jeremy

Dear Scoobyneters,

I thought I should share this with you. I was recently the main subject of evo magazines 10 favorite stories article- in the January issue I believe. John Barker referred to me as "Jerry". Apparently they felt I was their 2nd favorite story of all time! Not sure if that's because they thought I was an amusing story to them or that I was an intelligent person who added positively to their experience- indeed it sure seemed to read more like some sort of amusement to me.

I have been speaking with John Barker for close to 20 years. During this time and especially during evo's formative years I interacted with John and Richard quite a bit and quite often offered up many ideas as well as commented upon many of their ideas. Up until
this point we had pretty cordial interactions- on my trip to visit with him many years ago he even suggested to me that I think about working for evo; and further I think he's as good a road tester as there is.

Anyway their article on me was slightly positive but mostly negative- not very fair/even, and I just wanted to include some sample information from my side- indeed I'm so glad to have a place like Scoobynet where non media elites can have their voice heard as well! I've enjoyed interacting with many interesting and thought provoking people on Scoobynet now for over 9 years. Before the internet, media like evo could have written anything they wanted with people like me having no way to publicly reply!

Among the many things that John Barker wrote about me one of the more negative bits was that the "great" rally driver Walter Rohrl told them about me, "Gee that man can talk". What evo failed to print was that I've been talking on a cordial basis with Mr. Rohrl since 1993 well before anyone at evo
ever any contact with the man what-so-ever. Actually that is one of the reasons I spoke so much; I was trying like heck to introduce Walter to the staff at evo and further to actually
come to the UK in order to kick-off Evo's first mega test in early 99. I was trying to help them establish their magazine and make the greatest road
test they possibly could. Everyone loved the idea. Indeed I managed to get Walter to agree to fly over to the UK and help them any way he could with the test. For some reason- maybe evo did not want to help with his expenses- Walter never came to the UK for the test. Of course as this information was never published in evo, I thought some would be interested to see the e-mails both John Barker and Richard Meaden wrote to me during that time...

The moral of the story I think is: please don't believe everything you read in the papers, often there is more to the story than
Journalists would like you to perceive. I really wish that evo had not written such a negative story about a well meaning person. Please see the e-mail's below....

----- Original Message -----
From: jeremy lieberman
To: jeremy lieberman
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 6:52 PM
Subject: evo articles


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Barker" <JohnB@evo.co.uk>
To: "'jeremy lieberman'" <jlieberman@mindspring.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 1999 7:01 AM
Subject: RE: John Barker


> Jerry
>
> You're fit as a fiddle I hope. Reference the mega-test, the Skyline
> doesn't arrive until the 25th, which means it's too late for the March
> issue. What we've decided to do is hold off until the first week in
> March. Can you let Walter know we're still dead keen for him to be there
> and I apologise if we've inconvenienced him and you in any way. I'm
> looking forward to meeting you both, as is Russell Bulgin.
>
> By the way, that website was indeed very interesting. I'm surprised the
> pic hasn't appeared elsewhere - it'll be on our news pages next month
> for sure...
>
> All the very best, old bean
>
> JB
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Barker" <JohnB@evo.co.uk>
To: "'jeremy lieberman'" <jlieberman@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 6:32 AM
Subject: RE: John Barker


> Jerry
>
> You may scream when you hear this suggestion: I wonder if Walter could
> drive over to the UK in an Audi TT. Yes, I think it would be more
> appropriate than the Quattro. Sorry. By the way, I got a call from the
> main man at AM cars and he's happy to lend us anything
> but he's hot to trot on getting Harry's Quattro in much better order for
> not much dosh and a bit of publicity. Result!
>
> I'll speak to you soon.
>
> John



----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Meaden" <RichardM@evo.co.uk>
To: <jlieberman@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 12:02 PM
Subject: evo all-wheel drive test


> Jerry,
>
> Please sit down and pour yourself a drink. Now, are you ready for this.
> The evo True Grip all-wheel drive extravaganza is go!
>
> You are, of course, cordially invited to attend this landmark event,
> which is happening during the week beginning Monday July 19th. However,
> there is one condition to your attendance, and that is that you don't
> give us any **** about the cars we've picked. OK?
>
> There will be a circuit element (hopefully at Jonathan Palmer's new
> Bedford Autodrome), as well as on-road driving, and Dr Barker has
> secured the use of Datron's latest 2D equipment which will tell us
> corner speed, lat g, lap times, acceleration and braking g plus much
> more stuff. The route will head north towards Northumberland, Cumbria
> and the infamous Keilder Forest.
>
> The cars are as follows
>
> Nissan Skyline GT-R R34
> Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 6 + Evo 6 RS Sprint (to compare Evo with and
> without Active Yaw Control)
> Audi S3 or 225 bhp TT
> Audi Quattro Sport
> Subaru Impreza RB5 Prodrive edition or STi V
> Subaru Impreza 22B
> Porsche 911 Carrera 4
>
> We will contact Walter on Monday.
>
> Call me on Monday at the office if you're about.
>
> All the best,
>
> Dr Meaden

Greetings Jerry,

Not sure whether JB has mailed you with the latest, so thought I should
update you. Basically we've phoned every Goddam grey importer in the UK
and it would appear that Co-Ord Sport are way ahead of the game on R34
Skyline.

