Robertio

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure the hypothetical Golf was standard as there is absolutely no way a 1.8T (0-60 8.5sec) should be anywhere near the performance of a standard Impreza Turbo, never mind one with a PPP, and if it was a 2 litre then there is something seriously wrong with your car as my old Saxo VTR was quicker than a 2 litre Gti in that sort of range.

Fosters

yes, but how much acceleration would your saxo VTR have had at 100-110mph on said runway?

I can't remember what the wind was doing - but that's irrelevant it'd be doing it to the golf too.

through the gears to red line in 3rd, mines like being strapped to bloody fast thing on fast juice.

I should let another PPP owner drive mine to see if it compares similarly with theirs - any offers from surrey based people?

Blackscooby

I'm not pertaining to be any expert...but shouldn't a standard UK scoob walk past a Golf GTi ?

Even if its a Turbo GTi ?

Squizz

I've experienced a problem where boost doesn't seem to re-appear until higher up in the rev-range than usual, but only once or twice.

Sure the handbrake wasn't on...?

Fosters

Hypothetical situation:

Travelling behind a... hmmm let's see... a new Golf GTI... we're both accelerating a bit (along this hypothetical runway type affair) and I'm in 3rd with about 500 revs to go before the red line. he pulls in, I press the loud pedal to the floor and and I'm a couple of car lengths behind before I have to change into 4th at 7K revs

still foot to the floor (I presume his was too), why wasn't I overtaking rapidly? He did drift back behind me, but I wasn't overtaking as quick as I thought I should at full throttle in 4th

UK MY00 with a PPP, full tank of SUL and no passengers (capital radio on if it makes a difference) and seeing as it's hypothetical a naked Meg Ryan's standing at the side of road trying to hitch a lift.

It sounds silly but is a valid question (for me at least)

Geezer

Well, at 7k revs in third, you are probably pulling about 80-85 mph. I'm no expert (not in cars anyhow), but I would say that wind resistance would start to rear it's ugly head and reduce the effectiveness of your large power advantage.

Any offers?

Geezer

BrewandBake

Almost every day now I have a "run in" with a Golf Gti driver.
I leave for work at 6.30am & he is nearly always on or near a nice straight bit of duel carriageway we both use.
Its become a joke now between us - he always tries it on & I always trounce him. Its got to the stage now where I give him a healthy head start before scorching past him no problem - & he always gives me a thumbs up.
Mines an STi which might answer the question about not being able to pull a lead on your guy......much better top end you see

Brew.

[This message has been edited by BrewandBake (edited 13 October 2000).]

Fosters

anyone want to test drive mine then?

Fullonloon

I would have thought that you stayed in 3rd gear too long, fine if you were both trundling at 30-40mph - in third you can take it the whole range, but 3rd gear right at the top of the revs - theres no point, much better to put it in 4th straight away as you haven't much left to get out of 3rd.
Driver error...or am I missing something?

Q

Fosters

probable - not quite realising I was so near the red in 3rd. changing to 4th though I should have been well on my way, eh?

cwal1

500 revs from redline !!!

Maximum acceleration is at maximum torque not at the redline.

CW.

Fosters

I realise that!

I'm trying to illustrate the point that having changed into 4th I wasn't passing the golf as quick as I thought I should have been. I already admitted that I was in 3rd too long - I can't be the only one that very occasionally does this?!

Squizz

Trouble is, a Golf GTI (even the new lardy ones) are fast cars in a straight line. I still get passed by 1.1 Fiestas, four up, with the rear parcel shelf obscured by luggage at 90+ mph...

I still get surprised at how hard it is to trounce some motors that "shouldn't" give us too much trouble.

Mind you, make it twisty...Bye bye!!!

Followed a 911 up to 145mph, maxxed out, then caught him on a sweeping left hander. Nods of approval all 'round then off our separate ways. (Obviously not in this country... ).

Mulder

EH? NO golfs are fast.

BrewandBake

This subject is interesting (well to me anyway !)
If you take a very fast car - ie 0-60 in 5 secs & run it off the line next to a fast car - ie 0-60 in 7 secs.
By 60 the difference is only going to be just over a car length or so - not a huge amount visually.
Its gotta be the same "on the move" - the difference isn't going to be huge.
I remember looking at the TED (time exposed to danger) which Performance Car used to use as an indication of mid range grunt.
The difference between a Scooby Turbo & something like a Hot Hatch is only a second and a half or so which "on the road" probably doesn't seem like much in your rear view mirror.

I bet on the Porsche BBS they say things like "A poxy Scooby Turbo with much less power kept up with me no probs" too !!

Brew.

[This message has been edited by BrewandBake (edited 13 October 2000).]

Mulder

Prehaps 0-100 would be a better scale for this?

MartinM

BrewandBake

Doesn't compute m8?????

