Rich Curtis

Sulli,
Try and get a local solicitor to represent you, who deals regularly with speeding and motoring offences, ring the clerk of the court and ask their advise.

You should be entitled to costs to cover a solicitor either one supplied by the court or nominated by yourself (the costs were only around £30 anyway).

I got done for 89 in a 60 limit and got off with 4 points and £100 by pleading guilty with a local solicitor (free) and basically doing exactly what TIMH suggests but using a solicitor to get your point across rather than yourself.



[Edited by Rich Curtis - 12/6/2001 1:31:49 PM]

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

Unless the charge is VERY serious (dangerous driving etc) I would avoid going in with a solicitor.

I was banned for 21 days about two years ago and yes, magistrates treat you like s**t as soon as the word speeding is mentioned.

It might be worth trying the 'need license for work purposes' angle and get a letter from your employer if it looks like a ban is on the cards.

Good luck
Phil


[Edited by drumsterphil - 12/6/2001 6:28:37 PM]

sulli

In court in a couple of weeks for driving at excess speed and careless driving.

The statement of the copper thats included in the summons talks of following me in an unmarked car and measures my speed over 0.276 miles on a Pro-Vida speed check at 60.029 mph (40 mph limit on ringroad in Coventry - dual carriageway effectively with exits). Immediately after speed check the vehicle switched from lane 2 into lane 1 and exited - this manoevre was completed without any indication of the drivers intent and across the path of other vehicles.

The statement then details their caution to me and my response - "I dont normally speed but was in a rush" - they don't detail the rest of what I said to them, and why I was in a rush.

As far as I can see I have the choice of pleading guilty by post or attending court.

Any tips?

Seamus

Difficult one.

I decided to go to court, but whilst there (unrepresented by the way) they spoke to me and made me feel like some kind of murderer. I was towing a trailer and they gave me an SP10 (goods vehicle speeding offence????). Even though it was an empty road in the early hours all of this was not on the police report and I felt like they ignored me in court when I tried to explain. Can't give you any advice, however I wouldn't go to court without a solicitor next time (however you have to weigh up the costs of this against potential fines etc). Result: 5 points, £350 fine. Careless driving wasn't on the ticket.

By the way I hate that Coventry ring road, police and cameras everywhere.

Peritas

Thats hard the way they did you

If you think you have a chance fight them in the courts

Checks out the following links and I'm not affilated with them in any way

http://www.abd.org.uk/
and
http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/

for advise on speeding matters

Hope this helps

TIMH WRX

Your reason for being in a rush will be considered irrelevant unless it's literally life threatening and you can prove it. The only thing you can do is to go to court, plead guilty and be extremely humble and apologetic whilst arguing that you need your car for work and are on the bread line. If you've got a clean licence, remind them of that and convince them that you have learnt your lesson and will accept whatever punishment they think appropriate. Any kind of non-legal defence (the speed limit is too low, road was empty, conditions were good etc.) just increases your fine and number of points because it demonstrates that you are prepared to break the law when you decide it's appropriate.

I wouldn't bother employing a solicitor, it'll cost you as much as the fine and it's a very straightforward procedure. If you're a member of the AA they might still offer a legal advice service. Alternatively, book half an hour with a local solicitor to review your defence at an agreed cost before the case. Send all the documents in advance so he can read them beforehand.

I've been to court 4 times for speeding.....

devils_ad69

Sulli,

Speeding is an absolute offence. The police will not be interested why you were rushing now will the magistrates.

Stricyly speaking the highway code expects you to move over to lane 1 after completing an overtake in Lane 2. Don't bother arguing about the officers driving ability. You'll just get more angry and the court will side with him anyway.

What mitigating factors have you got? Condition of road surface, traffic volumes, etc..?

sulli

I am bang to rights with the speeding - I know theres no point in disputing it, or anything that will really mitigate it.

The careless bit I really could do without, and I don't think I was careless. The traffic volume on the inside lane was fairly dense, hence me overtaking them, albeit at a speed above the limit. My exit arrived and I cut across the inside lane, between 2 cars and exited (not sure if I indicated or not, it wasn't clear on the vid they showed me at the time, and I never admitted not indicating). The gap was easily enough for me to go across without affecting any other vehicles, I said at the time to the officer that I had looked over my shoulder and saw a safe gap to exit, and that I was at no time any danger to any other vehicle, nor did they have to adjust their speed. He agreed, and said if I had been a danger I would've been looking at a dangerous driving charge - I told hime it was at most impolite and in no way careless.

I wonder if the video would be used in evidence, and whether I could get a copy prior to the case.

I wrote all the details out the same day of the offence, just in case I had to go to court.

I've got a free initial consultation with a solicitor 2morrow, will take it from there. Admitting the speeding to CPS, but telling them i'll dispute the Careless has been sugested to me, and they may drop the careless, I know I could go through the solicitor to do this, but has anybody done anything similar themselves, that may save me the cost of the solicitor?

Cheers for all advice so far

devils_ad69

Sulli,

Re: you moving across between the cars

I suppose the officers is looking at this from the point of view of 'Did you eat into the others cars overall stopping distance?' - If you did (even though you claimed to them it was safe) they'll take a very dim view of this.

They'll be wondering what would have happened had either of the cars had to emergency brake just at the moment you were in their safety zone.

I'd agree that your best bet is to get in touch with a knowledgable solicitor who handles such cases.

MattW

Terminology in law speak

Isn't careless driving actually "driving without due care and attention".

If so, you may be convicted not for being careless, but for not being careful enough.

