Dave Thornton

Given that trackday insurance is getting more expensive each year, owning a cheap £1000 car for trackdays, on 3rd party insurance, may be a better idea.

So, which of these would make the best trackday car (i.e. a road legal car, with Mot and reasonable running costs, which is fast and also fun on the track). All cars currently for sale in Auto Trader. (You may also have ideas of your own - look forward to an interesting debate)

1992 Alfa 164 3.0V6
1988 BMW 325i
1989 205 GTI 1.9
1990 405 Mi16
1985 Porsche 924S
1987 Saab 900 Turbo
1989 Renault 21 Turbo
1991 Subaru Legacy Estate 2.0
1995 Cavalier V6 (£1095)
1988 Golf GTI 16v

Dream Weaver

205 or Mi16 defo (or combine both???) - quick, handle very well, reliable, nuff said.

DW

FRP

The pug GTI 1.6 would be better than 1.9, nearly as fast and handles better, the brakes might last longer aswell.

frisby

Whilst some of the cars on you list would probably be ok on track as they stand, I wouldn't like to put a 205 gti on track without a roll cage with proper seats and harnesses. Having looked at a few myself that were about the £1000 mark, I wouldn't be keen on rolling/hitting the tyre wall in one without some safety measures in place which would bring the cost up.

From your list, the V6 Cav looks interesting, but the rear wheel drive BMW layout would probably give you more fun per £.

At the end of the day its going to be down to personal preference.

Maybe theres something on the list you've always fancied and nows the chance to see if it lives up to your aspirations when going at 10/10ths round a track

or

maybe it worth finding out which one is cheapest to maintain in terms of gearboxes/engines/brakes etc....especially considering the cars are 10yrs or older and probably not the most mechanically robust vehicles on the road these days!!!

laters

fris

TaviaRS

3 more you may want to consider:

VW Jetta 16v (16v Golf with a boot, and a whole load cheaper)
Toyota Corolla GTI 1.6 16v (either the 3 door hatch or the RWD coupe)
Nissan Primera eGT

I'm looking at these 3 for track days and for sprints and hill climbs (roadgoing category).

Dave T-S

I've just gone down exactly that route - bought a 205 GTI 1.9 as next year's track day car as I didn't fancy putting £32k of MY01 on it's roof in a gravel trap.....

A bit over your budget, as it's a 93K car....the intention was to put a cage/seats/harnesses etc in it.

However, having driven it around for a few weeks, i've gone off the idea - and having three modified cars between two of us, when we spend most of our time together in one car, is maybe a bit excessive

Have decided to keep it as standard, and it's for sale in the Private section...

silverscoobports

the handling of the porsche 924/944 is great i love em but not the fastest car in the world i still got a 924 u can pick em up cheap as chips

MarkCSC

924S bullet proof 2.5 litre engine (150 bhp) from the 944. Great handling, well balanced, lovely steering.
Great car, if it is a good one buy it!
Oh an dit is a man's car as it is RWD

If you are interested I can get a buyers guide .

Mark

GP

if you're looking at quick hatches, how bout a GTE 16v ? - a few mods and they're super cars, and you can't beat the 20xe engine for NA tuneability.

jon hill

a collegue here is about to put her 205 gti 1.6 up for sale. Not sure whats she's looking for, but i'm guessing at the 1000 - 1500 mark. She's had it 7 years, reliable, nothing clever, etc... From what I know of her i cant imagine the cars had a hard life. Interested ?

Another option - i met a guy at goodwood last summer who bought a renault 5 turbo with a blown engine for a grand and fitted a 2 litre unit from a family renault saloon thing (12 ? 7 ? cant remember) which cost 150 quid. Put it on slicks and the thing absolutly flew...

Darren Thompson

Well if it helps I know some one who is selling a Pug 205 1.6 GTI with full half leather seats and 1.9 wheels for £550 with a long MOT ect as he is going abroad ASAP and needs to get rid as soon as.

