Is Optimax the new Broquet.....????
23 October 2001, 05:16 PM
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Lots of threads, even more bullsh1te being thrown around then your average bullsh1te farmer thrower type bloke.
Is Optimax the new Broquet product that we all need in out BBS lives so we can throw in our 10ps worth without basing anything we say on fact?
Is it any good, or should we not BELIEVE THE HYPE? I'll let you decide......
Claims so far:
"Caused my car to det"
"More Boost"
"Definately smoother"
"Definately rougher running"
"You'd have to be a crack head to not like it"
"I wont be using it again"
"Going back to SUL"
"Got 4 degrees more with it"
"Lost x% power"
"My cossie doesnt like it"
"My car loves it"
"Better fuel economy"
"Far worse fuel economy"
"Research Octane Rating - Motor Octane Rating - (R+M)/2 Rating"
"Its a much cleaner fuel"
"77.9p"
"My mate says its dearer than SUL"
And the list goes on............... Sound familiar anyone
Anyway, how are those of you plonking your little lead ***** into your tank doing now........??
Do Broquets work better than Optimax or better WITH optimax? Does Optimax perform better when used on off shore motor boats who also have Broquets?????
Do you get a smoother ride and less engine wear, or is it a case of "WELL IT CANT DO ANY HARM"!!!!
If a Lion had a fight with a Killer Whale, who would win???
Your all MAD!!!
Jza
PS. You definately get a nice keyring from Shell and thats a FACT!!!
Is Optimax the new Broquet product that we all need in out BBS lives so we can throw in our 10ps worth without basing anything we say on fact?
Is it any good, or should we not BELIEVE THE HYPE? I'll let you decide......
Claims so far:
"Caused my car to det"
"More Boost"
"Definately smoother"
"Definately rougher running"
"You'd have to be a crack head to not like it"
"I wont be using it again"
"Going back to SUL"
"Got 4 degrees more with it"
"Lost x% power"
"My cossie doesnt like it"
"My car loves it"
"Better fuel economy"
"Far worse fuel economy"
"Research Octane Rating - Motor Octane Rating - (R+M)/2 Rating"
"Its a much cleaner fuel"
"77.9p"
"My mate says its dearer than SUL"
And the list goes on............... Sound familiar anyone
Anyway, how are those of you plonking your little lead ***** into your tank doing now........??
Do Broquets work better than Optimax or better WITH optimax? Does Optimax perform better when used on off shore motor boats who also have Broquets?????
Do you get a smoother ride and less engine wear, or is it a case of "WELL IT CANT DO ANY HARM"!!!!
If a Lion had a fight with a Killer Whale, who would win???
Your all MAD!!!
Jza
PS. You definately get a nice keyring from Shell and thats a FACT!!!
23 October 2001, 05:24 PM
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You could be right mate! hmmmm
Mind you.. it might be a placebo effect but I reckon i could feel the difference in the scoob. there was a deffo difference in the very octane sensitive mapping of our Saab 900 conversion over BP 97 RON.
But I am a tart, who spends more time listening to his stereo... so who knows!!
I'll keep using it anyway!! (sucker for marketing hype
)Cheers
Trouser
23 October 2001, 05:26 PM
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3 things.
1. never heard a complaint about broquet by anyone who has used it.
2. I am not inclined to doubt optimax, ferrari have one heck of a reputation and I have never seen them endorse any other products on british television.
3. It is the cheapest "super" unleaded around my area, so who cares?
1. never heard a complaint about broquet by anyone who has used it.
2. I am not inclined to doubt optimax, ferrari have one heck of a reputation and I have never seen them endorse any other products on british television.
3. It is the cheapest "super" unleaded around my area, so who cares?
23 October 2001, 06:59 PM
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www.broquet.co.uk will give you an idea of what Broquet is about. I think it is wonderful but I sell it (and have done for 12 years)! A search will show up a huge debate on its merits or otherwise. It was fitted into every P1 afted testing by Subaru/IM. As far as Scoobs are concerned we claim that it allows the engine to run better that it would otherwise on a lower octane fuel and reduce 'det (there is a lot more to it than that though).
I have followed the Optimax debate with much interest and it does show how subjective these things are. One mans meat etc. There is no problem using Optimax with Broquet and I would say you are then getting the best of both worlds. Anyone who wants specific details is welcome to mail me off board (david@broquet.co.uk) and I will try and help. List price for a Scoob it is £147.70 and it never needs replacing. David Lock.