Seems a bit harsh to me though. You could try doing a deal with the CPS - plead guilty to speeding, they offer no evidence for careless driving(charge not actually dropped and therfore they keep face).

sulli

Yeah I thought the offence was 'without due care and attention' - but summons states careless driving.

As I was fully aware of what was going on, looking over shoulder etc and considered it safe, i'd say I was driving with due care and attention - but the Copper may disagree - he was a smug **** by the way - but maybe i'm just bitter

nom

It's a tricky one, the 'breaking into someone else's emergency breaking area' being called 'driving without due care & attention". I think if we never broke into it, once in the outside lane we'd never leave circular roads... everyone drives so close together (most of the time within their own safety zones anyway). Don't know if or how that could be made use of, though.

devils_ad69

nom,

I agree with your analysis. But,at the end of the day, it is tailgating and it is dangerous.

sulli

Not sure if you can picture it as it was - the time I was behind one of the cars was less than a second as I went straight across the inside lane into the exit lane, and I knew, from the look over my shoulder, that the exit lane was clear. Therefore, even if the car in front (and it wasn't that close-probably not as close as the queue of cars nose to tail which i'd just overtaken) had emergency braked, I would have avoided him better than any braking, as I would have continued where I was going - difficult to teel though without vid, will ask solicitor about getting a copy - may be some stuff on there to mitigate my actions - like the queue driving nose to tail at 40+ mph.

MARK MORRIS

makes me realise i got off lucky, i got pulled earlier , copper had me doing 95 in a 60, he was good and gave me three points/£60 fine for it
mark

Beemer_Deano

Regarding solicitors, about 5 years ago I was going to court & looking at a ban (under "totting up"). I visited a solicitor for advice & they charged me £40 for a letter to present to the magistrates and told me to get into court early doors and ask for a duty solicitor to represent me. The duty solicitor advised me not to present the letter (there were a couple of things in it which didn't show me in the best light) - he spoke for me and got me off. I don't know if duty solicitors still exist, but it might be an idea - it also gets around the predjudice some magistrates are rumoured to have against people who turn up on speeding offences with a flash solicitor (especially if you're pleading poverty as a mitigating circumstance!).

Good luck,

Deano

scottdg

Sulli,

I got bagged by a camera on the A1 whilst playing silly buggers with an M3. My speed was 103mph.

I was in turn issued a summons due to the speed involved and given the option of appearing before the magistrate or sending in my details/license etc. I contacted my solicitor (who incedently specialisies in such matters) and he told me to plead guilty, but under no circumstances appear before the court as quite often once in the dock they tend to make an example of you.
I did however write a letter under his guidence detailing (in brief) the following:

Firstly an apology for not appearing before the magistrate( I was getting married that week)
that my job involved driving a minimum of 50k per annum
I run my own business and have at least 6 dependants who's position would suffer if I lost my license
I have had a clean license for the last 9yrs and at the time only had 3 pts on my license.
Assurance that this stupid behaviour was totally out of character and will never happen again
And most importantly an apology for wasting their time.

If you can honestly use any of the above it should go some way to helping your situation.
I ended up with a £100 fine £40 costs and 4pts

Good luck,

Scott

sulli

To get a solicitor or not - that is the question.

I'm gonna use my free consultation anyway, and take it from there - all the helpful advice here helps me go in forewarned.

I do use my car for my job, Housing Officer, so may look at letter from employers - but I cant see me getting banned. I just dont want to have careless on my record.

Cheers for all help.

RB5SCOTT

Sulli, do you mind telling me how long ago that you got caught because i was stopped by the boys in blue at 102mph about 3 months ago and have heard nothing. Here's hoping aye

thanks
Scott

sulli

Sorry mate, but it was 5 1/2 months ago - I think they have 6 months - I was 2 weeks away from getting away with it - trust the Police to give me an unwanted Xmas present

Z75

sulli is right. It's not called the long arm of the law for nothing.

as for the original question - if pleading guilty do it by post and let them decide. Don't waste your time on seeing these muppets. They won't pay any attention to you.

obviously if you fight the case you have to go.

chiark

Sulli,

I'd do one of two things: either bite the bullet,plead guilty by post and have done with it, or TAKE LEGAL ADVICE and go to court.

Bit of explanation:

I know the Coventry ring-road, as I lived there for 16 years, and I can see you getting a swine of a magistrate (or whatever) who knows the road and has been cut up by people doing 60mph and exiting without indicating. !!!Note in no way am I saying that this is what you were doing!!! but their previous experiences may very well go against you from the prosecution notes against you.

After all, I don't know anyone who hasn't at one time or another been cut up on that ringroad

Given all this, I'd go for either guilty, or take good legal advice of the kind you pay for.

Hope this helps somewhat. Good luck.

Nick.

medders

Just to add to what Scottdg said. Plea by post initially, but if they are going to ban you you will have to appear (not a nice experience).

bad luck

medders

sulli

Just been to Soilicitors for initial advice (free) - He's looking into the 'without due care..' bit and is getting back to me, but has advised either to plead not guilty to both by post, the court date is then adjourned, then at the court date, plead guilty to the speeding if they drop the careless - he said this tactic may work.
Or just plead guilty to the speeding by post and not guilty to the due care, with an accompanying letter of mitigation , and hope they drop it.
Looks like he'll charge me approx. £100 if I instruct him to write a letter of defence to be used by the duty solicitor if I go to court.
Its all very confusing - bit worried about his tactical plan, as it could backfire.
He also said there was a chance I could be banned !! I can't believe that.