Darren.

07979 800880.

daztomo@yahoo.co.uk

Renault21Porsche0

Hi Dave,

I have a 1989 Renault 21 Turbo which has to go to a good home whether I like it or not! It made it round the Nurburgring in June/July (much to the surprise of Harj, Stef et al and even survived a collision with a Boxster (hence the UserName).

It has 11 months MOT, no tax, runs very well and has been looked after.

I won't be asking a grand for it so mail me if your'e interested...

Cheers
Good luck in your search.

Lee

Olly

2.8 Capri or Sierra XR4i.

MatthewC

(Top tracktastic topic!)

I'll go back to the original list, and make comments of varying intelligence:

1992 Alfa 164 3.0V6
- probably nasty weight-distribution and shoddy Eye-talian build quality
1988 BMW 325i
- quick enough, durable mechanicals, basically too soft/heavy to be chuckable, but well balanced.
1989 205 GTI 1.9
- never driven one, but sound great (although 1.6 might be nicer balance). Again, dodgy french build would be a worry
1990 405 Mi16
- No idea - possibly bit ungainly?
1985 Porsche 924S
- nice balanced, bullet-proof. Bit heavy.
1987 Saab 900 Turbo
- no idea
1989 Renault 21 Turbo
- ditto!
1991 Subaru Legacy Estate 2.0
- probably a good tow-car for your Caterfield - if it's lashing down, take out the Scooby instead!
1995 Cavalier V6 (£1095)
- sounds horrible. Like a Fiat Coupe with none of the good points.
1988 Golf GTI 16v
- fairly quick/chuckable. Durable. Maybe a Mk1 8V would be better? (ligher, simpler engine, rarer!)

Crapis/Sierras have been mentioned. I know people running both succesfully. I wouldn't expect to buy a cheap decent one, but a good bet if you're handy with spanners/welder.
(have you seen www.xr4x4.co.uk or whatever it's called?)

I've only driven a few of the above, so my opinion is woe-fully ill-informed, but some of it might help!

p.s. If too many people get the idea of running cheap "beaters", I can see a 2-tier track day market developing. Would YOU want to share a track with any of the above while driving your £30K shiny track toy?

richbay

i brought a MK1 1600 MR2 for my tack day car, great handling, much fun, my mate has a sierra XR4x4 thats faster just does not look as good, IMHO

NOZZER

It would have to be a corrolla GT coupe rwd slip diff linked as standard put in a cage and bilstein and some sideways action

Dave Thornton

Some really good suggestions. This project is still at the thinking stage at the moment, but I'm wavering towards a Pug as I've got Peugeot blood in me.

How about this one?:
Peugeot 309 GTi, 1989, F reg . Vecta immobiliser, light blue metallic, all old MOTs, 11 months test, very quick and reliable, K & N filter, etc . £575.

At that price it's "throwaway" and has the benefit of slightly lower insurance (group 13) than a 205 GTI 1.9 and has the all important PAS. Some say that the 309 handles better than the 205, with its slighly longer wheelbase but it's a fraction slower on the track. There's been much comment about whether the 205 GTI 1.6 is better handling than the 1.9. As I've owned 2 of each, I would agree that it is more chuckable, but I would still plump for a 1.9. The 405 Mi16, which I owned about 6 years ago, was slower accelerating than the 205GTIs but its handling balance and superior braking meant it was 4 seconds a lap quicker around the Silverstone GP circuit. However, there is much to go wrong. Finally, the Cavalier V6 is an "interesting" proposition but they are very expensive to insure and quite thirsty I expect. And the debate about whether to fit Konis hasn't even started yet!

polarbearit

I had a 309 GTI, for a while, great cars, plenty quick enough, cheaper than the equivalent 205 and more space too...

mine had a few extras and made over 160 bhp, in the dry it would keep up with most things... Liftoff oversteer fun too

Check the electrics, clean oil, accident damage etc, the engines are good, mine had done over 130k when I sold.

