***Jonesy***

Firstly sorry in advance for the long winded post. But I really would appreciate anyone’s opinions.

Right. In a couple of month I will be looking to buy either an Impreza or a Celica GT4. I will have 6-6.5k to spend on one, so for that price range I think I will be looking at the ST205 GT4 (1994-1996) or a STi v2 or v3 Subaru (1995-1998). I can’t really decide which one to go for so I’ve been comparing the pros and cons of them and would appreciate your help and advice. So far I must admit the gt4 is slightly ahead in my own head but what would you guys do?

Here’s what I’m thinking:

In favour of GT4:

Less common than scoobs. There’s loads of Subaru’s kicking around now, unless it’s something really nice people don’t tend to flicker an eye lid. How many scoobies have you seen in the last 4 weeks? How many GT4’s have you seen in that time?

Insurance. Scoob for me to insure is 2k. GT4 is 800 quid.

Looks. They just seem to look better to me.

Interiors. Don’t like Scooby interiors as standard. GT4 is a nicer place to sit.

I’ve had a Celica in the past, just a non turbo one, but I have a soft spot in my heart for Celica’s

Price.You can get almost any gt4 for 6.5k. You can get a real good one for 5k, leaving me some spare which would probably go on modifications.

In general they seem to be better looked after than scoobs. They seem to be mostly owned by more mature blokes and stay standard and well serviced etc (in general, not every case of course). a 1994/1995 gt4 will almost always be better than a 1994/1995 scoob. (I wouldn’t buy a Scooby that old really)

In favour of Scooby:

More powerful. GT4 puts out 255bhp. Scoob puts out 275bhp for v2 sti and 300 bhp for v3 sti. (but is it worth paying an extra 1200 quid insurance for that……..?

Sound. They make a great noise!

Easier to tune and maintain since there’s more of them around ??? So I’ve been told anyways??

Hmmm….

Thanks. Jonesy


I know im on a scoob site so obviuosly you guys will be in favour for the scoob, but honest replys would be great. Ive posted the same post on a gt4 owners club webiste so hopefully I should get some good advice from both of you.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Practicality? The Scoob has four doors and a boot the Celica doesn't.

***Jonesy***

Yes sorry I missed that off my list. I had considerd that as a plus point for the scoob. I like 4 doors

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

Seems to me uve already talked urself into buying a GT4.....i like the GT4 its a nice car but IMO but its no match for a scoob and the reason theres so many on the road speaks for itself.....at the end of the day your the one who has to drive,maintain and look at the thing everyday so buy whats right for you fella..

***Jonesy***

The GT4 was only made for 3 years or so remember, I think thats why there arnt many of them around.

I havnt talked myself intoi either yet mate....just looking at the pros and cons

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

GT4 = 1500KG
STI = 1250KG

Try shopping around for insurance bud. When I was first looking at Jap cars 3 years ago, there wasn't any difference in the premium for a GT4 or Impreza.

***Jonesy***

Really? if I could get the insurance within a couple of hundred quid of the gt4 I would take the sti anyday

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

What companys have you tried?
How many year ncb have you got and have you ever driven a 'performance car'?
Gary at Keith Micheals is the only guy I ever bother dealing with for insurance these days. No one else can match his quotes!

***Jonesy***

Elephant are the lowest I have found on the net. I only have 1 years NCB and 6 points (driving with no insurance......it was a test drive when I bought a car.....how unlucky!)

I have owned a non turbo celica. old bmw e30 325i sport. a bmw e39 525. a bmw e39 530. an mr2 turbo.......and a fiat tippo :P

Lydia72

Have had both (Celica was the Carlos Sainz edition) and while it was a nice car the Subaru is by far my favourite - no contest - and as already mentioned is far more practical.

***Jonesy***

interesting post off a guy from the gt4oc about this subject.....


"Hi Jonesy,

You also forgot that the Celica is also far more reliable.

