Micky_C

Hi everyone,

I'm new to Scoobynet but have been into cars for a few years now and on several other car clubs.

I'm considering purchasing a scooby myself but not sure what to go for; it's pretty darn confusing! I think i'm looking for an earlier model (~1992-2002??) but have no idea what is what!

There's a Turbo, a WRX, an STi, Type R, Type RA, Type V, Catalunya, McRae Special, RB5, P1, 22B, 555 WRC...the list goes on!

Could anyone give me a brief overview of each model with what u get, why its better than another, what power they have out the box and (most importantly?) which were UK cars, EU-imports or Jap imports? I'm 21 so i wont be able to afford the insurance on anything overly fancy or imported, but would like to know about them all the same!

Thanks very much in advance-and any pics would be great too! 8)

Trap2Terrorist

iTrader: (3)

A lot depends on how much money you're prepared to spend. I've got a 2001 'bugeye' WRX, better build quality and extras than the classics (pre-2001) but perhaps less of a raw drivers car. It cost just under £10k last May (private sale), with 24k on the clock, totally standard, FSSH.

The bugeye appears to be slightly underpowered compared to other models/years and is fairly heavy at ~1400kgs.

That said, it is a GREAT car and with a few performance tweaks should have everything I need (at least until I trade her in for an STi in a couple of years ).

Extras include: aircon, drivers/passenger/side airbags, power steering, ABS, EBD, 17" alloys, single CD player (crap standard head unit), Momo steering wheel, drilled metal pedals.

Micky_C

Hiya,

I think i'm looking for the more classic shaped Impreza, as it were, like this one:




My budget is around £10k but i'm looking to have less money tied up in a car, so around £8k would be good....

A mate of mine is on here (thats his car above) and i drove his today and it was superb. I was amazed at how smooth the ride etc was for such a taut car! And the power delivery was great too-u could tootle round town happily but give it some welly and away it goes!

Also, i want one where the interior is slightly less "agricultural" shall we say! I've seen some which look similar to the one above outside, but have a really poor dash IMO (rubber gear gaitor etc) so when was this replaced with the (slightly!) better dash that huis has above?? His is a 1999 model IIRC!

Other thing is fuel economy-what sort of figures are we talking in terms of £££/tank/miles on motorway journeys, round town or back lane jaunts??

Thanks

Trap2Terrorist

iTrader: (3)

The whole range changed in 2001 when the exterior and interiors were changed, so anything from 2001 onwards have a much better build quality IMHO.

Fuel economy varies massively depending on driving habits and MPG's are discussed regularly on this forum. As a rough guide, my approx MPG returns are (I'm no boy racer but do like opening her up whenever possible):

Normal driving (to work and back + some 'spirited' driving = 22-24mpg
All motorway driving (<3k rpm's or 78mph) = ~30mpg
Fast driving = 18-22mpg's

Best ever = 30-31mpg
Worst ever = just under 18mpg

(50 litre tank)

Micky_C

Aah right, so fuel economy is a bit hit and miss then! :S Not great with the current fuel prices...!

I believe the dash was revised on the classics at some point, but no idea when..i'm guessing 1997/98 time? The build quality on my friends car is superb as far as i can tell-no rattles etc!

Any idea on my first question, regarding all the many different models there seem to be and specifically which are UK cars!!

Thanks

phelpsa

Standard 2002 bugeye:

Best miles/tank = 300 (steady 75mph all the way back from the Nurburgring)
Worst miles/tank = 150 (fast driving around the Nurburgring)
Average commute miles/tank = 240 (steady 80mph along motorways and a bit of city driving).

phelpsa

Im guessing it was updated in 1997 when it also had a facelift.

Adam

Trap2Terrorist

iTrader: (3)

Not really to be honest, as I said I've only owned mine since May. Always wanted one but never been gen'd up on the different models.

There's pleny of people on here who will be able to help you out though, you may even find someone who's owned most of them at some point!!!

p.s. I forgot to say "welcome".

Rich.

Micky_C

Thanks Rich!

Phelpsa-those fuel figures dont sound too great :S! Maybe the older (lighter) model would be a bit better on the motorway??

phelpsa

Might be but im not sure. 300 miles/tank is very good going for any (turbo) scoob!

