SHOCK HORROR!!!!! CK1 Gets 'Prodrived'!!!!
04 November 2000, 12:56 AM
#1
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Yes, it's true.
In the past I have been fairly vocal about the PPP, or at least the lack of 'vfm' I thought it offered. £2,000 for an ecu, a back box and some hoses? Pah! No way! For the same money you could get a full exhaust system AND a MOTEC. Surely the ultimate?
Given the choice, if I had the cash, I would probably go for the MOTEC.
However, I was fortunate enough to come across someone that was selling a PPP ecu for a fraction of the new cost (thanx Ian
). My intention was to try it for a while, realise that it really didn't make that much of a difference, sell it for a bit more than I paid and buy a Unichip, which I'd been looking forward to for ages.
What this circuit board has done to my car though is nothing short of a miracle! I had never driven a PPP'd car before, and whilst I was impressed by the supposed gains on paper, especially in low-end torque, I never realised what a difference that would make to the cars driveability. I have always yearned for more torque, and the Unichip was the planned method of obtaining this as I had heard no bad reports about it. If that performs as well as what I have now, I'll be at Powerstation first thing Monday!
What I'm going to do is live with the PPP a while longer though. There is no doubt that on the road the difference is awesome. The car has hardly any lag, the pick-up from low revs is stunning, fifth gear has become fourth, and the list goes on.....
What has surprised and confused me is that all these gains have been obtained with hardly any increase in boost pressure. Before it was fitted, my car would show peak pressure of around 15psi. On the same flat piece of road, flooring the car in fourth only shows a peak of 15.5-16psi! How, then, is this massive increase in performance obtained? Are the Prodrive maps really that effective? I guess they must be.
I have had the car on the rollers to make a comparison but my power loss through the transmission has somehow increased from 69bhp on my last run to 95bhp on this one, causing some concern over the figures. The operator was puzzled as to the cause, as the only differences in the car are different gear oil and tyres, but surely they can't account for losses of that much?
Anyway, exact figures aside, what I wanted to see was whether the torque had increased more than the bhp. It did.....substantially.
Perhaps the run at Powerstation next week will shed more light on the transmission loss question? I will almost certainly still go the Unichip route in the near future as I believe it offers more flexibility, and surely it is possible to at least duplicate the cars current power delivery? (Copies of the 'maps' please Prodrive? ).
So, whilst I am stunned at the way CK1 now performs, would I pay £2,000 for the privelege under normal circustances?
Well, if keeping my warranty was essential for whatever reason, you're god damn right I would!
Stef.
In the past I have been fairly vocal about the PPP, or at least the lack of 'vfm' I thought it offered. £2,000 for an ecu, a back box and some hoses? Pah! No way! For the same money you could get a full exhaust system AND a MOTEC. Surely the ultimate?
Given the choice, if I had the cash, I would probably go for the MOTEC.
However, I was fortunate enough to come across someone that was selling a PPP ecu for a fraction of the new cost (thanx Ian
). My intention was to try it for a while, realise that it really didn't make that much of a difference, sell it for a bit more than I paid and buy a Unichip, which I'd been looking forward to for ages. What this circuit board has done to my car though is nothing short of a miracle! I had never driven a PPP'd car before, and whilst I was impressed by the supposed gains on paper, especially in low-end torque, I never realised what a difference that would make to the cars driveability. I have always yearned for more torque, and the Unichip was the planned method of obtaining this as I had heard no bad reports about it. If that performs as well as what I have now, I'll be at Powerstation first thing Monday!
What I'm going to do is live with the PPP a while longer though. There is no doubt that on the road the difference is awesome. The car has hardly any lag, the pick-up from low revs is stunning, fifth gear has become fourth, and the list goes on.....
What has surprised and confused me is that all these gains have been obtained with hardly any increase in boost pressure. Before it was fitted, my car would show peak pressure of around 15psi. On the same flat piece of road, flooring the car in fourth only shows a peak of 15.5-16psi! How, then, is this massive increase in performance obtained? Are the Prodrive maps really that effective? I guess they must be.
I have had the car on the rollers to make a comparison but my power loss through the transmission has somehow increased from 69bhp on my last run to 95bhp on this one, causing some concern over the figures. The operator was puzzled as to the cause, as the only differences in the car are different gear oil and tyres, but surely they can't account for losses of that much?
Anyway, exact figures aside, what I wanted to see was whether the torque had increased more than the bhp. It did.....substantially.
Perhaps the run at Powerstation next week will shed more light on the transmission loss question? I will almost certainly still go the Unichip route in the near future as I believe it offers more flexibility, and surely it is possible to at least duplicate the cars current power delivery? (Copies of the 'maps' please Prodrive?
).So, whilst I am stunned at the way CK1 now performs, would I pay £2,000 for the privelege under normal circustances?
Well, if keeping my warranty was essential for whatever reason, you're god damn right I would!
Stef.
04 November 2000, 01:52 PM
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You will probably find the ppp ecu runs more advance than the standard and that is why there is a gain both off boost and with such a little increase in boost.