My last 4 cars from oldest to newest:
95 WRX saloon, 96 WRX estate, 98 galant VR4 and now the 95 Celica GT4
The WRX's sound so much better, I honestly believe they also handle a lot better and the kick from the turbo is great.
But.....the gearbox isn't great and the boxer engine suffers from piston slap which eventually means getting the engine rebuilt. I work in a jap import garage and 4 out of the last 6 WRX's we brought in needed engine jobs, and these were cars with 50 to 70k and looked after.
The availability of tuning parts for the Subaru is excellent but the Celica isn't exactly lacking either.
When I first drove my GT4 I thought it was slow. I got it from the garage I work for and bought it because it was extremely clean. The delivery from the turbo is not like the WRX or the EVO which comes in with a bang, but is very smooth. Unlike the EVO and WRX the boost stays right to the redline whereas with the other two the boost drops off about 1000 revs from the red.
Then... I had to deliver an EVO 5 down the country and myself and my coleague were not hanging around on the drive. Afterwards he told me he couldn't catch me when we were passing cars out and there was nothing between the two cars. Not bad for a car that is 30bhp down and about 140kg heavier.
Basically on paper the Celica shouldn't be as quick but it is, regardless of what Scooby and EVO owners say.
It is rarer, it is definately better looking and its more reliable.
The GT4 gets my vote "


Is it true about reliability he refers to?

Topbombingkid

I have a uk scooby classic and my friend has just bought a uk GT4 st205 on a M plate. i test drove it for him to make sure all was ok and i have to admit its much nicer to drive and alot smoother where as the scoob feels like it just wants to go all the time and i cant really drive it steady whereas the gt4 will just plod along nice and quite then go when u want it to. Have to admit i prefer the celica but feel the impreza has better handling and feels more stuck to the road than the celica.

hades

v3 STi like all subsequent STi's up to 6 was officially rated at 280PS = 276bhp. Both cars would probably put out a little less on UK fuel unless re-mapped for it. To get 300bhp on an STi3 you'd need some minor modifications.

RUDDY

yeah but a 185 gt4 is ****e compared to an ST205! i had an st205 for 3 years!
they are awsome cars to be honest! 255 bhp as standard and all you need is an exhaust and a boost controller! wind the boost up to 1.1 bar (completely safe) and you have 290 bhp if your lucky! also an st205 is lighter than a 1500 kgs st185! my gtfour was quite well specd up! it had coil overs and it handles absoloutly great! the drive is split to exactly 50/50 so you get some nice powerslide in the snow!
now i will say this! my 2000 impreza might not be as quick but it is 10 times better to drive! the gt four got very uncomfy to drive after an hour or so and i just feel the impreza is much more driver freindly! plus theres a little boot in the four and the impreza is massive!!
another downer on the four is that you will not get anybody over 4ft to comfortably sit in the back seats! they are a nightmare!
like you say 6 k will get you a mint gt four but they may aswell be 2 seaters lol! MPG is the same in std form as my 2000!
plus you get a sexy MOMO steering wheel with the impreza where the gtfour has some huge crap toyota thing! lol!
if i could swap my impreza back for my four i wouldnt! gbut then after 3 years one gets bourd and wishes a change anyway i supose!

RUDDY

well i fried my engine in my st205 so reliability isnt perfect! and i have to say that it is complete bull **** about the EVO and the Four! at 300 bhp my car was just about on par with my good freinds standard white EVO 5!
in std form it was slower for sure!
the superstrut system on the st205 means the suspension wears out at about 60 thousand miles and means 800 quid bill so get one with the figure of 8's and lower arms recently changed!
gtfour gearbox can take 450 bhp through it though
it too am a member on the gt4OC, well my subscription has just run out!
and most of them lot dont like impreza's!