Edited for spiling
[Edited by David Lock - 10/23/2001 7:01:43 PM]
I have followed the Optimax debate with much interest and it does show how subjective these things are. One mans meat etc. There is no problem using Optimax with Broquet and I would say you are then getting the best of both worlds. Anyone who wants specific details is welcome to mail me off board (david@broquet.co.uk) and I will try and help. List price for a Scoob it is £147.70 and it never needs replacing. David Lock.
Edited for spiling
[Edited by David Lock - 10/23/2001 7:01:43 PM]
23 October 2001, 07:27 PM
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Tick Tacks had the Ferrari logo on in the UK. They must make your breath fresher, faster. Either that or you can just pay them enough and get the logo on anything.
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23 October 2001, 07:44 PM
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Jizz,
learn about controlling a turbo car through the ECU and then decide who's bull****ting.
Oh, and by the way, Broquet makes the car feel better but did not create a material difference on my car, but I don't regret it. Optimax provides a measurable difference.
Trout
I swim in Optimax
Except it washed all my spots off
learn about controlling a turbo car through the ECU and then decide who's bull****ting.
Oh, and by the way, Broquet makes the car feel better but did not create a material difference on my car, but I don't regret it. Optimax provides a measurable difference.
Trout
I swim in Optimax
Except it washed all my spots off
24 October 2001, 11:47 AM
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Broquets where marketed based on very little actual fact and yet quoted to show considerable benefits. We went through lots of threads discussing the claimed merits against what actual fact there was. We got quotes very similar to the ones we now get for optimax.....
I came to the conclusion at the time that there was very little actual fact that was readily available that PROVED the product did what it claimed it did. People kinda were saying "well it cant do any harm" and then there were a string of "its fantastic" posts with huge differences found in MPG, smoothness etc. But again this was based on ZERO FACT and could have been down to luck or chance etc....
I then ran a thread that likened the product to anti-aging cream where there is little or no empirical evidence but people buy anyway because its claimed to make a huge difference and some ex-soap star says it works. I remember at one point the Broquets were being talked about on the lines that "it cant do any harm trying".
I'd like to believe that Broquets does something, i have no information to prove otherwise!!!!! I like Optimax, but again i have nothing to base my beliefs on.
So now we see Optimax being discussed in the same way.......... see above .......... which is kinda the point of this thread
Loads and Loads of people are giving their 10ps worth on Optimax basing it on ZERO fact.... just like they did 8 months ago on Broquets....... we've got a new product to bullsh1t about!!!!
And now i see the good old Broquets threads are starting up again! Yipee!!!!!!!!!!
As i said, dont you just love this BBS
Jza
I came to the conclusion at the time that there was very little actual fact that was readily available that PROVED the product did what it claimed it did. People kinda were saying "well it cant do any harm" and then there were a string of "its fantastic" posts with huge differences found in MPG, smoothness etc. But again this was based on ZERO FACT and could have been down to luck or chance etc....
I then ran a thread that likened the product to anti-aging cream where there is little or no empirical evidence but people buy anyway because its claimed to make a huge difference and some ex-soap star says it works. I remember at one point the Broquets were being talked about on the lines that "it cant do any harm trying".
I'd like to believe that Broquets does something, i have no information to prove otherwise!!!!! I like Optimax, but again i have nothing to base my beliefs on.
So now we see Optimax being discussed in the same way.......... see above .......... which is kinda the point of this thread
Loads and Loads of people are giving their 10ps worth on Optimax basing it on ZERO fact.... just like they did 8 months ago on Broquets....... we've got a new product to bullsh1t about!!!!
And now i see the good old Broquets threads are starting up again! Yipee!!!!!!!!!!
As i said, dont you just love this BBS
Jza
24 October 2001, 12:45 PM
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Jza,
I can give you a cold, hard *fact* about my useage of Optimax.
I've run it in my M5 now for three months and my average MPG has gone up from around 20 dead to 21.5-ish.
Now that is a *fact* and I haven't used anything else since I started filling up with Optimax so it can't be down to anything else.
Other things I would say I've noticed is that the car feels a lot more responsive and definitely smoother.
But they're observations as opposed to facts.
When my Scoob arrives next week it'll be run exclusively on it too, I've even asked the dealer NOT to fill the car up with any of their cr*p stuff, I beleive Optimax is that good
Alan.
