whip

Not sure what the law is on bus lanes, but basically as long as you (a) didn't exceed the speed limit (b) didn't cross over a solid white line and (c) there were no 'no overtaking' signs in place then I'd say you were perfectly legal. The only bus lanes I've seen though tend to have a solid white line, but I'd expect the copper to make that clear when he pulled you over. Sounds like he just used it as an excuse to breathalise you tho - I've been pulled over at 75mph and had the copper tell me I was doing 105 just as an excuse for a 'random check'. If they're gonna random check people why can't they just say so rather than making up BS 'violations' to cover it?

Whip

BuRR

Cos they can't just breathalise people ***** nilly.

You can only breathalise after

a) A moving traffic offence / violation
b) RTA
c) suspecting alcohol (ie smell on breath)

Random breath tests are not allowed.

Luke

I thought that the police ,should they have any reason to stop you .Test you????

Richard Askew

I was stopped for a "random" breath test last week.

BuRR

Random breathtests are not allowed.

Any person who is driving, attempting to drive, or in charge of a motor vehicle on the road, or in a public place (eg a pub car park or a garage forecourt), may be required by the police to provide a breath test, to ascertain whether they are over the prescribed limit of alcohol - 35 microgrammes of alcohol per litre of breath (or 80 millilitres of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood).

The request must be made by a police officer in uniform, but can only be made if one of the following situations apply :-

The police officer has reasonable cause to suspect that you have committed, or are currently committing a moving traffic offence, or if, having stopped, an officer has reasonable cause to suspect that the person driving/attempting to drive/in charge of the vehicle has consumed alcohol, or the police officer has reasonable cause to believe that you were the person driving/attempting to drive/in charge of a motor vehicle which was involved in an accident.

So does that mean that the police can just stop your car if you are driving along and insist on giving you a roadside breath test?

The answer is NO.

They are entitled to randomly stop your car, but they can only insist on a breath test if they have reasonable cause to suspect you have committed a traffic offence, or have consumed alcohol (eg they can smell it on your breath), or they reasonably believe you have been involved in an accident (eg the description of your car matches that given by a witness).

Richard Askew

....Plod said it was the night after boxing day so chances were that I had alcohol in my system.... is a bollocking letter to the chief c(u)ntstable in order?

BuRR

erm - depends how well he can justify his suspicion that you had alcohol. He can't just assume. He has to qualify his suspicions...

ie) unsteady on his feet, eyes red and glazed, speech slurred, breath smelled of intoxicants.

If the reason he gave was as you described, then I feel his breath sample request was unlawful.

If you'd have been subsequently arrested for refusing to provide a sample, then I would have been tempted to sue for unlawful arrest and detention, so sure, a letter of complaint can't harm....

Richard Askew

'cept I'll get hassle for the rest of my driving days...
<someone cynical could alledge>

evo kid

On the industrail estate i work on (north wales ) its not uncommen this time of year to be on my way to work at 6:30 and come across a trafic que (very unusual).

whats usally causing the ques is the police have set up a road block , to test drivers for drink driving .
there doesent seam to be any perticular way of testing they donet stop all cars , and just stick there heads in your window and ask you if you have hAd a drink the nite before , .

GazP

Well near where I live, in the North West, they just block the road and test everyone. I'm not condoning drink driving, but that just takes the biscuit.

sulli

I thought random breath testing was unlawful.

So what if you are breathalysed following a random stop - no cause for being pulled, just a 'random breath test' - and are over the limit. Or do you refuse to give one and get arrested?

Don't condone D&D - just interested in the legalities.

BuRR

If you're over the limit, then they can arrest you under Section 4 of the RTA.... on suspicion of driving whilst unfit through drink or drugs (but again must qualify as to their suspicions re your driving being impaired through drink/drugs)

If you know you're absolutely under the limit, then a brave person would take note of exactly what words are said and when. Technically, as soon as an officer suspects that an offence has been committed, then he/she MUST caution you so that anything you say then becomes admissable.

To request a breath test, as I have mentioned above, any of the three pointers must be fulfilled - offence/RTA/suspect alcohol.

Just for the record, whether you are drunk or not, simply refusing to provide a specimen upon request carries a power of arrest, although you would surely argue at a later point as to the legality of the request in the first place.

Try it? Maybe if a civil appeal for wrongful arrest / detention is proved, then it could finance that Scooby mod you were wishing for?

Rather you than me though

scud8

iTrader: (1)

What slightly bugged me was the fact that he didn't stop the taxi that did exactly the same manueuvre ahead of me, and at much higher speed. I'm pretty sure I exceeded the speed limit, but only by a few mph - whereas the taxi must have been doing 45mph in a 30 limit. I think he was just after an excuse to breathalyse me, and reasoned that the taxi driver was unlikely to have been drinking.

