ibz2004

My brother borrowed the Vectra lastnite and he told me he got flashed by cameras setup for roadworks on A38 birm/sutton coldfield (apparantly they were going 60mph in a 40 zone at 3am).

Inevitably i will get the letter becos car is registered in my name. Thing is it was my brother's friend's friend who was driving it and hes bein a w***er and not giving us his full details. What do i tell the cops? that i dont know who was driving it and to ask for photographic evidence? (It was two flashes from behind)?

Or do i just ignore the letters? I have two friends who chose to ignore their letters and they never recieved any follow-up letter/complaint and that was just over 2yrs ago.

Bugatti

Ignoring it could and probably will make it worse. You are one very trusting person to let your brother's friend's friend drive your car.

Your best bet is to provide your brothers details as it was him who you lent the car to, and when he gets the notice he will have to either take the rap for it or provide his mate's mate's details.(Or your brother can provides his mate's details who can then provide his mate's details who was driving )

Or you can cut all that crap out and make sure your brother gets the drivers details and you can fill the form in correctly.

In future it may be an idea to get a driver to sign when he takes charge of your car and when you get it back if you're going to lend your wheels out.


Naz.(Hoping the above makes sense cos it doesn't to me)
PS. I hope your brother's friend's friend was insured to drive your car.

wrx_yank

hopefully it doesent have film in it.... if it does tell em what happened.... it cant hurt

911

Agree with both the above.
People MUST take responsibility!

The guy driving must be responsible.
If he was driving without your permission he has effectivly stolen the car.
If he has done this but is insured to drive another car, then his insurance is invalid.

If he is un-insured then no wonder he is reluctant to give details!

Theft
No insurance
Speeding

Not good.
Maybe the camera is empty but I doubt it. Brum needs all the £££ it can get.
The A38 is notorious to any local.

I'm afraid that the police may take a dim view of you allowing it, so to ease that pain, tell the simple truth and all is simple from then on, and he won't 'borrow' your car again.

ibz2004

well iv learnt my lesson about letting folk borrow it. Will respond to the letter and tell them the truth. I cant prove i wasnt driving it though.

ive searched threads and read that people respond to the letter but do not sign it. Is this still a valid approach? My brother will pay the fine but it sounds like ill be getting the damn points.

TDT

When you say he wont supply you with his full details what do you mean?

Did the bloke have your permission to be driving the vehicle on a road?

Alan MaC

I have been through all this. Asked for photo to identify the driver ( I really wasn't driving).

It could have been between 3 people, photo was crap and, Plod acknowledged it.

After letters back & forth, I got done for not being able to identify the Driver. 3 points £60 and £75 court costs.

Try this Site, they are very clued up & Lawyers offer free advice on the Site as they think the Speed Camera thing has gone too far.

PePiPoo: Helping the motorist to get justice


Good Luck


Alan MaC

donnas roo

Sorry, but i would no-way take the rap for any of this, it wasn't your fault.
Your brother is to blame, so he should know the address of his mate and hand that in to the police, if your brother thinks anything about you, sounds to me like he isn't insured for the car, but that is his tuff luck not yours you were just doing the brother a good turn.

Good luck!
Donna x

GaryCat

Lawyers offer free advice? Are you mad? That site is populated by wannabe lawyers and magistrates and the advice I was given was of no use at all. If you follow pepipoos advice you will just end up in court with a bigger fine and more points.

Try 5ive-o as that site has real traffic officers, real magistrates and can offer real advice.

TDT

Did you get stuck on after following the advice of the "very clued up lawyers" on this site?

Alan MaC

No, took the advice of a Plod from a different Force to the one that sent me the paperwork who thought they would drop it as, the picture of the screen was blank.

I went to this Police Station to try to help identify the driver on their screen. You should have seen the Office, there must have been 20+ people at screens banging out paperwork @ £60 a time.

AS I said the picture was useless, that is why I got done for not knowing who was driving the car on the day , NOT FOR SPEEDING.

The site I sent in good faith, to try to point someone in the pooh in the right direction, actually have said that there are Lawyers that respond to some posts on the Site.

These are I beleive, just people trying to help out others as I am doing my best.

I will have a look at that Site that is offering advice from ex Traffic Cops.

The orginal thread sender is getting a lot of help today.

Good luck to him.

Alan MaC

J_sca001

Hi, the first thing to do is wait the two weeks that the Police have to serve the (NIP) Notice Of Impending Prosecution. Which will be 14 days from midnight of the day of the offence. If they fail to do this then the case would be dropped at court.
If you are unfortunate to get the NIP then provide the Police with the details of the person who borrowed the car, i.e your brother. It then becomes his responsibilty to provide the Police with the details of the driver at the time of the offence, not yours. Perhaps your brother was driving? . If you gave your brother verbal permission to drive the car, but not anyone else, would you have given him permission to drive if you knew he was going to let his mate drive If the answer is no, then you could state that the authorisation was therefore obtained by deception. Therefore you could make a complaint of TWOC, taking a vehicle without owners consent. It sounds harsh, but this threat may get your brother to own up about who was driving. I have to tell you though that the CPS, Crown Prosecution Service may not "run" with it. Going back to your brother. Give the Police your brothers details, what should happen is a statement would be obtained from you to this effect. All the work should then be done by the Police by either prosecuting your brother or your brothers so called mate!
If the investigation and summons is not served on the driver within 6 months it will then be called, Timed Out. Which means the prosecution will be dropped.
The above advice is fact, but you have to take lots of things into account, CPS, Lazy Copper talking you out of making a complaint against your brother. Lazy copper trying to tell you, you may be committing an offence of, "Use, Cause, or Permt" Which in a nutshell means you allowed, caused or permitted the use of your car so you are as much to blame in law. If what you say is true you haven't so don't buckle under the pressure. .
The traffic law is a mine field as with criminal law, more grey areas than on a Traffic Cops head!!
Hope this helps.
Jamie.

