - despite being on my 4th in 9 years (3 classics and a blobeye). Shame that 'underwhelming' is so hard to quantify.

scooby L

Ha ha ha

Honda's doing badly in this area too.... I suppose that's the new Impreza's fault too...?

Is IM in trouble? YES PROBABLY
Reason? GLOBAL RESESSION, EXPENSIVE CARS TO RUN (and now TAX) too late releasing/developing a diesel.

MOST of the car companies are in trouble (Do people not read the news?)
Saab, Chrisler, Honda are the one's we know about, more I'm sure will follow...

Those who hate the Hatch will always hate the hatch, and feel free to...but stop blaming it for the market slump... next the WRX will be accused of taking inflated pensions from collapsed/goverment owned banks...

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Most car companies have experienced a 30% to 40% downturn in sales.

Do the maths on the Subaru figures up there and you will find it is a lot more than that.

The difference??? Well I will leave it to you to work it out

scooby L

Yes... Subaru's COST MORE TO RUN than you're average smoker..

please stop scare mongering

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Scaremongering about what exactly? The figures are there for all to see. Subaru are in trouble, in the UK at least, no matter what the exact cause is.

They have about 90 dealers who have sold on average less than 10 cars each in 3 months. That is not a sustainable business model.

Sorry to urinate on your French fries

scooby L

Taken from the AA website

Or are they wrong because they do not agree with you either?

""We are seeing people switching to cheaper models to mitigate the impact of higher vehicle excise duty, record petrol prices and the credit crisis."

The big losers are the cars in the middle range, especially mid-sized saloons with large petrol engines such as the Ford Mondeo, Vauxhall Vectra and Renault Laguna. According to the SMMT, new-car registrations in the lower and upper-medium sector are down 11,009 year-on-year. "

"However, this year's new-car registrations for April number 859,017, slightly up on the same period last year. The market has been buoyed by the public and fleets buying smaller cars, often diesels with smaller engines, in response to new emission-related taxes"

Now... read it and try to understand

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Me understand? what a laugh

You can quote all the reasons in the world as to why Subaru's figures are down. The fact remains they are down and they are down because of all the reasons above AND the fact that as an enthusiast's brand they have alienated those enthusiasts by introuducing a new car that most of them don't want. Don't believe me? Just read Scoobynet!!!

That is all uterlly irrelevant though as it is the figures that are important and right now they are nowhere near enough to keep 90 dealers and IMG afloat without either a radical chnage in the structure or a huge upturn in their market!!

Or do you think differently?

BTW I am guessing you own a hatchback Impreza

stuart2008sti

iTrader: (1)

Its not the current models fault that people cannot move on from the 1993 classic. If vw owners felt the same way would we have ever got to the current golf model.Its all about progress whether you like it or not.But as you say the facts speak for themselves,the cost of running cars is very expensive and it is only natural for people to move away for cheaper vehicles to run.But there will always be a market for performance cars.be it vauxhall,ford,etc.Lets just hope the brand does not die out.

NormantheDog

Well they seem to be doing OK in America and holding their own although it appears to be down to the Forester or have I misread this?

Subaru Sales Defy All Odds By Rising 1% In February - AutoSpies Auto News

today announced a 1-percent sales increase for February 2009 over last year's February results. Year-to-date sales were up 4-percent with 25,283 units sold in 2009 versus 24,195 units sold in 2008.




The 2009 Subaru Forester continues to do well, as sales increased 101-percent over the previous year's Forester sales - a total of 5,978 units sold in February 2009, versus 2,971 units sold in February 2008.



"Subaru maintains a strong position in the current automotive climate," said Tim Colbeck, vice president of sales for Subaru of America. "Our products represent great value for consumers as they continue to shop for smart, capable vehicles to fit their needs."



Feb-09 Feb-08 %chg Feb.-09 YTD Feb.-08 YTD %chg

Legacy 1,341 1,469 -9% 2,506 2,920 -14%

Outback* 2,389 3,786 -37% 4,904 7,221 -32%

Impreza 2,940 3,642 -19% 5,877 6,733 -13%

Forester 5,978 2,971 101% 11,140 5,373 107%

Tribeca 441 1,038 -58% 856 1,948 -56%

Total** 13,089 12,906 1% 25,283 24,195 4%



* Includes Legacy Wagon

** 2008 total does not include 1 Baja sale in 2008



"Despite increased economic uncertainty, the appeal of our products continues to gain momentum," said Thomas J. Doll, executive vice president for Subaru of America. "Subaru vehicles are not only capable and fun to drive, but they also provide a low total cost of ownership - and in times such as these, customers are looking to purchase durable vehicles with high retained values like ours."

scooby L

F1, you make Subaru sound like they're some enthusiast's exclusive marque? If that was the case they'd have gone bust years ago... The Impreza is not the sole reason Subaru are making cars you know... In fact their most loyal market were farmers (and around here still are!)

And yes I do own a Hatch, and no I'd have not bought one if the cost of running it came out of my pocket, I'd have got a diesel...and thus not a Subaru..

I notice you drive a classic, so you've made no contribution to Subaru's new car sales in over 9 years, maybe you're to blame for their falling sales? ha ha...

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well shows you what you know.

FYI I bought an 03STI brand new in 2003 funnily enough.

Least reliable car I have ever owned and after 4.5 years I finally gave in and went back to a classic.

But no, I will never own a hatchback - does not tick any of my boxes sadly.

