Kempo

A couple of weeks back I was flashed by a speed camera and have received an "early christmas present" of the above notice in the post. This happened in London on what I thought was a 50mph road, but once it flashed I assumed it must be a 40mph limit - I looked down at the speedo immediately and it was between 45 - 50mph...

To my horror, the Police notification says (30MPH RESTRICTED ROAD)! I can't believe this. The road is:

New Kent Rd, East of Searles Rd SE1

Basically, it is the main (f off) road that is the end of the A20 into South East london. The approach to the camera was dual carriageway which splitted, the right lane up to a roundabout, the left lane forming a filter (roundabout bypass) lane that was then joined by the road coming back from the other side of the roundabout. I was flashed just as the left lane re-joined back to 2 lanes and as I accelerated slightly to "join the flow". Again, I was doing max 45 - 50 mph at this time.

Does anyone know this road? I just don't understand how it could possibly be a 30 limit.

So, what happens from here? I need to return their form indicating who was driving - how many points am I looking at. I assume they settle out of court for speed camera offences. What is the worst case scenario i.e. if they have me at 50mph and hold out to the 30mph limit???

Nice christmas, not...I hate waiting!!!

Thanks for any help.
Paul

JoeyDeacon

is the postmark on the letter more than 14 days after the offence took place?

Kempo

Unfortunately not - it was posted 10 days after the incident. That's what I was hoping for as today was 14 days but they posted it on the 14 december

Jerome

Although I can't say I know the road in question, there are plenty of roads that are almost motorways in London that are 30 limits. Not much good now, but I would recommend assuming all roads in Central London are 30 limits (regardless of size, number of lanes, speed of other traffic etc.) - until you see a higher speed limit sign.

The first thing I'd do with the NIP is to ask for a photo because obviously you aren't sure who was driving. You never know your luck, they might lose the paperwork.

I assume the NIP doesn't indicate what speed you were doing, but even if was "only" 50, you could still plead guilty by post and get the standard 3 points and £60(?) fine.

DavidRB

Go back and check the road for yourself to see what the speed limit really is.

Kempo

Jerome, good point re: roads in London. It was really a moment of carelessness on my part because up until then I had been doing spot on all the limits.

Still disagree with the limit though - if they treat it more seriously (than 3 points, 60 quid? fine) then I will look at the signage around the scene and dispute it.

MattW

Good advice from DavidRB.

Check whether 30 mph signs are obscured or missing. There is a set interval which they should appear. Take photos, or video evidence.

If this is the case you could argue that you thought the road was dual carriageway i.e 70mph - just act dumb.

SWRTWannabe

If it goes to court could you possibly get the police to provide evidence that there was no way to get to the speed camera without passing a speed limit sign that was not obscured / missing etc.

If they can't do that, does that improve your case?

Just a thought!

Adam M

sorry matt but not true.

Roads are 30 unless otherwise indicated. If a sign was obscured he should assume 30 unless coming out of a higher speed area in which case he migth have something to go on.

Best advice isd aking to see photo, this is within your right and can create enough agro for them to drop the charge.

Kempo

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I know the highway code states that urban roads without signs and or lamp posts set at certain intervals deem it to be 30mph limit. If I missed a change of speed indicator then I have only myself to blame for not observing it correctly (it was late at night & pretty dark!).

The key thing could be, I am adamant the road leading up to the roundabout was 40mph - I was taken onto this filter lane by being in the left lane at which point it seems this stretch of road is 30mph (per the NIP). If it is the case that this stretch only switches to 30mph then I will need to verify the position and existence of the speed sign.

If my fault I will have to bend over and let John Prescott take me up the backbox and rest assured that my contribution (fine) will benefit all road users in better quality roads and improved public transport...Yeah right!!!!!

Cheers
Paul

speedking

MattW

I thought it was the opposite of your statement in that the authorities are not allowed to display '30' signs wihin the zone, but only at the boundary where the speed limit drops. I have heard this as an argument for not posting signs at a set distance before a camera to give the motorist a chance.

How about sticking the relevant speed limit sign to each camera, then there'd be no doubt. (Bit highly visible though )

Since you admit (here anyway) that you could have been doing 50, whether the limit is 30 or 40 is probably a moot point, as the punishment will most likely be the same.

[Edited by speedking - 12/18/2001 12:52:32 PM]

CraigD

There are guidelines for speed limit signing in Traffic Advisory Leaflet 1/95. However the spacings given are only guidelines to good practice.
If there is a streetlighting system (lamps not more than 183m apart) then there must be terminal signs on the entry to the speed limit but repeater signs are not required.
If there is not a streetlighting system then the maximum spacings are as follows:
Max dist between consecutive signs on the same side of the carriageway 400m
Max dist between consecutive signs on alternate sides of the carriageway 250m

Unfortunately if you didn’t see a speed limit sign and you were in a street lit area then it must have been a 30mph limit. This could happen to us all

Craig

Jolly Green Monster 2

I'd definitly ask for the picture... saying you are not sure who was driving...

A mate did the same, he rang up and asked, I thought he was mad doing so at the time... but a photo copy of a picture came through which was obvious it was him and he said fair cop and paid up... there was no hassle by asking... you never know it might be two much hassle for them this time. Also go back down there (at 30 :-)) and check the limit etc.. might be that a sign is missing on the route you took... even if you don't get off due to this it might get a sign replaced, moved so no one else is caught...
or would that be too nice? :-)

Good luck...

ho ho JGM

rapiddescent

sorry mate,

but I drive that road quite a lot and it is definitely a 30.

its right after the point where two lanes converge and a bus lane starts - always loads of kids there in the morning so there could be a school nearby.

45-50 is quite fast for there actually - because there is usually stationary traffic back from Elephant & Castle and the 'slow' set of traffic lights half way to E&C.

you've got to be careful in London as some dual carraigeways are only 30mph and it seems the UK is adopting the Australian approach of sign posting a new speed every 100m.

rd

Kempo

rapiddescent,
Thanks for the info, saves me a trip down there with the camera I suppose

Question, as you drive down there alot - where does it change from being 40mph to 30mph, is it before the roundabout or during the filter lane? Looks like I missed the 30mph limit sign (doh!).

Oh, and it was at 10:15pm when (unfortunately for me) there was little traffic!

Thanks
Paul

hugebeef

Some good advice there...

I've driven that road quite a few times and have wondered about the speed limit. I just stick to 30, but I have to agree it is a bit confusing.

Every time I drive on "that" road it's always in the day time, I get people up my **** constantly... maybe they haven't realised the speed limit either.

Good luck with the NIP though; hopefully they'll lose your photo! Out of interest, how many people are on your insurance? As this might help if you can't be identifed in the photo.