ibz2004

Can they really do that? if anything the bloody police should be prosecuted for not identifying the driver. We dont know the drivers full details...hes one of 5 uni students (who were in the car) living at a term address. Doesnt surprise me, i didnt know all the full details of some of my uni mates back in the day lol

So the moral is to give in and pay up if i dont want addiitional court costs. Is it similar to parking ticket whereby they half the amount providing you pay it immediately? Doesnt speeding guarantee me getting 3points on my license?

ibz2004

cheers Jamie. Just to point out it was my Brother's friend's friend. Hes the type of guy that is known by his nickname. They were off to some club i guess.
I dont really want to hand over the blame on my bro cos id feel just as bad if he were to get the points. His intentions were good natured. I guess its easy to say in hindsight that id have preferred if it was just him driving.

WRX TWIN TURBO

If i am correct and im sure i am, 2 people cant be done for the same offence so just say that "On the night in question your brother and others all at one time drove your car so it could be one of a few guilty" and ask to see the photo's then you tell them you cant make out who was driving and it then becomes there job to prove who was driving. Hope this helps.

J_sca001

You are wrong. If two people are involved in an accident and both hae been drinking and are over the prescribed limit, both will get arrested and interviewed. If they both deny it during interview, then as a general rule both will be charged by the Police and taken to Court. However, the result could not be predicted

If you tell the Police anyone of the group had permission to drive your care you could end up being prosecuted for the Use, Cause, or Permit offences as it is your responsibilty to ensure all parties have the required documents to drive the car legally. As a result all you could or would be presecuted for is the original offence which carries the sentence, i.e 3 points and £60.00 or a higher fine if you go to court.
Do not under any circumstances have a ploy to get out of the situation by telling any lies. Especially as you are not guilty!!!! . You will then be looked at for Perverting the Course Of Justice which carries a sentence of LIFE IMPRISONMENT!!! and is taken very seriouly by the court, which will be a Crown Court!!!
Jamie

Silver Scooby Sport

iTrader: (15)

Ibz... Hi bud it's been a while

It may be registered to you but if the car was speeding that is not your responsability if you were not there... your brother needs to take responsabilty for this, nothing for you to feel guilty about at all in my opinion.
If you took the points that would be completely illegal, stand back for a second read all above you have had a serving officers view on it as well.
This is a situation where the correct actions must be taken you know that I'm sure.

Get your brother to ask for a picture if it does land on the doormat... then it's up to the people in the car to take it further and not you.

Simon.

J_sca001

Just another point to think about.
You mentioned you taking the points and your brother paying the £60 fine. This would still be perverting the course of justice, with the same penalties.
Your loyalty to your brother is misfounded, He is the one putting you through all the stress and worry.
Jamie.

Dracoro

C'Mon, let's not scaremonger. you will NOT get LIFE imprisonment. You MIGHT get it if you were perverting the course of justice in a serious murder/terroism case but NOT for a speeding case. However, the punishment will be worse than you'd get for speeding.

However you do it, you need to identify the driver, you have witnesses to say he was driving.

SPIDERWRX

HI, i dont think there is any film in that one on the A38. i got flash about a month ago by it, doing about 80mph+ in my van, trying to do the lorry scank.(lorry covers camera, you dont slow down) :-) so it anit got film in or i time it to perfection :-)

J_sca001

I agree you have to put things into perspective, but serious non the less.
As for which cameras have film in, this is usually done on a rotational basis due to the cost of each camera. Or they will be placed in areas where "blackspots" are evidenced. So don't take any risks as one week it may be installed the next it may have been moved to another site.
Jamie.

Alan MaC

Wouldn't it be great if the Authorities put as much effort & resources into things that matter to the public as they do, into doing a " Mountie" ( always getting their man) on speeders?

As in Drug Dealers, Hoodies on Street Corners, Muggings, Identity Theft, Burglars, llegal Immagrants driving unisured motors, East European Lorry Drivers driving dangerously, just for starters?

They are relentless and why not, in the interests of balance, do the same on some of the above.

The serving Police Officer who has put his views accross this Afternoon, is a breath of fresh air. He is doing what the authorities are telling him ( they set the rules) however, I do feel that at some point, the Motorist/Joe Public will say enough is enough and, do a Petrol Type Protest against it all.

As I'm sure the Serving Police Officer will admit, the Police operate by the consent of the Public ( CC of Essex said that this year) and without that, what have we got??

Underneath this Speeding Thread, there is a lot of disquiet from the oridnary person in the Street, or is there?

Alan MaC