Just a guess in the dark as I dont have a clue about scoobs.
Martin
Just a guess in the dark as I dont have a clue about scoobs.
Martin
04 November 2000, 03:16 PM
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All you need is a huge smokescreen effect and you'll be well in with the 400bhp cossie boys !!
I'm jealous of your new found pickup at low revs, my Linked MY96 is in serious need of at least a 'proper' downpipe to get that big turbo spinning earlier. Unfortunately a financial bombshell has been dropped in my vicinity (thanks babe !!) which has knocked that idea on the head. Just have to keep the revs above 3500 for the next few years I guess !
Neil.
I'm jealous of your new found pickup at low revs, my Linked MY96 is in serious need of at least a 'proper' downpipe to get that big turbo spinning earlier. Unfortunately a financial bombshell has been dropped in my vicinity (thanks babe !!) which has knocked that idea on the head. Just have to keep the revs above 3500 for the next few years I guess !
Neil.
04 November 2000, 03:53 PM
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Stef, welcome to the PPP club!
I too was a bit concerned about the price and the fact the the dealers I spoke to didn't seem to know much and the Prodrive literature seemed to suggest quite modest gains.
So I phoned Subaru to see if they knew of a dealer with a PPP demonstrator. Listers had one, and they knew what they were talking about, too. The difference is just stupendous. I'd decided to get it after 30 seconds, but I drove it for a full three hours just to make sure! (They even phoned me to check I wasn't in a ditch somewhere.) Stef, try it with SUL and Millers Octane Plus - even better.
What's your view of this theory I have on Prodrive's PP. 1) Prodrive know how to make Scoobs go very fast. 2) But their PPP carries the full 3 year's warranty. 3) Nobody is going to offer a guarantee on something which is likely to go pop. 4) Should we therefore deduce that any engine mods that push power output much beyond that of the PPP threaten reliability?
Alternatively, is it just the cat (which has to be there to make it legal) which is limiting the PPP?
Hoppy
PS Listers demo car also had the Prodrive handling package and so I had to have that, too. Expensive day out.
I too was a bit concerned about the price and the fact the the dealers I spoke to didn't seem to know much and the Prodrive literature seemed to suggest quite modest gains.
So I phoned Subaru to see if they knew of a dealer with a PPP demonstrator. Listers had one, and they knew what they were talking about, too. The difference is just stupendous. I'd decided to get it after 30 seconds, but I drove it for a full three hours just to make sure! (They even phoned me to check I wasn't in a ditch somewhere.) Stef, try it with SUL and Millers Octane Plus - even better.
What's your view of this theory I have on Prodrive's PP. 1) Prodrive know how to make Scoobs go very fast. 2) But their PPP carries the full 3 year's warranty. 3) Nobody is going to offer a guarantee on something which is likely to go pop. 4) Should we therefore deduce that any engine mods that push power output much beyond that of the PPP threaten reliability?
Alternatively, is it just the cat (which has to be there to make it legal) which is limiting the PPP?
Hoppy
PS Listers demo car also had the Prodrive handling package and so I had to have that, too. Expensive day out.
04 November 2000, 04:17 PM
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Was it done b4 brands stef? Cause Nat says that your "boosty guage thingy" was hitting around 1.2 bar and sometimes 1.3?? 
And also, on that ring footage it shows that also..Just wondered.....Cause it seems v.quick!
Ronaldo
And also, on that ring footage it shows that also..Just wondered.....Cause it seems v.quick!
Ronaldo
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05 November 2000, 05:47 PM
#13
Sorry, not convinced! I drove a PPP MY00 car and whilst there was some difference it wasn't staggering. I'll have to have a longer drive in it just to make sure.
Perhaps it was down to my MY99 (std)car being so quick to start with that the difference wasn't so great. If I had got out of my MY00 (which is noticably slower) I may have agreed with you.
F
Perhaps it was down to my MY99 (std)car being so quick to start with that the difference wasn't so great. If I had got out of my MY00 (which is noticably slower) I may have agreed with you.
F
05 November 2000, 08:42 PM
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Floyd
As has been said many times before the only true test is before and after on your own car. Like many other I did this on a MY99. The difference was very noticable.
Not sure if the MY00 done have some changes as the MY00 I owned was noticably tighter and slower than the MY99. In fact I thought it felt like less than 200 bhp in std form.
Jonathan
As has been said many times before the only true test is before and after on your own car. Like many other I did this on a MY99. The difference was very noticable.
Not sure if the MY00 done have some changes as the MY00 I owned was noticably tighter and slower than the MY99. In fact I thought it felt like less than 200 bhp in std form.
Jonathan
06 November 2000, 12:50 AM
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Hi Peeps.
In response to your questions....
Ronaldo.
It was not done before Brands or the Ring, but only last week. How have you seen the Ring footage?
Oh, and my boost gauge doesn't show the pressure in bar, it shows psi!!! Is Nat really that clever?
Floyd.
As has been said elsewhere, I already had a cat-less exhaust and induction kit which probably makes a sizeable difference to the 'official' set-up.