[Edited by AlanN - 10/24/2001 12:46:42 PM]
I can give you a cold, hard *fact* about my useage of Optimax.
I've run it in my M5 now for three months and my average MPG has gone up from around 20 dead to 21.5-ish.
Now that is a *fact* and I haven't used anything else since I started filling up with Optimax so it can't be down to anything else.
Other things I would say I've noticed is that the car feels a lot more responsive and definitely smoother.
But they're observations as opposed to facts.
When my Scoob arrives next week it'll be run exclusively on it too, I've even asked the dealer NOT to fill the car up with any of their cr*p stuff, I beleive Optimax is that good
Alan.
[Edited by AlanN - 10/24/2001 12:46:42 PM]
24 October 2001, 01:42 PM
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Alan,
Please re-read your post. There are so many factors that could affect your MPG that stating that its gone down is in all honestly, just a 10p's worth "perception" from you. You cannot possibly tell exactly - do you always drive at the same speed, air temp, road conditions. Do you brake the same amount each and every journey? Is your acceleration Linear in every gear? Is the wind speed a constant on your planet? If they arent then it just adds up to one thing - its JUST YOUR PERCEPTION, not a proven actual fact.
So thanks for your comments, but as i said, this is just a bit more bullsh1t to add to the pile.........
Add your findings to my list in my first post
Jza
Please re-read your post. There are so many factors that could affect your MPG that stating that its gone down is in all honestly, just a 10p's worth "perception" from you. You cannot possibly tell exactly - do you always drive at the same speed, air temp, road conditions. Do you brake the same amount each and every journey? Is your acceleration Linear in every gear? Is the wind speed a constant on your planet? If they arent then it just adds up to one thing - its JUST YOUR PERCEPTION, not a proven actual fact.
So thanks for your comments, but as i said, this is just a bit more bullsh1t to add to the pile.........
Add your findings to my list in my first post
Jza
24 October 2001, 01:51 PM
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JZA,
I take your point regarding alans points.
One important thing is exactly how dop you want it quantified?
there is no measure of smoothness, it is impossible to do a side by side mpg test or an engine noise tst, so what use is anything except for suggestions.
I supopse they could use a compression engine and work out the ron ratings, that way we could caompare it directly with equivalnet fuels such as esso super unleaded.
Oh look.........
they do,.....it's 98.6 v 97.
That is a figure which has been empiracally derived. But even armed with that you are still complaining.
Why dont you use it over an extended period, and if you like it then keep buying it. If not, dont!
I take your point regarding alans points.
One important thing is exactly how dop you want it quantified?
there is no measure of smoothness, it is impossible to do a side by side mpg test or an engine noise tst, so what use is anything except for suggestions.
I supopse they could use a compression engine and work out the ron ratings, that way we could caompare it directly with equivalnet fuels such as esso super unleaded.
Oh look.........
they do,.....it's 98.6 v 97.That is a figure which has been empiracally derived. But even armed with that you are still complaining.
Why dont you use it over an extended period, and if you like it then keep buying it. If not, dont!
24 October 2001, 01:59 PM
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Adam,
You aren't getting what im saying.......
I like Optimax. My MPG has gone down, it pulls better etc.
BUT
This is not based on any FACT. As was the case for Broquets, this is based on my opinion and perception
Until someone tests Optimax "properly" and proves its pros and cons (as they should with Broquets) people should realise that they are only adding their 10p's to the large pile of poo when they make these wild and totaly differing claims based on zero actual fact
Jza
You aren't getting what im saying.......
I like Optimax. My MPG has gone down, it pulls better etc.
BUT
This is not based on any FACT. As was the case for Broquets, this is based on my opinion and perception
Until someone tests Optimax "properly" and proves its pros and cons (as they should with Broquets) people should realise that they are only adding their 10p's to the large pile of poo when they make these wild and totaly differing claims based on zero actual fact
Jza
24 October 2001, 03:14 PM
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No jza, you dont understand what I am saying.
All the tests can show you is how the fuel compares on a test engine to other fuels.
This will never tell you what will happen on your car, because situations are different.
The only standard ways of comparing fuels are on their ron and mon ratings, and these have been tested.
These are facts, and are as factual as fuel figures can be.
I dont understand what kind of tests you want, but I do know that they will give the same outcome as all the mini tests have done here.
