Just switched to 10% methanol – first impressions
16 January 2008, 06:50 PM
#1
Just switched to 10% methanol – first impressions
Some of you might have been reading the ‘Long term use of methanol’ thread in the general technical section: https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...-methanol.html
Well, I tried to resist it, but I couldn’t and with my car already booked in for it’s 45K service at Zen, I asked Paul to ‘tweak the map’ to run 10% methanol. That was all done yesterday and I’m just writing up my first impressions here as I know that some of you are thinking of running a methanol mix too. It’s a long post, but hope it’s useful. My car spec BTW is 03 STI running 321H turbo, tubular headers, 650 injectors, 3” exhaust plus sports cat, CAI, AVCR controller plus usual supporting mods.
First off, getting hold of methanol is extremely easy; just call Jennychem and it arrives the next day on your doorstep. If you buy 25L containers, it works about the same cost as super-unleaded. If you buy the 210L drum with pump (as I will next time), it works out at just over 70p per litre, and is therefore actually cheaper to run than 100% petrol.
The tricky bit is how to dispense it. I bought some 5L petrol containers, but it’s very hard to see how much you’ve dispensed, and unless you have room in the tank to chuck in the whole 5L of methanol plus 45L of fuel, you’ll need to be able to add part measures. I have decided to source some tough, clear 5-litre containers and mark them in 1L graduations. A couple of these in the boot will allow you to cover over 500 miles (more if you take it gently) before needing any more methanol. I also added 100mls of NF to each 5L container of methanol, which equates to 2mls per litre when mixed up with V-Power. The NF and methanol appear to mix well.
The next thing to say is that even with a proper petrol can, sticking 5L in the tank takes a couple of minutes or so; the punters behind me in Wellingborough seemed patient enough and very curious, but if it were very busy, I’d probably pull into the petrol station, chuck the meth in and then move to a pump to fill up!
Anyway, I dropped off the car at Zen on Monday and after the servicing and a new exhaust (3” Milltek with sports cat) fitting, plus some other bits and pieces, Paul got to work on mapping on Tuesday afternoon. At this point, I want to say a big thank you to Paul, Liz and Tim and Gareth at Zen. Tim and Gareth worked late Monday evening to get much of the work completed in time for mapping as I’d travelled so far. They then discovered that Litchfield had sent the wrong downpipe; Paul called Iain Litchfield on Monday night and Iain personally arranged to have one of his guys drive over the right one from Tewkesbury on Tuesday morning – thanks Iain! There was also a problem with a faulty gasket causing a blow, which was only resolved by Tim and Gareth removing and refitting the exhaust 3 times, but they worked tirelessly and without complaint to sort it (which they did).
All of the above meant that mapping couldn’t begin in earnest till around 5pm Tuesday, by which time it was absolutely p1ssing down. However, Paul had promised to get everything completed and worked flat out doing the initial mapping (scaling the MAF etc). By 7pm he was out mapping on the road and come 8pm, I joined him as co-driver to make the final adjustments to the map.
Now, my car was already making 325bhp at the wheels (400bhp fly) before mapping for methanol, but the first time I buried the throttle during this mapping my initial thought was “Holy ****!!” It was like being in a slingshot.
Even with two up in the car and a full tank of fuel, there was barely any time to blink as third gear 3500rpm to 7000rpm disappeared in a blink! After a lot of fine adjustment, Paul managed to add nearly 4 degrees of ignition advance across the rev range and the result was incredible. Unfortunately the roads were awash with water and it wasn’t safe or practical to do a Delta-Dash dyno run, but the seats of the pants o’meter told me there was a really big extra dollop of power. 
Paul made some more adjustments to the map and I didn’t leave Zen till 9.30pm (thanks again Paul). Driving up the M6, the rain was still torrential until north Birmingham. However, once the road dried out a bit, I planted the throttle in 5th and just laughed as I was catapulted forward to silly speeds in a matter of 2-3 seconds. The most amazing thing with methanol is how incredibly silky smooth and powerful the engine becomes at the top end of the rev band, yet it still pulls hard and spools even sooner low down.
Paul had worked on part throttle mapping at 2750-3500rpm (motorway cruising speeds) to maximise mpg, and I noticed very little difference on the way home compared to coming down (you would have expected lower mpg as methanol is oxygen rich and therefore requires more fuel to keep air/fuel ratio correct). Once I turned off the motorway, and headed cross country on my familiar roads, I was astonished at just how rapid the car was. On the very windy bits, I was approaching bends at a good 10mph faster than I had expected! Even though I got home at 2.00am, I felt like taking the car out for another blat!
Anyway, sorry for length of post. If you’re thinking of running methanol, yes it’s a bit more hassle and could be a pain if you use your car a lot and don’t want to faff around when it comes to filling up. But it sure puts a hell of a smile on your face!