As for the rest of your last post I say again just look at the figures. End of story really. And note the OP is talking about IMG so we are confining discussion to the UK market. BTW care to guess what proportion of Subaru's UK sales were performance Imprezas before the new car was introduced? I have no idea myself, but you see very few cooking models on the road so I am guessing it was pretty high.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

There's a word for companies which, instead of making what their customers (or would-be customers) actually want, try to tell them what they ought to want.

"Doomed".

scooby L

So Just 6 years then I used to own a 2003STI, very reliable, never missed a beat, maybe you were unlucky... also owned a classic... BOS. rattled, poor build quality, dated (and that was back in 2000).

As I said before, if you don't like it fair enough, but stop making up stuff about it causing Subaru's lack of sales, it hold no water.

I keep reading that last parragraph and still cannot make head nor tail of it..
cooking models?

scooby L

There's also a word for people who do not like change...


"Dinosours"

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

Shporter stroke, longer length of piston ring (the biggset friction by far), its the poor thermodynamc efficiency due to large bore/stroke ratio that is the problem, also variable valve timing costs Subaru twice as much as they need one per cam per bank, competitors with an I4 only need 1, and VVT units aren't cheap!

Ealy Jap Diesels were poor, but the latest iteration of Toyota and Honda units are very close to being on a par with Euro ones, the Subaru Diesel is near enough square, all other diesels massively undersquare.

Simon

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

It wasn't the recession that caused the lack of sales - although undoubtly it did not help. We've been talking about the new hatch model for a couple of years now.

And it's not a failure to move on from classics - there are plenty of new age models out there, but only 01 - 08 models, not the new hatch. Some people have a real dilema about swapping their classic in for a new-age or vice versa, which proves that both are popular.

It's quite clear that the directive from above ("we must become more popular") was wrong for the UK market. It was (is) an enthusiasts car, and failure to listen has caused a lack of sales. If it was a well styled car, a niche car, it would still be selling well even in this recession hit market.

I'm sure that had they bothered listening to their existing client base (and there are lots of classic and new age owners that shoud have been considered as potential purchaserss), they may have pushed for a saloon STI/performance model to be produced and shipped to the UK. I don't know exactly if that would have worked. But the overriding view on SN over the last couple of years has been that people don't want the hatch version. Now I've nothing to base this on, but surely the readers of SN has to be considered as a good market to sell into?

Personally I think that they may have done better to call the new model something completely different rather than try and keep the Impreza name. Possibly keep the old model overlapping for a few months (years?) and also produce the hatch at the same time. Mind you this may not have been possible with the current manufacturing setup.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Maiking stuff up?? It's called having an opinion and the fact remains it ain't selling regardless of the reasons why. My opinion is that the reason is that the car is not good enough, maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong, but I am entitled to my opinion.

Cooking models = non performance variants. Put simply you see way more WRX/STI Imprezas than GLs and the likes in the UK whereas in Australia for instance the number of non performance variants outweigh the performance variants quite considerably.

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

According to this months EVO mag, Subaru only sold 46(going from memory) cars in February throughout the whole of the UK.....ouch.

scooby L

You are, and I admire you for it, but please stop wording "your opinion" as "fact"


I see one or two turbo's (any age/varient) around here, and far far more legacy's (all non turbo's) and the odd 1800 pickup! ..

It's called the country, and farmers were driving Subaru's long before Subaru discovered Rallying and Prodrive, and will continue to support them long after Subaru WRC is a distant memory.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Ironically the new Impreza does exist as a saloon in other markets - and, IMHO, it's a much better looking machine that might appeal more to UK consumers. Go and take a look at the WRX saloon over on subaru.com, it looks like a proper updated Impreza.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Blame your customers. Sound business strategy, that.

SPG

It's not all about the Impreza though? The legacy has been Subaru's longest running car and has to have the most sales surely? particuly in the UK, add to that Forester and Outback, could Subaru survive on these models alone.... I reakon so.

UK wise, the best year for Impreza sales was'nt a year in the 90's when the classic was being sold it was actually 2003!

In the industry its reported perfomance cars will be off the roads within 5 years, make of that what you will.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I'm not, your choice of car is clouding the way you are reading my posts


Yep, well let's leave aside our difference of opinion on how many performance vs non performance variants were sold even though I bet that the performance variants made up a significantly large proportion of UK sales in the last few years before the hatchback because unless things improve I seriously doubt whether the enthusiasts or the farmers will have the opportunuty to support them as sadly I doubt Subaru will be on sale in the UK for much longer unless something changes. Anyone remember Lancia???

stuart2008sti

iTrader: (1)

I like the quote above (the car is not good enough)are you comparing this to the impreza range,if so lets look at this.The hatch is bigger inside,faster on the track.easier on the road,more comfortable,not dated yet,not so cheap looking.If you do not believe this is a step in the right direction then thank god the decision is not yours to make.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

You'd think that way - but that's why there's such skill involved in deciding what changes a model should undergo from one generation to the next.

Listen to your customers and they'll ask for all these things - more space, quicker, more comfortable... yet deliver a car that achieves these things and it flops.

That's because people don't actually want what they say they do. Of all the Imprezas I've owned, the oldest (an STI v2) was the one I most enjoyed driving. Was it the quickest? No. Most comfortable? Definitely not. Did the newer cars definitely represent measurable improvements on paper? Sure. But I'd still much rather have another '95 car than an '05.

The day I want comfy and practical, I'll drive my 330D.