Rannoch, was able to advance timing by a few degrees with optimax. That is a good outcome. Craigs car detted more without it than with it.
Even armed with empirical facts which suggest teh fuel should be better (mon and ron) we are still seeing some negative repsonse.
The only thing to do is try it and not give a damn what happens with other people cars as you dont drive theirs, you drive your own.
Buy it or dont. Simple as that. if you dont like, dont buy it, but dont complain when others give their opinion, cos some people trust perceptions more than statistics which can be distorted to show anything.
I still believe ferrari would not put money and their name behind something that is not an improvement.
All the tests can show you is how the fuel compares on a test engine to other fuels.
This will never tell you what will happen on your car, because situations are different.
The only standard ways of comparing fuels are on their ron and mon ratings, and these have been tested.
These are facts, and are as factual as fuel figures can be.
I dont understand what kind of tests you want, but I do know that they will give the same outcome as all the mini tests have done here.
Rannoch, was able to advance timing by a few degrees with optimax. That is a good outcome. Craigs car detted more without it than with it.
Even armed with empirical facts which suggest teh fuel should be better (mon and ron) we are still seeing some negative repsonse.
The only thing to do is try it and not give a damn what happens with other people cars as you dont drive theirs, you drive your own.
Buy it or dont. Simple as that. if you dont like, dont buy it, but dont complain when others give their opinion, cos some people trust perceptions more than statistics which can be distorted to show anything.
I still believe ferrari would not put money and their name behind something that is not an improvement.
24 October 2001, 03:32 PM
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No Adam, you dont get it do you....
Read what my thread is titled...
People spent months arguing about Broquets....
No proof, but lots of 10ps worth....
The sames happening again....
Lots of 10ps worth.... with little empirical evidence other than (see list in first post for details)..
I didnt want a MASS DEBATE on the pros and cons of each product, i was using them as a way of pointing out how much we all add our 10ps without basing it on fact... hey, but no lives are lost so who cares right????
I find it funny - and as i said love this BBS to death but would point out that users shouldn't read everything people post as FACT (that includes you and your comments on other threads about broquets). Even from "respected" members
Peace Bro!
Jza
[Edited by Jza - 10/24/2001 3:37:17 PM]
Read what my thread is titled...
People spent months arguing about Broquets....
No proof, but lots of 10ps worth....
The sames happening again....
Lots of 10ps worth.... with little empirical evidence other than (see list in first post for details)..
I didnt want a MASS DEBATE on the pros and cons of each product, i was using them as a way of pointing out how much we all add our 10ps without basing it on fact... hey, but no lives are lost so who cares right????
I find it funny - and as i said love this BBS to death but would point out that users shouldn't read everything people post as FACT (that includes you and your comments on other threads about broquets). Even from "respected" members
Peace Bro!
Jza
[Edited by Jza - 10/24/2001 3:37:17 PM]
24 October 2001, 03:56 PM
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peace indeed.
You have forgotten one major difference.
The broquet was a one off device. buy or not, and people whinged and whined about ti for years.
Petrol is a consumable that has to be bought. It is much easier for people to take the plunge and see how they get on. It wont be a waste of money like the broquet may or may not have been because it is still petrol and will power your car. So no, I disagree with your take on this.
Peace indeed. No internet war intended.
You have forgotten one major difference.
The broquet was a one off device. buy or not, and people whinged and whined about ti for years.
Petrol is a consumable that has to be bought. It is much easier for people to take the plunge and see how they get on. It wont be a waste of money like the broquet may or may not have been because it is still petrol and will power your car. So no, I disagree with your take on this.
Peace indeed. No internet war intended.
24 October 2001, 04:30 PM
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Jizz,
you have me completely puzzled.
A car is remapped to run on Optimax - provides objectively better figures in terms of advance and det control.
The same car will now NOT run on SUL with problems.
And this is not just one car, but a number of Linked/Moteced cars.
So, what kind of facts do you want.
By the way the same cars I am referring to also have Broquet, they also said they subjectively liked Broquet, but could find no objective measure to say it was better.
So can you tell me what kind of facts you are looking for?
Trout (Rannoch as Adam kindly calls me for reasons of nostalgia)
PS Off to fill my car up with Optimax
you have me completely puzzled.
A car is remapped to run on Optimax - provides objectively better figures in terms of advance and det control.
The same car will now NOT run on SUL with problems.
And this is not just one car, but a number of Linked/Moteced cars.