Micky_C

How much is a tank thou???

Micky_C

So can anyone help me out with my original question??

There's a Turbo, a WRX, an STi, Type R, Type RA, Type V, Catalunya, McRae Special, RB5, P1, 22B, 555 WRC...the list goes on!

Could anyone give me a brief overview of each model with what u get, why its better than another, what power they have out the box and (most importantly?) which were UK cars, EU-imports or Jap imports?

Favourite so far is the RB5; i dont want anything as distinctive as a P1/22B or as hardcore as a Type-RA but i'm not sure what these models or the others (inc the standard one, WRX and STi!) all have and how they differ?! Surely someone can give me a brief overview?!

UK Turbo:
WRX:
STi:
RB5:
P1:
22B:
McRae:
Catalunya:
555 WRC:
Type-R:
Type-RA:

Cheers!

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

http://www.sidc.co.uk/faq.htm - Everything you're looking for is in here!

Jamesemt

You are looking at around £50 - I ALWAYS get 300 miles to a tank (mixture of commuting and back road blasts...). 03 WRX.

Worth bearing in mind that 1/4 tank on gauge = anything up to 80 miles...

Jap Imports

What sort of Drive do you want.
1. Raw Drive or Taim Drive
2. Classic Look or Bug Eye Look

Micky_C

Thats superb mate! Very indepth so i'll have to read through it all at some point :roll:...!

Going on age alone, the McRae and Catlaunya models are out of the equation already. I believe the Terzo was also pre-facelift so thats out, too.

I'm also after something "subtle" (as scooby's go!) and the P1 and 22B would be too much to insure as well anyway.

So out of the more "basic" models i'm left with, whats the general consensous for the one to go for? Are the Turbo, WRX, STi and RB5 all the same power, and is this 214bhp (most reading 240bhp AFAIK??)?

The RB5 with WR Sport pack seems to be by far the best option for me currently, but it seems to carry a £300+ premium over the standard Turbo model-is the performance in all areas identical, and just cosmetic changes?

Micky_C

1. Tame everyday drive with comfortable, useable performance...nothing outlandish!
2. Classic style

richee

i think cos of your age mate u will only be able to get a uk turbo 2000 . im 29 and that is the only one i can get. an rb5 with the sport pack fitted is same as ppp which u will not get insured on for less than 2k. how many no claims u got mate?

RB5 69

iTrader: (1)

Hi Micky,

Just to add to the points that have been made above ....

The classic Impreza had 2 main facelifts, first in late 96/early97 when the interior was improved (seats mainly) and the engine spec was updated (smaller turbo but more torque).

The second was in late 98 (MY99 cars) where the front bumper was updated, STi4 high level rear spoiler as standard, 4 pot front brakes and larger 295mm discs, other interior improvements (gear gaiter, Momo steering wheel etc), updated engine (215bhp/217lbs/ft torque)

Other changes were made during this time .... MY98 cars got the better 16" 5 spoke wheels (changed for MY00 to nasty looking 6 spokes)

The series McRae cars were pre 96 and so are old spec and few and far between. The Catalunya cars are also quite old now, quite rare but 1st facelift cars. The Terzos are MY98 R/S plate cars but still "old style front bumper" cars.

The best classic shape car to have is the MY99 cars .... for the reasons above but also because the MY00 cars gained poorer wheels and, more importantly, a more "strangled" ECU to bring it in line with ever-tightening emissions regulations .... a PPP of course negates this.

The pre-97 cars have a 11.2 gallon fuel tank, the post-97 cars a 13.2 gallon tank.

Having just driven a 52 plate "bug eye" today I can say that the first impression was a wee bit disappointing BUT pretty much in line with what has been said above. The interior is better quality and the seats excellent .... but the drive just wasnt there. Dosent quite make the same sound as the classic, loads of grip but less actual feel, quite unusual power delivery compared to my classic (particularly at low revs where it was very reluctant .... not the same torque) .... poorer performance but better built!

At 21 I think your insurance is going to be a problem. A UK car is really going to be your only option .... an STi,22B,P1 are out the question.

At 8-10K you would get an early bugeye or a very good late classic. This would also get you a standard RB5. A WR Sport car would be a bit dearer at 10-12K.