Andrew
Well, I tried to resist it, but I couldn’t and with my car already booked in for it’s 45K service at Zen, I asked Paul to ‘tweak the map’ to run 10% methanol. That was all done yesterday and I’m just writing up my first impressions here as I know that some of you are thinking of running a methanol mix too. It’s a long post, but hope it’s useful. My car spec BTW is 03 STI running 321H turbo, tubular headers, 650 injectors, 3” exhaust plus sports cat, CAI, AVCR controller plus usual supporting mods.
First off, getting hold of methanol is extremely easy; just call Jennychem and it arrives the next day on your doorstep. If you buy 25L containers, it works about the same cost as super-unleaded. If you buy the 210L drum with pump (as I will next time), it works out at just over 70p per litre, and is therefore actually cheaper to run than 100% petrol.
The tricky bit is how to dispense it. I bought some 5L petrol containers, but it’s very hard to see how much you’ve dispensed, and unless you have room in the tank to chuck in the whole 5L of methanol plus 45L of fuel, you’ll need to be able to add part measures. I have decided to source some tough, clear 5-litre containers and mark them in 1L graduations. A couple of these in the boot will allow you to cover over 500 miles (more if you take it gently) before needing any more methanol. I also added 100mls of NF to each 5L container of methanol, which equates to 2mls per litre when mixed up with V-Power. The NF and methanol appear to mix well.
The next thing to say is that even with a proper petrol can, sticking 5L in the tank takes a couple of minutes or so; the punters behind me in Wellingborough seemed patient enough and very curious, but if it were very busy, I’d probably pull into the petrol station, chuck the meth in and then move to a pump to fill up!
Anyway, I dropped off the car at Zen on Monday and after the servicing and a new exhaust (3” Milltek with sports cat) fitting, plus some other bits and pieces, Paul got to work on mapping on Tuesday afternoon. At this point, I want to say a big thank you to Paul, Liz and Tim and Gareth at Zen. Tim and Gareth worked late Monday evening to get much of the work completed in time for mapping as I’d travelled so far. They then discovered that Litchfield had sent the wrong downpipe; Paul called Iain Litchfield on Monday night and Iain personally arranged to have one of his guys drive over the right one from Tewkesbury on Tuesday morning – thanks Iain! There was also a problem with a faulty gasket causing a blow, which was only resolved by Tim and Gareth removing and refitting the exhaust 3 times, but they worked tirelessly and without complaint to sort it (which they did).
All of the above meant that mapping couldn’t begin in earnest till around 5pm Tuesday, by which time it was absolutely p1ssing down. However, Paul had promised to get everything completed and worked flat out doing the initial mapping (scaling the MAF etc). By 7pm he was out mapping on the road and come 8pm, I joined him as co-driver to make the final adjustments to the map.
Now, my car was already making 325bhp at the wheels (400bhp fly) before mapping for methanol, but the first time I buried the throttle during this mapping my initial thought was “Holy ****!!” It was like being in a slingshot.
Even with two up in the car and a full tank of fuel, there was barely any time to blink as third gear 3500rpm to 7000rpm disappeared in a blink! After a lot of fine adjustment, Paul managed to add nearly 4 degrees of ignition advance across the rev range and the result was incredible. Unfortunately the roads were awash with water and it wasn’t safe or practical to do a Delta-Dash dyno run, but the seats of the pants o’meter told me there was a really big extra dollop of power. Paul made some more adjustments to the map and I didn’t leave Zen till 9.30pm (thanks again Paul). Driving up the M6, the rain was still torrential until north Birmingham. However, once the road dried out a bit, I planted the throttle in 5th and just laughed as I was catapulted forward to silly speeds in a matter of 2-3 seconds. The most amazing thing with methanol is how incredibly silky smooth and powerful the engine becomes at the top end of the rev band, yet it still pulls hard and spools even sooner low down.
Paul had worked on part throttle mapping at 2750-3500rpm (motorway cruising speeds) to maximise mpg, and I noticed very little difference on the way home compared to coming down (you would have expected lower mpg as methanol is oxygen rich and therefore requires more fuel to keep air/fuel ratio correct). Once I turned off the motorway, and headed cross country on my familiar roads, I was astonished at just how rapid the car was. On the very windy bits, I was approaching bends at a good 10mph faster than I had expected! Even though I got home at 2.00am, I felt like taking the car out for another blat!
Anyway, sorry for length of post. If you’re thinking of running methanol, yes it’s a bit more hassle and could be a pain if you use your car a lot and don’t want to faff around when it comes to filling up. But it sure puts a hell of a smile on your face!
Andrew
Last edited by lunar tick; 16 January 2008 at 06:58 PM.
16 January 2008, 09:06 PM
#2
Subaru Tuning Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 7.74 @179 mph 1/4 mile - road legal
Posts: 6,654
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Good write up 
you could earn a living doing that 
I look forward to the next installment when you also add Toluene 
The NF has been known not to stay in solution with 100% Methanol, Bob Rawle also noticed this IIRC.
Did you also change the induction as well as the full exhaust ? Just curious why else you would need to spend a few hrs scaling the maf ?
