OK The question sounds stupid, but

I've been on a few track days and this has been the rule, and it has worked pretty well. Goodwood on Saturday was not like this, you can overtake on either side and you can't overtake on corners (but we did overtake on some of the long sweeping bends all day).

I was initially a bit worried about this, esp when the organiser said 'basically it's up to the person overtaking to overtake safely, thats the only rule'.

However, this did in fact work very well indeed, at no point did I or anyone get held up at all all day. I didn't see one dodgy overtaking manouver and I didn't hear any chat in the pit lane (as you normally do) of people being held up.

Admittedly these guys were all experienced track drivers, and most pretty familiar with the track. They all had high power cars (Lambo VT, Ferrari 355's, 550's, Loads of Porsche Carrera GT3's etc) so I'd expect there to be even more rules as on off is going to be extremely expensive.

What do you reckon ?

(Ps Eggar Lawson insured me at the same rate as SIDC events (except the discount) as this organiser has a good history)

 

Gary,

On events like Trackzone's etc any one can drive any car on track.

At Donnington in November there were some dodgy machines (rusty MG Montego etc), I think the rules may be there to stop something like this trying to out brake you on the inside up to a corner.

Sounds like the Goodwood crowd may have a little more skill and thought for the machinery.

Lee

 

Crikey ! nothing like that happened !

Another thing was hardly anyone let of the Gas if you were overtaking them. Which I found a little disconcerting, but maybe they were in fact letting off just enough for me to go by / braking earlier for the corner to let me go.

Anyway, there certainly weren't any incidents and everyone seemed to be aware of exactly where the other cars were on track.

Being overtaken by a Lambo VT at 120 Mph was a memorable event, more memorable was the M3 that was right on his *** (also overtook me) who then overtook on the next straight.

There weren't any whorry old cars there, in fact I reckon at least half the cars were > 100K.

Ps what's an Ascari ? looked cool.

 

Gary.
If everyone knows they're supposed to move to the right and only going to be overtaken on one side it supposedly makes things lot easier and safer.
Unfortunately, some people are unwilling for whatever reason to do this, which causes tailbacks and processions.
If every driver on track was highly experienced then this rule may not be so necessary, but they're not so it is.
I think the overtaking rules should be made clearer in briefings, and more importantly those that don't comply should be warned once only and then taken off the track.
They will be at all future SIDC events.

Stef.

 

Didn't find it a problem (well a little) at Donno, as you ran it in sessions with an open pit lane. There's nothing to stop you coming in waiting about a bit then going out again if someone really is refusing to move over.

I agree that it would be a good idea to stress it a little more, I'm sure people aren't doing it on purpose.

Goodwood was not session based, you go out - do 5 laps, come in and join the back of the queue. All very good unless you get stuck behind someone .... it's half an hour till you get to the front of the queue again.

Gary

 

Having experienced both overtaking on left only, and 'both side' the former is far easier and safer for both the overtaker and the overtaken.

Yesterday at Oulton Park was the first time I have had real problems with people not moving over despite having caught up to them quickly, and while its frustrating, it isn't worth risking it and trying to pass until they ease off and visably move over. Worst come to the worst, ease off yourself for a few moments and create some clear space.

Yesterday was great, and about the best fun track time I have had (even allowing for the MY01 incident and incredible number of red flags), but it was off-putting to see so many 5,6,7 car processions going round I had two people spin in front of me, and without the clear road between I would have been 'collected' on at least one occasion

 

Whenever I'm being overtaken, I move to the right, and PUT MY INDICTATOR ON.. This lets the guy behind KNOW I've seen him and am giving way.. and not just wandered off the racing line only to swerve back into his path seconds later.

I also lift-off momentarily, to let the guy past quicker.. many times people have pulled over to let me past, and then continued to go a full hammer.. reaching a bend at the same time as me. Foolish.

[This message has been edited by DavidBrown (edited 28 January 2001).]

 

The same Mr Vectra exited the gravel trap right in front of and rather too close for comfort whilst I was passengering in a wide ar$ed blue thing.
"That blokes a nutter!" (Not you C!)

 

Glad to read some common sense on this thread instead of the hysterics re Oulton. Especially from Stef here, since he's in a position to make the rules stick. Good on you, M8.

It has been said elswhere that it is the responsibility of the faster car to overtake safely. I strongly disagree. It is a JOINT responsibility but the initiative is with the SLOWER driver.