The WR Sport car differs to the standard in that it has the Prodrive WRC style rear spoiler and the Prodrive Performance Pack (PPP) which consists of a Prodrive S/S rear silencer and decat centre section, uprated intercooler pipework and a Prodrive ECU. Back in 1999, the standard cost £24995, the WR Sport car £27495 .... and is well worth having now.

The PPP pushes the cars power up from 215bhp @ 5600rpm to 237bhp @ 6000rpm but, more importantly, the torque goes up from 217 lbs/ft @ 4000rpm to 258 lbs/ft @ 3500rpm .... all this gives a (EVO proved) 0-60 time of 5 secs. dead and a 0-100 time of 14.1 secs.

Also remember that the standard RB5 with all its extras is no dearer to insure than the standard car (I know, ive tried it!) but a standard car with loads of extras will cost a fortune to insure! The WR Sport car will be dearer but not by much .... check it out!

For info on the RB5, have a look at www.rb5oc.co.uk .... this will tell you all you need to know and what to look out for. Take your time going through the forums and all your questions will be answered (incl insurance)

As you might have guessed by now, I have an RB5 so am slightly biased!!

Some piccies .... as you asked!!









Cheers,

Norm.

Trap2Terrorist

iTrader: (3)

I have to say Norm, VERY nice looking car.........

Micky_C

richee-just quikcly going onto confused.com i can get quotes for £1500 FC for an RB5 with a tracker or around £1700 without, and thats 21 with 2years NCB! Hopefully get that down near £1200 or less if i stick with my current insurers-they seem to give me one price for all! Wont go any cheaper for a poo car, but doesnt go up for a good one either!

Cheers for all the info Norm-i'm not sure i could get a WR Sport model, but without sound like an irresposnible ****, would they know? I mean, worst case scenario i write it off etc, wont they come along and say "yep, its an RB5 like he said" cos presumably it wont have WR Sports on it, and loads of people have Prodrive stuck on the back anyway! Just a thought, but i'm sure i couldnt tell the difference between a standard RB5 and a PPP one without some serious research first-i'm guessing yours IS a PPP model thou? Looks GORGEOUS mate i have to say! Any higher res pics??

Also, what are the advantages of the RB5 over the typical WRX? I assume power is identical (without the PPP/WR Sport pack?), suspension is the same...is it just colour, badging and different coloured seats?!

RB5 69

iTrader: (1)

Check out the insurance section on the RB5 Owners Club .... http://rb5oc.ipbhost.com/index.php?showforum=8

When I insured my RB5 with Privilege after I got it, the quote was the same as for a standard car, though they did require a tracker!

As ive quoted, the WR Sport car has the PPP and the bigger rear spoiler (like mine) compared to the standard (like the one on your mates car .... really suits the later model alloys by the way!!) The other thing I forgot to add was that the WR Sport cars have "WR Sport" on the speedo. As far as insurance is concerned, the WR Sport cars ar a bit more obvious BUT a standard car with a PPP fitted isnt, the main give away being the single large tailpipe on the exhaust rather than the smaller twin pipes.

The full RB5 spec is shown here .... http://www.rb5oc.co.uk/techspec.asp

Compared to a standard 99 model car, the standard RB5 has the same suspension, brakes and engine. Its main differences to standard are : air con.,unique paint colour, quick shift gearchange, 17" Speedline alloys, PIAA spot lights, blue alcantara seats and Jap spec bodyshell with rear cross brace rather than folding seats.

What you are buying though is a very much more individual car, the only UK car available in what I think is the nicest colour, steel blue (or cool grey on the imports). It may cost more now, but will hold its value better.

As ive said, everything you need to know can be found on the Owners Club.

All Imprezas are special .... its just some are more special than others!!

Micky_C

Thanks very much mate; if i were to get one i'm almost certain it'd be an RB5...been looking at them all day now!

Whats a Jap Spec shell then?? Is it lighter or stiffer than the UK ones? What other UK cars had the Jap Spec shell, if any? Oh, and do the RB's come with a sunroof??