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

Touch wood.....ive never had any problems with my scoob in the year ive owned it its a 95WRX and its far from standard,i drive it hard and never drive it like miss daisy...never misses a beat,always starts no rattels,knocking,smoke,crunching gears(unless the mrs is driving) or unwanted noises...the car was standard when i bought it running 260ps it was on the rollers 2 weeks ago where it made 313.3bhp and to achieve that figure has cost me £500.
As for the GT4 i prefer the ST185 either carlos sainz or RC model...a classic shape and the model that ended the Deltas reign,a complete rally car...

RUDDY

ive got a 185 in white by the way if anyone wants it! blown head gasket wich is a major fault with st185's! ive got to get rid of it sooner or later!
luckily the st205 comes with steel headgasket so they never blow!
also got a delta integrale 16valve in black! this too needs a new home!

Lydia72

On our Celica we had two head gaskets go in under eighteen months! car was totally standard, was maintained by the local Toyota dealer, well looked after never abused etc etc (was so peed off about it I rang Toyota UK and they agreed to clear our bill with the dealer so 'only' had to pay for one H.G).
As regard to looks, IMO that is always down to personal choice, Fiat Multipla owners probably think they look the business LOL, I don't look twice at Celicas anymore but a nice Impreza always turns my head.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Same here!
You always here them, before you seem them though!

R34_GT-t

I own a Gen 5 celica. Im after an ST205 in a couple of months, if I don't get my Skyline back on the road first.

I've been in a 350BHP ST205 before, and it could easily match the performance of some pretty mildly tuned GTR's. Think the very same car also ran against an R33 GTR down the pod and beat it if I remember.

As for comparing it against an impreza, I have no idea. Have't owned a 205.

stuart148

iTrader: (12)

jayallan,,,how did you get it to that bhp for £500 ????


stu

***Jonesy***

To be honest guys, theres not many good comments coming from the gt4 owners, and even quite a few of you guys are putting good words in for gt4's.

Although I like scoobs.....I just cant find many plus points over a gt4....even asking you, the owners. The sound, yes. The 4 doors and a boot, yes. But not much else.

I'll keep thinking about it, but Im defo thinking gt4 at the moment.

Cheers for your input guys

Jonesy

StudentScooby

always fancied a gt4 but they are just too dam ugly!

mmorg3053

Hi Elliot, will that be me you are talking about? I came your house that time and you showed me your liner. I had 332bhp and 318lb/ft torque @1.2bar on a standard engine and turbo. Had the usual exhaust/induction, apexi power fc. The GTR had 400bhp.
GT4 vs Skyline - Google Video

Mike Morgan
Leigh

Maz

iTrader: (34)

The Impreza feels 'special' to drive. The car feels alive and you feel connected to the car in a way few cars can replicate. I can't comment on the GT4 as I haven't driven one but would be very surprised if it matched the Scooby for all round ability and enjoyment. Factor in the added practicality and the Impreza is a further leap ahead. Rear diffs can fail on Gt4s .

mmorg3053

No, like the superstrut suspension, the rear diff mount can fail after 60-80k miles. Its £60 to replace

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Is it not the case that they can be quite sensitive to differences in tyre tread depth at higher mileages?

mmorg3053

The tyres tend to wear at the same rate so thats not a problem. Obviously you dont want to put different size wheels/tyres on as that will be asking for trouble on any 50/50 split 4wd system because of the difference in rotation size.

But the diffs/g'box are strong as hell.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

You wouldn't that's true. Makes me wonder why Subaru supply you with a spacesaver tyre for a spare the penny pinching tw@ts!

craigdmcd

iTrader: (2)

I have imported a 1994 GT4 WRC Ltd Edition, with the boost upped, a sports exhaust, and an air filter, and sold it a few years ago when our daughter came along (and then realised I didn't have to). The car was fantastic. Did I replace things - Yes, a clutch and a Turbo, and the arms were wearing when I sold it. I class these as running costs. I've had many Subaru's before, during and after owning the Celica, but have probably enjoyed owning it the most. A Subaru can be driven very fast by average drivers, but if you are an above average driver, the Celica is a more rewarding car to push to it's limits.
Just my thoughts.