Any more thoughts on the bus lane question? To be honest, I didn't feel it was unreasonable for him to stop me to meet his quota of breath tests for the night (although arguably the person doing 20mph was probably more likely to have been drinking) - I just want to know the legalities of overtaking another vehicle in the bus lane for future reference.

sulli

I would presume the road becomes a dual carriageway effectively, therefore you can overtake, and cross the unbroken line as long as you indicate manoeuvre and do not exceed speed limit - as the bus lane is no longer such, and the unbroken line can be treated as a normal lane divider when lane is not a bus lane anymore. phew

Mike Burton

Can't say I have a problem with being stopped for *random* breath tests anyway.
Be it legitimate or not, whats the problem?

On a different tone, I got stopped when I was 17 after leaving the local super market in the early hours of the morning. (shelf stacker) for a back light out. Two coppers on board, one then asked if I'd been drinking. I laughed at him, and said, "you've just seen me leave work". Anyway, he carried on giving me all the legal stuff about failing to provide a sample etc. telling me it was not a laughing matter.
So there I was chatting away, having a laugh and joke with the Sarg. in the car, and this new recruit type was doing everything by the book, not too happy that I was taking the **** for him thinking I'd been drinking.

When I got the all clear + ticket for light out, the Sarg said sorry for the delay and wished me a safe journey home, and then muttered something about new starters

Still wasn't a problem.

--
Mike

BuRR

Unfortunately, that's a problem that the average driver will get with new recruit probationer officers.

They have only 10 weeks to prove they're fit for the job, and have to show their assessor that thet have the relevant "skills and knowledge" Therefore, discretion goes out of the window.

So, if you get stopped, pray its a normal patrol officer, rather than a traffic bod or a probationer. You're more chance of getting off with a word or two of advice.

They're all on drugs.

Can you pass me that piece of paper on the desk, Selina?

thanks.

scud8

iTrader: (1)

I got pulled over in the early hours of yesterday morning for overtaking a car that was traveling at ~20mph in a bus lane. The bus lane only operates during commuter hours, so it was perfectly legitimate for the car to be driving in it, but I didn't think there was any problem with me using the remainder of the carriageway to overtake him (obviously provided it was otherwise safe to do so).

The copper that pulled me over claimed this was a moving traffic violation, so legitimate grounds to breathalyse me (I hadn't been drinking so no problem). Since it was clear he wasn't going to ticket me for the offence, I didn't argue, but it's left me confused on what the law is here.

My understanding is when the bus lane is not operating, the road is considered a single carriageway. It's also my understanding that it's not an offense per-se to overtake someone on a single carriageway, provided it is safe to do so - whether or not you need to cross to the opposite carriageway is immaterial.

No complaints about the behaviour of the PC otherwise - he was very pleasant and courteous, especially when I passed the breath test. Obviously not a regular traffic copper (driving a van) - just drafted in for the busy evening's breath testing.

[Edited because I can't remember how to use icons!]

[Edited by scud8 - 1/2/2002 10:48:16 AM]

Richard Askew

[smug]
ps - Not a trace of booze was to be found
[/smug]

[Edited by Richard Askew - 1/2/2002 12:11:12 PM]

Jerome

I got stopped years ago when a cop car saw me pulling out of a pub car-park on a Saturday afternoon. I would have thought that was reasonable grounds to stop and breathalyse me. But, no, they trumped up a ridiculous reason for stopping me. "A known disqualified driver is driving a car that fits the description of yours" (white Vauxhall Chevette hatch - it was a long time ago!). As it happens I hadn't been drinking (or even been in the pub) so they didn't even breathalyse me (after smelling my breath - bet the copper really regretting pulling me after that! ).

I've always thought that "unofficially" random breath testing was happening, I just wish the coppers used a bit more imagination in inventing reasons to stop people...

[Edited by Jerome - 1/2/2002 2:11:18 PM]

WRXBOB

I'm all for random breathalyser testing. You shouldnt drink and drive (and hopefully nobody on scoobynet does) so whats the problem with giving the policeman a blow.....eer...I meant blowing his instrument......oooh eer this is coming out all wrong.....
Blowing into his breathalyser device.

If random testing WAS allowed then maybe fewer d!ck heads would drink and drive, which can only be a good thing...right?

Maybe I'll get flamed but drunk drivers are potential MURDERERS and I'm totally against it. I have friends who lost a daughter through a drunk driver and it devastates the family.

Sorry to go off on one but it hit a nerve [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

BOB

Edited because I got my first corner
(& I wasnt even trying!)

[Edited by WRXBOB - 1/2/2002 11:11:45 PM]