The one snag is it doesn't get to our Customs guys until March 15th.
Lord Harry has put some pressure on John Kirchem at Co-Ord, so he's
pre-paid for the SVA test to try and hurry things along. Consequently
we're planning the feature to happen Thurs 18th/Fri 19th/Sat 20th March.
This is right on our deadline, but worth the risk.

I'm in the process of planning the route, and it's looking good. We'll
start close to Hadrian's Wall just south of the Scottish Border and then
head into the Highlands. Not the original Welsh deal I know, but the
roads are equally challenging, the weather equally mixed and the scenery
equally awesome. Hopefully Walter will approve.

For your info the list of contenders is as follows:

Nissan Skyline GT-R
Mitsubishi Evo VI
Subaru Impreza 22B Type UK
Porsche 911 C4
Audi S3 (Walter's motor)
Audi Quattro 20v

Talking of Walter, is the guy going to require a stack of cash for his
time and trouble? I don't want to sound cheap, but evo hasn't got
Porsche-style budgets, and the feature isn't going to be cheap as it is.
I would imagine Lord Harry might be able to spare a few English Pounds
for petrol money if Herr Röhrl brings the S3 with him, likewise we
should be able to stretch to a plane ticket if he's just bringing
himself. A problem would only arise if he wanted serious cash for his
time. I'd like to think he'd do it for the love, but I thought I should
raise the issue before we get an invoice with lots of zeros on the end
of it. As you know the guy pretty well we were kinda hoping you could
mention the grubby subject of money.

Hope you're well. E-mail us back when you've spoken with The Man.

Richard

stevey

iTrader: (2)

not sure what this posts actualy about

[MikeyB]

Me either...

simo

wtf?

slackbrown

I think Walter Rohrl was right....

[MikeyB]

Sorry Jeremy, are we missing something...

Flaps

iTrader: (1)

Someone's been messed about by someone else over something and wanted to say something about something that had been said by someone that was wrong?

PCM

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Seems Evo magazine have been guilty of telling porkies and messing people about.

jeremy

They published a negative article about
me in this months evo and I just wanted to show another side of it.
JL

Damocell

iTrader: (1)

Jeremy,

I read the article and I must admit, even though I don't know you my impression of you wasn't great.

Maybe I thought that Evo was above all this but it seems most Journalists will talk a story up just for the hell of it.

Damo

jeremy

"Jeremy,

I read the article and I must admit, even though I don't know you my impression of you wasn't great.

Maybe I thought that Evo was above all this but it seems most Journalists will talk a story up just for the hell of it.

Damo"

Damo,
Your right most people who will read that article will gain
a pretty bad impression of me. I never did anything to desevre such
a slam. All I can say is that
they tried as you wrote to "talk me up" to make
it the article they wanted it to be. I've had so many productive interactions
(as in two-way) with them over the years and they failed to indicate any of them in the article.

Indeed when they felt they needed me, they had no trouble asking for my help. J

MrRA

So how is your relationship with those at Evo mag now??

Have you been in contact with them regarding the publication and why they feel to be so negative about you when it seems you have had a reasonably good history with them.

7 Foot

I've read the article.

FWIW I would never have given it a second thought until I read this. I understand you feeling aggrieved but this sems to be pretty clunky way of defending yourself. I think you may be pouring petrol on a fire that had almost gone out.

Did they actually mention you by name in the article or just as 'Jerry'?

andythejock01wrx

Jeremy, I think you need to give a bit more background about what the Evo article said, to put things in context for your fellow scoobynetters.

Adidas

Those e-mails are dated July 1999,

Does this experience go back to then??

Matteeboy

I had a letter published when I had the R32 about how they wrote nothing but glowing reports about it then did a very negative "end of term" test.

It seems the car has simply become "old news" (I had several email conversations with the journo, now gone) and they were bored with it!!

jeremy

MrRA,
"So how is your relationship with those at Evo mag now??

Have you been in contact with them regarding the publication and why they feel to be so negative about you when it seems you have had a reasonably good history with them."

John e-mailed last year in response to an idea I had for them for a test- said he was happy to hear from me and wished me well.

I would think that before you publicly slam someone in an international magazine
you would maybe ask permission to publish such a story.

Addidas,
"Those e-mails are dated July 1999,

Does this experience go back to then??"

It goes back all the way to 88'

7-foot,

"FWIW I would never have given it a second thought until I read this. I understand you feeling aggrieved but this sems to be pretty clunky way of defending yourself. I think you may be pouring petrol on a fire that had almost gone out.

Did they actually mention you by name in the article or just as 'Jerry'?"