It is the slower car's duty to check their mirrors, to indicate, to move over and to ease off. In that order. A friendly wave from the faster car helps a lot, too. More emphasis should be put on this at the drivers' briefing, with stern verbal instructions about being overtaken, backed up by a clearly written/illustrated sheet.

I really don't know why slower cars sometimes refuse to move over immediately. If you've been caught up, you are slower, FACT, so let the faster car past. It's no fun having someone on your tail, and dangerous, too. Let them by and try to watch their lines and braking points - you might learn something.

And the officials and marshalls need to be more vigilant in observing and having a friendly word with offenders. Furthermore, faster drivers who have been frustrated by slower cars (and it can REALLY test the patience of a saint) should make a point of registering a polite complaint. In future, I shall try and speak directly with anyone who has blocked me unnecessarily - not to provoke confrontation but to make the point personally and politely, concluded with a handshake.

Anyone reading this, please don't think this is a demand from me for everyone to get out of my way. I get overtaken plenty.

Track days are FUN. It's not a race, there are no prizes, and the challenge is between you, your car and the track.

Hoppy

 

Every track day I have ever done has been overtake on the left. This has worked pretty well especially on days when the organisers speak to people who drivers and the marshalls point out are not obeying the rule.

If we're going to start overtaking all over the place then we may as well all go racing.

Yes, I've also experienced people who won't pull over. Usually motoring snobs who who know on paper their car is faster. Never understood it really I find is really distracting to have someone on my tail.

 

The main problem seems to be people NOT LISTENING to the drivers briefing.

That goes for drivers who sit on the left hand side and for drivers who think that the first lap of the day will be their fastest.

The reason why we overtake on the left is twofold...

First, because it requires a deliberate action to move to the right, so you will hopefully also SLOW DOWN and let the faster car pass safely.

Second, our circuits being predominately right hand bends this will keep the faster car on the correct path for the next bend.

At SIDC track days, we have black flagged drivers who did not listen to the briefing. I have personally stressed at many track day briefings, previous Oulton days included, that if you are black flagged, your day is over. This does sharpen the mind.

What we all need to sit back and take stock of is...

At a track day, you are there for fun. You can learn a huge amount about your driving on a track days, but you are not there to find out just where abouts you run out of skill.

 

Pete, well said. You are absolutely right in what you say and there seems to be some confusion between what is best practice and necessary. It will no doubt be someone who ignores the rules that will end trackdays. Remember the desiderata in which it quotes "there will always be greater and lesser persons than yourself" this is true about driving. Even on a circuit, when things get confused between drivers at high speeds the consequences are the same !

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by DavidBrown:
<B>Whenever I'm being overtaken, I move to the right, and PUT MY INDICTATOR ON.. This lets the guy behind KNOW I've seen him and am giving way.. and not just wandered off the racing line only to swerve back into his path seconds later.

I also lift-off momentarily, to let the guy past quicker.. many times people have pulled over to let me past, and then continued to go a full hammer.. reaching a bend at the same time as me. Foolish.

[This message has been edited by DavidBrown (edited 28 January 2001).][/quote]

Having driven at Goodwood and Castle Coombe, I totally agree with David on his comments above.

I think the problem with Oulton compared to say, Donnington as that it is a far more technically demanding circuit. (That's "Twisty" to you and me ). Some less adept/experienced drivers would be having great trouble setting themselves up for each corner and so would be concentrating less on what's coming up behind them. Easy overtaking opportunities are much less available than at Donny.

Stef and Paul are correct that more attention should be paid to the briefings, and events organised such that warnings are given and if not heeded then the driver consigned to the pits.

But at least there were no shunts! It was generally a great day. Everyone did a great job of organising, and thanks to the experiences gained the following track events will be even better and safer.

(I'm wearing my Nomex, ready for a roasting! )

 

All valid points and need enforcing, remember these aren't etiquette points these are Safety Rules.

However..... much more care is required when there are disparities in the types of vehicle on track.

At a previous Dono I attended there was some PRAT in a white vauxhall vectra race specced type thing, (it's probably in his best interest that I forget his name)

He had slicks on and a lighter stripped out car. He was quick through the bends but dog slow on the straights. He's on my tail (waving his fist) into the esses, so as we get onto the main pit sraight, I move over to let him pass and back off a little on the gas, looked up going down the pit straight and saw him disappearing rapidly in my rear view mirror, so nailed it and opened the gap.