David.
My car is a MY98. Perhaps for the same reason as above mine feels more noticeable?
Harj.
Not me mate. No reason to hide it. My car has never seen 1.3 bar, even now. It hit 17psi last night, which is the highest I've ever seen. It was cold, wet and going up a hill though, so you'd expect it.
Spod times were poo....13.7 was my best. Wasn't launching well.
Diablo.
Don't know. Mike? Simon? Is it actually OK to transplant a PPP ecu from the same MY?????
My fuelling is OK so what else would be at risk?
Markus.
Donno on Sunday will be the first time on track with the PPP ecu. I'll let you know how it feels afterwards. I'm also using thicker front and rear anti-roll bars for the first time too.
Greg.
Unless you come across one in the same way I did, I believe buying the full PPP from Prodrive is the only way of obtaining one.
Stef (still smiling! ).
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 06 November 2000).]
In response to your questions....
Ronaldo.
It was not done before Brands or the Ring, but only last week. How have you seen the Ring footage?
Oh, and my boost gauge doesn't show the pressure in bar, it shows psi!!! Is Nat really that clever?
Floyd.
As has been said elsewhere, I already had a cat-less exhaust and induction kit which probably makes a sizeable difference to the 'official' set-up.
David.
My car is a MY98. Perhaps for the same reason as above mine feels more noticeable?
Harj.
Not me mate. No reason to hide it. My car has never seen 1.3 bar, even now. It hit 17psi last night, which is the highest I've ever seen. It was cold, wet and going up a hill though, so you'd expect it.
Spod times were poo....13.7 was my best. Wasn't launching well.
Diablo.
Don't know. Mike? Simon? Is it actually OK to transplant a PPP ecu from the same MY?????
My fuelling is OK so what else would be at risk?
Markus.
Donno on Sunday will be the first time on track with the PPP ecu. I'll let you know how it feels afterwards. I'm also using thicker front and rear anti-roll bars for the first time too.
Greg.
Unless you come across one in the same way I did, I believe buying the full PPP from Prodrive is the only way of obtaining one.
Stef (still smiling!
).[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 06 November 2000).]
06 November 2000, 08:11 AM
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Er Stef, is the Prodrive ECU not supposedly set up for each individual car (hence the reason they cannot be dealer fitted?
Don't want to worry you mate, but I'd be careful if it was my Scoob
D
Don't want to worry you mate, but I'd be careful if it was my Scoob
D
06 November 2000, 08:39 AM
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As I have posted elsewhere I put my MY00 on a rolling road to find out as it seemed sluggish, it put out only 204.5 bhp. I do not have aircon, or any other extras on the car. Anyone out there got a MY00 that puts out the figures it is suppose to????
06 November 2000, 09:19 AM
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Steff
I have to say how impressed I am with your post! As you say, you have been very vocal in the past and it’s good to see you are prepared to make a positive post on trying the product.
Thank you
Simon
I have to say how impressed I am with your post! As you say, you have been very vocal in the past and it’s good to see you are prepared to make a positive post on trying the product.
Thank you
Simon
06 November 2000, 10:18 AM
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Stef,
Was this addition made before or after Brands? If not then please let us all know what it's like on track, as you're a bit of a track master.
Anyone know if a prodrive ECU would fit in a MY94 WRX Wagon
Was this addition made before or after Brands? If not then please let us all know what it's like on track, as you're a bit of a track master.
Anyone know if a prodrive ECU would fit in a MY94 WRX Wagon
06 November 2000, 10:53 AM
#25
Robertio
I am going to the next rolling road shootout and I should be able to tell you how much BHP etc. I will also see how much difference there is on Stef's car if he's there.
It is a bit worrying about the Prodrive set up-bit though. Maybe Prodrive can give us an answer as to whether you can just fit one or if a set-up is needed?
F
PS thinking of having PPP now....
I am going to the next rolling road shootout and I should be able to tell you how much BHP etc. I will also see how much difference there is on Stef's car if he's there.
It is a bit worrying about the Prodrive set up-bit though. Maybe Prodrive can give us an answer as to whether you can just fit one or if a set-up is needed?
F
PS thinking of having PPP now....
07 November 2000, 12:40 AM
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I drove Stefs car last night and it certainly goes alot quicker than before, I was impressed by the torque in 3rd an 4th gears. The ECU has converted the car completly from its previous voice, midrange power has the largest increase.
Nice one
Harj.....
Nice one
Harj.....
07 November 2000, 08:53 AM
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I've just bought the PPP for a my00. It's not mappable, just a straight swap of the eco box (plus exhaust & intercooler hosing).
I guess it's supposed to be a dealer (or Prodrive) fit option only in the UK because of the warranty - no such worries here, it's *not* warranty friendly
I've not fitted it yet (waiting for first service), but it seems straightforward.
Regards
Richard
I guess it's supposed to be a dealer (or Prodrive) fit option only in the UK because of the warranty - no such worries here, it's *not* warranty friendly
I've not fitted it yet (waiting for first service), but it seems straightforward.
Regards
Richard