So, what kind of facts do you want.
By the way the same cars I am referring to also have Broquet, they also said they subjectively liked Broquet, but could find no objective measure to say it was better.
So can you tell me what kind of facts you are looking for?
Trout (Rannoch as Adam kindly calls me for reasons of nostalgia
)PS Off to fill my car up with Optimax
24 October 2001, 04:58 PM
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I was just thinking...
Is Optimax meant to 'clean' as well as do all this apparently other wonderful stuff? If it is, then is it possible that on a first (2nd, 3rd) tank it's 'cleaning' and so junk from around the petrol tank/engine or wherever else the stuff gets into is coming off & making the car run worse, temporarily? So, long term use - or at leat a few fill-ups - would improve the situation? That would at least explain why there is a varied response. Personally, the biggest difference I noticed is there's been none of that hesitation when the engine's cold, but that only happened after 3 tanks (Optimax is for reasons unknown to me by far the cheapest SUL around here). So I still use it, although may well have not noticed the benefits if it hadn't been the cheapest as I may have not bothered after the first tank
Sorry to hijack the ranting & raving Broquet debate & bring stuff back to the subject. Well, vaguely the subject anyway
Where's the codey thing for the gone? I can't remember them! Well, except for this one Oo, and it looks like I got this one right as well!
[edited to correct my ]
[Edited by nom - 10/24/2001 4:59:22 PM]
Is Optimax meant to 'clean' as well as do all this apparently other wonderful stuff? If it is, then is it possible that on a first (2nd, 3rd) tank it's 'cleaning' and so junk from around the petrol tank/engine or wherever else the stuff gets into is coming off & making the car run worse, temporarily? So, long term use - or at leat a few fill-ups - would improve the situation? That would at least explain why there is a varied response. Personally, the biggest difference I noticed is there's been none of that hesitation when the engine's cold, but that only happened after 3 tanks (Optimax is for reasons unknown to me by far the cheapest SUL around here). So I still use it, although may well have not noticed the benefits if it hadn't been the cheapest as I may have not bothered after the first tank
Sorry to hijack the ranting & raving Broquet debate & bring stuff back to the subject. Well, vaguely the subject anyway
Where's the codey thing for the
gone? I can't remember them! Well, except for this one Oo, and it looks like I got this one right as well![edited to correct my
][Edited by nom - 10/24/2001 4:59:22 PM]
24 October 2001, 05:08 PM
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Trout,
Read the thread heading.
....Is Optimax the new Broquet??.
IE do we now talk on endlessly about its merits regardless of facts of figures as we did with Broquets in the past?? Do we throw in our 10ps worth based on a few trips to tesco's and back????
From your post the answer is a big "CAN I GET A HELL YES"
Jza
Read the thread heading.
....Is Optimax the new Broquet??.
IE do we now talk on endlessly about its merits regardless of facts of figures as we did with Broquets in the past?? Do we throw in our 10ps worth based on a few trips to tesco's and back????
From your post the answer is a big "CAN I GET A HELL YES"
Jza
25 October 2001, 01:17 PM
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The only FACT I can elucidate from you is that there is something clearly not connected in your brain.
Irrespective of FACTS offered your return to the same mantra of NO FACTS. So I repeat my question - what facts do you want - over and above those offered.
The facts offered are based on a combined experience of well over 100,000 miles of ECU tuning - not a trip to Tescos as you suggest.
Or maybe you can't read
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 25/10/2001 13:32:30]
Irrespective of FACTS offered your return to the same mantra of NO FACTS. So I repeat my question - what facts do you want - over and above those offered.
The facts offered are based on a combined experience of well over 100,000 miles of ECU tuning - not a trip to Tescos as you suggest.
Or maybe you can't read
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 25/10/2001 13:32:30]
25 October 2001, 01:32 PM
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For f*cks sake Trout... this thread was intended as a joke meant to make people realise we all talk a load of bullsh1te and then say "FACT" when we really dont know the facts. If you see the list i compiled its funny no - and based on what people have written.
If you think you have some marvelous facts then im really pleased for you. But at the moment your becoming a bit **** Retentative!!! Get you Lab coat and big Glasses off and get back to trainspotting (i am joking - dont take me as serious)
Jza
PS Someone close this thread....... please!!!!
If you think you have some marvelous facts then im really pleased for you. But at the moment your becoming a bit **** Retentative!!! Get you Lab coat and big Glasses off and get back to trainspotting (i am joking - dont take me as serious
) Jza
PS Someone close this thread....... please!!!!