Would I have one again, yep, for £500 you get a lot of performance and good handling. Cars after end 1989 had a slight facelift which gave better quality interior and different back lights.

Mail me if you need anymore info...

Jon

sulli

Fiat Uno Turbo - can wind em up a bit to half decent power - same with R5 turbo - but the same applies to them as the 1.9 Gti - how it would handle a prang is a bit worrying. The Pug has the edge over both on handling.

BTW - I have a 1.9 gti and the only things that may bother you: 1. Keeping it in a good state of tune - pretty easy to DIY if you are not a total spanner, 2. Flimsiness - would love a roll cage, but waste of money, and dont normally worry about stuff like that.

GTE 16v with uprated suspension and a few tweeks would give the 1.9 a good run, and a wee bit more solid.

Gary Foster

Quite a few people are using Pug 205's and they seem to be good fun - pretty damn quick, but of course FWD will bore you very quickly once all the other sods are doing massive broadies all over the show.

It has too be RWD for a laugh on track days, Porker might be OK - I've driven a 968 which was super. But inevitably the big heavy cars you've listed are going to cost you much more in wear than the purchase cost (tyres, brakes, fuel etc).

Spend a bit more and get a sevenesque type thing, a crappy old Lo-Cost can be had for a couple of grand and even the slowest will have the BHP / Ton of a Scoob.

Other than that the Mk1 Mr2 is an excellent choice, same thing as a Lotus elise without the price but with more Bhp.

Gary (bin there, got the T-shirt / Car)

muddy

Dave,

How did I know you would favour the Pug's!!!!!!

Go for the 309!!!


Muddy.

ski

Alfa 164 no way,try a Alfa 33.much lighter and has a sweet boxer engine.handles very well and is used in the Auto Italia championship with good results.

Z75

Try the last of the Alfa 33s. I had the 16V Boxer engined one (reminiscent of the Scooby) for 20 months and covered 40,000 miles in it. It was quick, light and handled OK. So there is a bit of torque steer but that's inevitable.

Also it was very reliable and didn't rust. So there all you Italophobes. I got it for a bargain £5000 in 1994, now they are no more than £1000 if you can find one. The 1.7IE was no slouch either and would be acceptable for track work. The later 33s had some improvements notably some fine Recaro seats. Then Alfa went and made the 145/146. Aaargh!

While you've got me going, the 155 might not be bad either. Bargain basement prices, terrific engines, decent handling. There is a rare 4WD 2 litre turbo model (LHD only) if you can find one. Never, ever seen it myself.

The 164 is a crap choice. 3 litres through the front wheels. Nice car though. If you want a big engined Alfa try tracking down a 75 3l V6 which is rear wheel drive. Better still the original GTV.

There are loads of these cars in Italy at bargain prices. Try http://www.autosupermarket.it/ or http://www.autoscout24.de/. I also hear that you can pick up an Integrale for a grand in Italy from an Italian friend.

Maybe one day we will be able to pick up Subarus for a grand but until then I think you have a sound idea. No point throwing 30 grand on the roof until you've found out whether you can at least get a banger around the track.

Mo

How about a 309 with the MI16 engine.

dela

Whatever you end up getting, get a rollcage fitted. It doesn't make you indestructable, but on these older cars the extra rigidity definitely gives you some security.

I race an MG Metro, which are not exactly known for their rigidity, and seen quite a few rolled, end-over-ended and stuffed into the tyres. Thanks to the welded in cage, no-one has been hurt. The Metro also proves the point that lightweight is cheap to run, I've done two seasons on the same set of soft yokohama tyres and gone through only one set of brake pads.

It could well be worth looking at an ex-race car (stock hatch xr2 etc./alfa 33/ uno turbo) as these are already setup with safety gear, and are often a cheaper route than retro-fitting the same parts to a cheap road car.

Have fun whatever you choose,
Dave