One question thou, and this is where it gets serious-what are they like to run?? If the one i bought was standard i'd prob fit an exhaust system...and thats it! Maybe a dump valve, but that really would be the limit. So, given that, what am i looking at for servicing, mileage from tyres/brakes and most importantly....fuel!!! I do around 14,000 miles a year, half of which is motorway stuff and i'm hoping i'd get over 300 miles out of a £45 tank (standard unleaded is fine for these, i hear?) so does that sound right?

Cheers for all this info buddy!

RB5 69

iTrader: (1)

I think the only difference in the shell was that the standard cars have folding rear seats and a big "hole" from the boot to the inside of the car whereas the RB5 has a solid rear bulkhead and a cross brace .... in theory should be a bit stiffer .... AFAIK the RB5 was the only 4 door UK car to have this (although I stand to be corrected on that!)

The RB5 could be bought with a sunroof (a dealer fit option im sure) but I think only a handful were (3 I think!!) making it a very rare option on an RB5!

Doing the exhaust on an Impreza is probably the easiest and most cost effective way of improving it .... both in terms of sound and performance. Dump valves and induction kits are probably not to be recommended .... can cause too many (and in some cases extremely serious) problems.

The RB5 is the same as any other 99 model UK Impreza to run. If the car has been properly serviced (and this is something that really p***es me off!!) then they should all have had their 6 year/90K miles service (no matter what the actual mileage of the car is!) .... this is a £650 dealer service (full service + cambelt change) so the next few services should be easier on the wallet!

Cost of tyres depend on make .... anything from £65 to £125 a piece. Brakes are relatively cheap as long as you stay away from Subaru parts .... EBC front discs for £180 and Redstuff pads for £90. What mileage you getfrom these is totally dependant on the way you drive and the way the car is set up.

Fuel consumption is a different matter .... I can get 24-25mpg from my PPP car and up to 29mpg on a long motorway drive. I reckon a standard car with a good mix of driving would be good for about 27-28mpg .... again this is totally dependant on the way you drive. A standard RB5 can be run on standard UL but the PPP car has to be run on super UL. At todays prices, £45 would probably be good for about 280 miles.

RB5 69

iTrader: (1)

Have a look at the bottom of http://rb5oc.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1896&hl=

Micky_C

Wow i wish i was in a position to buy right now-prob be another month realistically thou, and thats when (if!) petrol prices ever drop back down! 280 miles to £45 doesnt sound like much fun in all honesty, particularly as i get 450 miles for that in my Focus!

As u say, K&N's and the like dont interest me but i think a nice mild exhaust is a must

What do u mean "the way the car is setup" with regards to tyre/brake wear? Camber etc, or performance? I'd drive it fairly lightly for most the time, just the odd thrash...so 12,000 miles a set reasonable?

Its just the fuel thats the biggest killer for me as i have to do some town driving!

RB5 69

iTrader: (1)

The above car is just an example of whats available .... the best place to find them 2nd hand is on the Owners Club .... plus the history of the car will be known to the members!

To be brutally honest, if you are really concerned about the fuel consumption of the Impreza, it may not be the car for you .... BUT its no worse than any similar performance orientated car. What sort of yearly mileage do you do?

A "mild" exhaust (or a mental one!) is a must .... to unleash that beautiful flat 4 burble!

As far as the brake and tyre wear is concerned .... I meant a bit of both. The car can destroy a set of tyres in a few thousand miles if poorly set up .... but 12k miles would be no problem on a set on a well set up and run car .... same with the brakes!

Micky_C

Well that latter part is promising to know!

I've just typed in some insurance quotes on confused.com; £1500 for a standard 2000 Turbo or £1700 for an RB5 (?) but its better than the £3061 i got quoted for an E36 M3 Coupe or even the £1810 for a 328i Sport (E36 again)!

Fuel economy isnt the biggest worry ever, but its still a concern. I currently do 14-16,000 miles a year, if u can work out what its liekly to cost me?? lol!

RB5 69

iTrader: (1)

Have you tried Privilege for insurance .... dont know how they would be for your age mind you??

14-16,000 miles is a lot, I must admit (ive done more in a year in an Impreza mind you, but not recently!)

That would work out at about .... wait for it .... are you sitting down for this!!

£2200-£2500 a year at todays prices for standard unleaded!!

Micky_C

S-H-I-T LOL!

Are the bugeyed Impreza WRX's any better on fuel??