Yes they mentioned my full name. I think Scoobynet is a super cool place full
of real people, I couldn't think of a better place to express my side of the
story. Scoobynet takes all views. The evo site's got no one on it so
would be like talking into the wind. J

7 Foot

I've re-read the article and I have to say you are making yourself look a complete **** now Mr Jeremy Lieberman.

You are affectionately portrayed as a persistent American enthusiast. If you can't take the article in good humour then that's a shame and ultimately your problem.

If anyone's interested, it's on page 142 and is only a few paragraphs long.

andythejock01wrx

Did you explicitly tell them how you felt Jerry ?

jeremy

7-Foot;
I've re-read the article and I have to say you are making yourself look a complete **** now Mr Jeremy Lieberman.

You are affectionately portrayed as a persistent American enthusiast. If you can't take the article in good humour then that's a shame and ultimately your problem."

I'm portrayed as a stalker and with a persistant big mouth. Where's the positive in that? How about a commnet about something positive I did for them? Like actually introduce them to Rohrl? Apparently not. JL

7 Foot

Well the article reads to me as if they are pulling your leg. JB even mentions that once you read it you'll probably be on the phone to him.

It's really not damning, if anything it's male banter. Maybe its English/British male banter and that is the problem.

Hakon

Wouldn't worry about it, EVO has got ahead of itself as of late. They are all a bit familiar and 'in' jokey... possibly ego orientated. I say, stick to the original premise.

abc

Jeremy,

I sympathise with the way you must be smarting from what Evo wrote and understand that you feel p****d off with the piece. (I also think you are entitled to feel a bit p'd off with how your posts have been treated on here, but that's a different matter.)

Here's a few thoughts: 1) Evo likes to be super-cool and in that respect it's pretty typically British; American-style enthusiasm is very refreshing but it doesn't quite fit the public image of Evo. 2) Re Rohrl -- it'd be very uncool of Evo to have to acknowledge that they themselves didn't know him (especially in the early days of the mag) and had had to depend on someone else to make the introduction. So again, I think it's about image.

My suggestion, for what it's worth is just to let the feeling of being stung pass and maybe to drop a note to Evo explaining how you feel and then, perhaps, to get this thread deleted.

HTH,

Andrew

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I Agree, I've not seen the piece in question, but I don't really need to. The point is that obviously you have taken exception to something they have written and should, first and foremost, bring it up with them. You may find, particularly in view of your long association with JB and co, that they will readily apologise (not all journalists are oblivious to the feedback from those they wrtie about). As for Walter Rohl, supreme driver though I understand him to be, never forget....


He is German!

Chin up mate!

Ns04

Thevoicewithin

If any of you reading this had read the Article in Evo you would know why the fella is a little f@cked off.

From my understanding they made him out to be a bit of a crank. Thats what I thought when I read it anyway.

For him to come on here now and express his feelings, well I don`t blame him TBH.

Bollocks to them thats what I say Jezza and when you see any of those pesky Journo`s give them a dig

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Maybe,

BUT surely he should be going to them first: they may well be mortified at any distress caused by something they've written given that the tone of previous E-mails between him and the staff there has been friendly.

If he articulates how he feels to them, he will get his side across to the majority of the EVO readership who would have been the only ones exposed to the comments anyway! Posts here only direct people who might not have otherswise looked at the mag to the comments and reach only a very small proportion of EVO regulars!

To the poster:

Write to them and say you're hurt at the way you've been portrayed, explain why and say you would like a small apology printed!

You might be surprised at the response.

Ns04

EddScott

Sorry I thought all SNetters read Max Power and Fast Car magazine.

EVO is too high brow for us great unwashed anyway.


Actually, I offered an EVO magazine to the presenters of Top Gear whilst at the filming. JC pushed off in a noble before anyone could get a pen in his hand. RH was more than happy although the pic I took of him was too close and almost blinded the guy and JM took one look at the magazine offered to him and said

"Good god man, EVO magazine??!!"

Made me chuckle anyway. Stopped buying EVO when it seemed to go from talking about everyday cars most of might be able to own to supercars only the very rich/lucky will own.

I buy Radio Race Car International now. Least I can afford all the cars reviewed in there - well nearly.

Mike Murphy

jeremy, this month's was the first EVO I have ever bought and I did read the article you were mentioned in and it wasn't very flattering, as said previously, it didn't mention you in a good light. Nice to know the full background, it takes 2 to tango!!!

jeremy

SOrry I didn't make it clear I did express my disatisfaction to evo.

I've read every issue and have never read a published letter that was overly critical of anything they have done.

While I agree with many on here that Evo have gone down hill over that last few years- I certainly wish they would do more in depth testing of cars less than 100k, focusing on the nuances of how each differ in handling. For example they once compared the Boxster and the 911 and said the 911 had more predicable handling, now why not compare the Cayman with the 911- not on a super-test or car of the year but simply a twin test.

The bottom line is they have no real competition, no other publication even bothers to write multiple page stories. They are alone in this segment and are now super confident in their position. They own the performance car test at this point- until someone else enters the field. JL