25 October 2001, 01:33 PM
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rannoch/david/trout
As you can see from the other page, this is a lost cause.
I am buggered if I know what info he wants.
Dont bother thinking about it.
sorry jza, you are going to have to explain what info/facts are going to convince you to buy or not.
There were none with broquet, except it allwoed more advance on bob rawles ecu (I think). That was good enough for me, and the same goes with trouts test on optimax.
But then I started using it before he posted these results as 98 ron is a better claim than all the others.
Maybe you could explain yourself more clearly, it might help
As you can see from the other page, this is a lost cause.
I am buggered if I know what info he wants.
Dont bother thinking about it.
sorry jza, you are going to have to explain what info/facts are going to convince you to buy or not.
There were none with broquet, except it allwoed more advance on bob rawles ecu (I think). That was good enough for me, and the same goes with trouts test on optimax.
But then I started using it before he posted these results as 98 ron is a better claim than all the others.
Maybe you could explain yourself more clearly, it might help
25 October 2001, 01:43 PM
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ARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
ITS A JOKE!!! YOUR SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT THE LIST OF WHAT PEOPLE HAVE SAID AND SEE THAT PEOPLE HAVE QUOTED THEIR "FACTS" AND THAT EACH FACT THEY QUOTE IS NEGATED BY SOMEONE ELSES OPPOSITE "FACT"!!!!
THIS HAPPENED WITH BROQUETS!!!
THATS ALL. NO ROCKET SCIENCE, JUST TAKING THE **** OUT OF US ALL!
JESUS, YOU LOT SHOULD LOOSEN UP!!!!!!
I DONT WANT ANY FACTS! JUST LAUGH AT WHAT WE ARE ALL SAYING!! LIKE WE DID WITH BROQUETS HENCE THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD!!!
ITS LIKE POSTING IN **** GERMANY SOMETIMES WITH YOU TECHY LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JESUS!!!!!!!
JZA
ITS A JOKE!!! YOUR SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT THE LIST OF WHAT PEOPLE HAVE SAID AND SEE THAT PEOPLE HAVE QUOTED THEIR "FACTS" AND THAT EACH FACT THEY QUOTE IS NEGATED BY SOMEONE ELSES OPPOSITE "FACT"!!!!
THIS HAPPENED WITH BROQUETS!!!
THATS ALL. NO ROCKET SCIENCE, JUST TAKING THE **** OUT OF US ALL!
JESUS, YOU LOT SHOULD LOOSEN UP!!!!!!
I DONT WANT ANY FACTS! JUST LAUGH AT WHAT WE ARE ALL SAYING!! LIKE WE DID WITH BROQUETS HENCE THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD!!!
ITS LIKE POSTING IN **** GERMANY SOMETIMES WITH YOU TECHY LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JESUS!!!!!!!
JZA
25 October 2001, 02:01 PM
#27
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It's an anarchist/nihilist thread isn't it.
You say black I'll say white. We neither have any conclusive proof that either is true.
If you've seen "The Life of Brian" Brian, totally exasperated tells the people following him in the desert to "oh look........, just f#ck off!!"
Pause then one of them asks "but master how shall we f#ck off".
Some people, you see, can't take a hint.
You say black I'll say white. We neither have any conclusive proof that either is true.
If you've seen "The Life of Brian" Brian, totally exasperated tells the people following him in the desert to "oh look........, just f#ck off!!"
Pause then one of them asks "but master how shall we f#ck off".
Some people, you see, can't take a hint.
25 October 2001, 02:40 PM
#29
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sorry jza,
first of all, when I wrote my last post, yours wasnt up.
Second all, my brain is not in tune with yours so the nature of what you were getting at didnt exactly seem evident to me.
first of all, when I wrote my last post, yours wasnt up.
Second all, my brain is not in tune with yours so the nature of what you were getting at didnt exactly seem evident to me.
25 October 2001, 02:42 PM
#30
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Adam,
for ****s sake stop look for evidence - you have been warned.
Trout
PS We have secret plan to fight detonation
PPS Optimax has washed away all my spots and my fins are a bit ragged now!
for ****s sake stop look for evidence - you have been warned.
Trout
PS We have secret plan to fight detonation
PPS Optimax has washed away all my spots and my fins are a bit ragged now!