2 seconds difference in 0-60 is a car length (or so) at 60. I haven't got my GCSE physics book to hand at the mo, so can't prove it....but, assume the fast car instantaneously stops when it gets to 60. The slow car's still got 2 secs until it gets to 60. Surely it must be (loads) more than a car length behind when the fast one stops?

Oh no...where's this going.....

BrewandBake

Well maybe not 1 car length (havn't done the maths - failed 2 Maths A levels !!)
Though would be interested in hearing from someone who has worked this out !

Brew

PS : You can tell I have been on

Mungo

Okay, GCSE maths (ie assuming constant acceleration).
Assume also: standing start
Scooby 0-60 5.5 seconds
Golf 0-60 8.0 seconds.

Start side by side, after 5.5 seconds Scooby is doing 60mph and has travelled about 73 metres, Golf is doing about 41 mph and has only travelled about 50 metres.
So, Scooby should be miles ahead. However I suspect that most of the improvement in the 0-60 of the Scooby over the Golf is in the first second or two of getting of the line due to the AWD. This means that once on the move with full traction, the Golf will not drop behind so quickly.
Hope this makes sense.

sunilp

Are u sure this Golf Gti wasnt a V6 4 motion, if it was it has circa 200bhp and 200lb/ft torque too. Remeber at those speeds its harder to have the dramatic sling shot gap that you would at lower speeds.

What you need sir is a VF23 and Link which holds 1.2bar to 6700rpm on

BarryK

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Hypothetically, race on a a race track chaps.

Practically, who cares? The most lacking part in any car is the nut holding the wheel.

I'd bet RB3 (nee 5) would tater most of us in a milk float.

Well hypothetically at least.

Steve_Yeowart

Is this real world or simulated and with or with out a trailing wind?

Jonathan

The 1.8T engine in the Golf is a pretty tunable engine. Tuners can take it upto 230bhp. Its very simple to get 195bhp from the car which makes it pretty flexible.

I owned a 1.8T at the same time as my Prodrive RB5. They were not in the same league. Ive also driven a tuned 1.8T and owned an A4 1.8T with 195. It would be tough to shake the Golf on a straight. plus at high speed it has better aerodynamics.

Jonathan

sunilp

right, but i am referring to the possibility of the golf having been a V6 4 motion. Anyhow, im confused, so whats new?

CharliePsycho

Think about it from the Golf drivers point of view, and not the (things look smaller in) the rear view mirror point of view...

There is this Golf nailing it, bending the floor pan under the right foot and this Scoobie cruises inexorably past and there is *nothing* he can do about it.

Power isn't all about being fired from a gun, and at 100 mph its all about pulling away from people, often it seems very slow from your point of view, it looks very different from the other end!

Steve_Yeowart

Charliephsycho couldn't agree more when ever i'm on the motorway with some muppet in a mondeo or the like up my **** and i move over, he then accelerates to get past i always think it looks fast, it must look pretty damn impressive when someone does this in a scoob

Kevin2000

It must have been some kind of super Golf.An Impreza should have no trouble passing such a car.And heres another thing,I reckon a normally aspirated 200bhp is not as fast as 200bhp achieved with the help of forced induction.

Fosters

I should've taken a photo of it, eh?

It looked like a golf gti - fat wheels, golf shape, GTi badge .

Better get ma coat and hand me keys in at the door!

GP

Kevin2000.. no offence mate, but you've got that the wrong way round.. a 200bhp NA car will pull the pants down a 200bhp turbo car with ease, every time - provided the NA car is decently tuned, that is - which rules out pretty much every car as it leaves the production line nowadays. My track car is an astra with a 210bhp+ 20XE engine, and believe me, it is the equal of much bigger power turbo cars in anything other than an unlimited straightline drag, simply due to the progressive torque curve right up to 7750rpm, which make more power, more of the time.

it's not peak power that matters, it's the % of that peak that is made elsewhere over the rev range that counts - if you were to get the torque curves of the two cars, and calculate the volume under the line (ie. total power over the rev range), the NA car would normally come out on top - this is how Integras and the like seem to be unfeasibly fast with their 187bhp.

I'm not saying that this is always true mind you - there are always exceptions to any rule, and i'm probably over generalising, too , but as a rule of thumb, it's acknowledged that you should add on 10-25% power to a turbo to equal a NA car, on track.

ok I'm done now

GranTurismo

Could it be that when "he pulled in" you it a brick wall of air that we had previously made a nice hole in. IF you are accellerating up the the back of a car you get an advantage due to momentum(as in F1 when the get in the tow) but if you are doing the same speed, when they pull in you need more power to get the same speed as before. The Golf however was already compensating for the drag.

Also a GTI Turbo is not that bad a car. As the GTI pulled in I assume it was overtaking someone and you were waiting behind it. IF this was a "pretend runway" (public road)then it probly felt like a long time.