Andy
you could earn a living doing that I look forward to the next installment when you also add Toluene The NF has been known not to stay in solution with 100% Methanol, Bob Rawle also noticed this IIRC.
Did you also change the induction as well as the full exhaust ? Just curious why else you would need to spend a few hrs scaling the maf ?
Andy
Last edited by Andy.F; 16 January 2008 at 09:16 PM.
16 January 2008, 09:48 PM
#4
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wellingborough, Northamptonshire
Posts: 2,859
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes induction was swapped to a larger housing CAK (hyperflow) MAF scaling took a while as I've not mapped that paticular combination of MAF housing, injectors, ECU and overall airflow requirements.
16 January 2008, 09:56 PM
#6
Trending Topics
16 January 2008, 10:27 PM
#10
Only problem is if I'm caught short without methanol to put in.
Also for time attack no methanol is allowed.
Also for time attack no methanol is allowed.
Last edited by Dill_typeR; 16 January 2008 at 10:32 PM. Reason: cheese
16 January 2008, 10:38 PM
#11
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fantastic results all round. Its something I'm considering in the future too, and hearing your views may have swayed me to do the same.
They really are a top team at Zen, and I'll take this opportunity to thank them for fitting me in last minute and sorting out my new brakes.
The rain was terrible, and my drive home was relaxed at best.
They really are a top team at Zen, and I'll take this opportunity to thank them for fitting me in last minute and sorting out my new brakes.
The rain was terrible, and my drive home was relaxed at best.
16 January 2008, 10:49 PM
#13
Fantastic results all round. Its something I'm considering in the future too, and hearing your views may have swayed me to do the same.
They really are a top team at Zen, and I'll take this opportunity to thank them for fitting me in last minute and sorting out my new brakes.
The rain was terrible, and my drive home was relaxed at best.
They really are a top team at Zen, and I'll take this opportunity to thank them for fitting me in last minute and sorting out my new brakes.
The rain was terrible, and my drive home was relaxed at best.
16 January 2008, 10:53 PM
#15
Paul has advised me that the low-boost 2nd map will be fine for those occasions I can't use methanol. Ideally though I'd like an ECU that can hold 3 full maps - one for funny fuel, one for neat V-Power and a boring low-boost economy map for use with 95RON in case I really am caught out
16 January 2008, 10:59 PM
#16
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
16 January 2008, 11:18 PM
#18
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Class record holder at Pembrey Llandow Goodwood MIRA Hethel Blyton Curborough Lydden and Snetterton
Posts: 8,626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Could PFC users dial out say 5 degrees of timing if they ran out of meth?
Or would the change in AFR need addressing too?
Or would the change in AFR need addressing too?
16 January 2008, 11:28 PM
#19
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wellingborough, Northamptonshire
Posts: 2,859
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
17 January 2008, 10:11 AM
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sheffield; Rome of the North
Posts: 17,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good write up you could earn a living doing that I look forward to the next installment when you also add Toluene
The NF has been known not to stay in solution with 100% Methanol, Bob Rawle also noticed this IIRC.
Did you also change the induction as well as the full exhaust ? Just curious why else you would need to spend a few hrs scaling the maf ?
Andy
you could earn a living doing that I look forward to the next installment when you also add Toluene The NF has been known not to stay in solution with 100% Methanol, Bob Rawle also noticed this IIRC.
Did you also change the induction as well as the full exhaust ? Just curious why else you would need to spend a few hrs scaling the maf ?
Andy
17 January 2008, 02:46 PM
#26
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: 392/361 MY04 STi
Posts: 7,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice write up. I'm keen to see the delta dash comparison.
I contemplated methanol last year, but settled for NF instead. I'm starting to lean towards methanol again.
From those that know, is it worth a mapping session just adding methanol?
Or should i start saving for tubular headers to compliment it. (Just have ported oe ones).
I contemplated methanol last year, but settled for NF instead. I'm starting to lean towards methanol again.
From those that know, is it worth a mapping session just adding methanol?
Or should i start saving for tubular headers to compliment it. (Just have ported oe ones).
17 January 2008, 03:06 PM
#28
Nice write up. I'm keen to see the delta dash comparison.
I contemplated methanol last year, but settled for NF instead. I'm starting to lean towards methanol again.
From those that know, is it worth a mapping session just adding methanol?
Or should i start saving for tubular headers to compliment it. (Just have ported oe ones).
I contemplated methanol last year, but settled for NF instead. I'm starting to lean towards methanol again.
From those that know, is it worth a mapping session just adding methanol?
Or should i start saving for tubular headers to compliment it. (Just have ported oe ones).
17 January 2008, 05:20 PM
#29
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: 392/361 MY04 STi
Posts: 7,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gaz - what turbo are you running? FWIW, I initially ran the 321H on ported PEM headers, but when I switched to tubular headers (with a remap), there was a very significant increase in torque and power with virtually no loss of spool. I would therefore recommend tubulars as a good supporting mod for this turbo