Get to the end of the main straight and a BIG gap has appeared again so I move back onto the racing line, cancel my indicator and, commit for the right hander, hard on the brakes (very late) and he's still nowhere, committed myself to Craner, circa 115mph (ish) and by then his lighter weight and slicks have allowed him to make up the ground. BUT, there is no real overtaking opportunity there and by the time there is it's a straight again and he' drops right back.


He carried out a WILDLY dangerous move on the right on a bend and nearly caused me a HUGE off! (Promptly reported to RobMac and Race control) <I>though words were exchanged with him personally in the pit lane as well</I>!

I have had & seen similar incidents but it goes to illustrate that there is more to consider than you think.

This is by no means the first incident of its type and this one (IMHO) was caused by the over zealous Professional(?) driver thinking he is in a race/is more competent/has a better car/has a god given right to be in front?

Perhaps pure track cars of that type should be in a different session where they can "Race Practice" without causing safety problems for us 'fun' drivers?


[This message has been edited by Mike Tuckwood (edited 29 January 2001).]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mike Tuckwood:
<B>
Perhaps pure track cars of that type should be in a different session where they can "Race Practice" without causing safety problems for us 'fun' drivers?
[/quote]

Definitely.

I think you're referring to Nov 11th Mike ? Both that Vectra, and a race-prepped Comma Escort overtook far too close.. We'd have touched if my paint was any thicker.

This may be usual race practice, but it's not on for track days IMO. Very un-nerving for a novice. I'd even witnessed some people swerve out of the way as they blasted by so closely.

Don't these guys have enough access the tracks at other times ?

 

I agree with Mike, but its not the car that's the problem, its the driver's attitude.

Its one of the reasons why SIDC track days have a good safety record. And the event at Oulton does not really dent that record, when looking back at the overall stats for the past 3+ years.

And its one of the reasons why I prefer to attend SIDC days than "open" track days like Trackzone at Donno.

 

Absolutely, it's <B>people</B> that cause accidents; (usually), this time it was the combination of 'race' car and ar5ehole that equalled danger!

However, the same safety rules for Trackzone events are in place for the SIDC events as they are marshalled Etc, by predominantly the same track staff?

So nothing alters, we find ourselves with a greater range of vehicles at each track day.

Is there an answer? In future, would Stef or "A. N. Other" rep from the club approach ANY organiser where club members are participating with a view to making sure that poor driving/flouting of the rules is gripped <B>before</B> somebody has to complain.

Lets face it, someone only has to post up that there is an event at Dono and within half an hour Impreza drivers have half the available slots.

Our buying power must be good for something and safety is as good an area to flex our muscle as any?

 

That track day back in Nov was the first time I had been to Donington and the Vectra was a pain - almost ruined my day with his stupid antics. The Race Cossie went past so quickly I hardly saw him though...

 

David.
Good point about the waving. I always try to acknowledge someone when they let me pass, which hopefully makes them more courteous in the future. I have to say, I very rarely encounter bad etiquette on track personally, perhaps this is why?

Mike.
Some people, myself included, quite like mixing it on track with other cars besides Scoobies. The Trackzone type days give us this opportunity. With this of course comes the greater clash of power and driver ability, but I think the way they group the cars now is pretty good. Both Donno and the SIDC have excellent safety records, and I think this will continue as long as we keep educating people about track etiquette and safety, myself included!

 

Hows about this one then!!

At an Airfield day last summer (It could easily have been the Scoobynet one)I saw a Porka coming up behind me very quickly. I thought I'll get round this corner then pull over for him. The idiot then proceeded to go up the inside of me through a sharp right hand corner under braking!!

The comment by the marshall afterwards was not to worry he's Jason Plato, the best driver here by a long way.

That may be the case, but he didn't know what I would do on the limit. That really pi55ed me off.

Thankfully, that has been the only occasion (4 days now) where something like that has happened, so normal drivers, on the whole must be more considerate!

Steve

 

Gary,

It's a pity these over-taking rules can't be applied to the Eastern Road!!! :-)

Karlos

 

Gary/Karlos

Sorry to take this off-topic but I thought I'd bring your attention to an upcoming meet in Pompey. See below....