Fatal Scooby Crash
02 September 2000, 08:26 AM
#1
Looks like the scooby took the corner too fast and ended up on the wrong side of the bend - looks like it skidded. Anyone have the story on this and where/when it happened? Very sad.
02 September 2000, 09:05 AM
#2
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I think this is an example that dick grimes uses in his driving course, if so it happened in essex about a year ago and it was the passenger in the sti that died, also the driver had been on the sidc driving course!!
ray t
ray t
02 September 2000, 11:21 AM
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Nearly all head on crashes at speed are fatal better to drive off the road so long as there are no trees. Trees don't give - they just stop you very quickly indeed.
Limit handling in a 4wd vehicle is dramatically changed on the limit when you lift off mid corner. People are often amazed how easily they spin at MIRA.
Limit handling in a 4wd vehicle is dramatically changed on the limit when you lift off mid corner. People are often amazed how easily they spin at MIRA.
02 September 2000, 01:45 PM
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The car damage looks very similar to an accident I had earlier this year. In my accident the seat belt almost certainly saved my life. Anyone know if the person killed was wearing a seat belt?
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02 September 2000, 07:52 PM
#9
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Just to let you all know the accident happend in the thames vally area recently
it just makes you think ! about what we are doing in our little cell that we drive sometimes on the limit or somtimes not.
Huxley
it just makes you think ! about what we are doing in our little cell that we drive sometimes on the limit or somtimes not.
Huxley
03 September 2000, 04:49 PM
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Nasty. It does make you think. It may not just be your own life you take in your hands when driving fast. Looks like they may have lifted off and then overcorrected the resulting skid. It is a different accident to Dick Grimes example that I saw.
Was it an unfortunate occupant of the other car that died ? The Impreza shell seems to have performed very well in the collision with no apparent damage to the passenger cell. The underlying structure must be a good deal stronger than the flimsy panels they attach to it.
Do you know what the other vehicle was that they hit, you can't tell anymore it is so badly damaged.
'Be careful out there...'
Was it an unfortunate occupant of the other car that died ? The Impreza shell seems to have performed very well in the collision with no apparent damage to the passenger cell. The underlying structure must be a good deal stronger than the flimsy panels they attach to it.
Do you know what the other vehicle was that they hit, you can't tell anymore it is so badly damaged.
'Be careful out there...'
04 September 2000, 03:35 PM
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Someone died in an STI between Bracknell and Maidenhead recently. This may be the vehicle.
Please remember, even if you were as talented as Mr Burns, Mr Burns doesn't have to watch for Mr Makinen coming in the other direction!
Please remember, even if you were as talented as Mr Burns, Mr Burns doesn't have to watch for Mr Makinen coming in the other direction!
04 September 2000, 05:55 PM
#12
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This accident happend in the newbury area last week.and the air ambulance was involved !! (but not needed by the time they got there unfortunatly they were only about 10 - 15 minutes away)
Huxley
Huxley
04 September 2000, 06:20 PM
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Huxley - any idea what the 1st 4 letters of the reg were (T988 ???) I'm sure there aren't that many STI-V typeR's about and my old one was sitting in a garage over near Reading somewhere and it looked exactly like that one...
Dave
Dave
04 September 2000, 10:56 PM
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Yes why cant the wan*** in goverment use the money from speeding fines and not waste it on the crap that they do at the moment and use it to help fund the NHS (Air ambulance etc ) ,Fire Service & Policing so the *******s might be able to get off there ***** and lock away the scumbags that F*** with our Cars !!!
Huxley
I do Know more details of this accident but can't Pass any more due ongoing poilce enquiries the only thing i can say it was a Woman that died in the other Car unfortunalty
[This message has been edited by Huxley (edited 04 September 2000).]
Huxley
I do Know more details of this accident but can't Pass any more due ongoing poilce enquiries the only thing i can say it was a Woman that died in the other Car unfortunalty
[This message has been edited by Huxley (edited 04 September 2000).]
04 September 2000, 11:28 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by PhilBennett:
<B>Talking of air ambulances - Isn't it a p1ss take that these need to be funded by charity.[/quote]
I'm with you on that one Phil. Luckily if anyone in London needs an Air Ambulance they have the generosity of Mr. Branson & Virgin to thank for HEMS, just wish it was the same elsewhere else.
[This message has been edited by Stuart H (edited 04 September 2000).]
<B>Talking of air ambulances - Isn't it a p1ss take that these need to be funded by charity.[/quote]
I'm with you on that one Phil. Luckily if anyone in London needs an Air Ambulance they have the generosity of Mr. Branson & Virgin to thank for HEMS, just wish it was the same elsewhere else.
[This message has been edited by Stuart H (edited 04 September 2000).]
05 September 2000, 07:50 AM
#18
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Sometimes you have to lift off and brake mid corner. If someone coming the other way decides to overtake on a blind bend, you do not have much option.
This may sound mad but when I test a car I like to try braking mid corner because one day I might have to do it for real. I know people enjoy drifting cars etc, but IMHO that should be left to the test track where the ESP or whatever can be switched off & you are in a safe environment with no other road users to worry about.
I haven't tried braking mid corner in a scooby, so I don't know how they behave, but a Lexus was excellent under extreme conditions. The Golf 1.8T that I drove wasn't bad either, but a hired Astra was frightening. My old Mk2 Golf with no electronic gizmos saved my life when I had to brake very hard from 50mph on a bend in the rain.
This may sound mad but when I test a car I like to try braking mid corner because one day I might have to do it for real. I know people enjoy drifting cars etc, but IMHO that should be left to the test track where the ESP or whatever can be switched off & you are in a safe environment with no other road users to worry about.
I haven't tried braking mid corner in a scooby, so I don't know how they behave, but a Lexus was excellent under extreme conditions. The Golf 1.8T that I drove wasn't bad either, but a hired Astra was frightening. My old Mk2 Golf with no electronic gizmos saved my life when I had to brake very hard from 50mph on a bend in the rain.
05 September 2000, 11:05 AM
#19
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Lifting off & braking mid-corner is only a problem if you are on the limit of adhesion. At that point, your options are reduced as you can't just stamp on the brakes. I sometimes practice braking in the distance that I can see, just to make sure my eyes are "calibrated right". (Yes, I check my mirror first! 
)
Driving on the limit when you can see around the corner and have a clear road ahead is one thing, driving on the limit around a blind bend (or series of bends) is quite another.
It's hard to see the skid marks in the pic, it could be the classic lift-off then over-correct manouevre or just a panic stamp on the brakes.
The Astra appears to have a broken windscreen and the steering wheel is pushed forwards, I wonder if the other driver was wearing her seatbelt?
)Driving on the limit when you can see around the corner and have a clear road ahead is one thing, driving on the limit around a blind bend (or series of bends) is quite another.
It's hard to see the skid marks in the pic, it could be the classic lift-off then over-correct manouevre or just a panic stamp on the brakes.
The Astra appears to have a broken windscreen and the steering wheel is pushed forwards, I wonder if the other driver was wearing her seatbelt?
05 September 2000, 11:34 AM
#20
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IMHO looking at the skid marks I can see in the top picture, it looks like he's gone for the 'panic & stamp on the anchors' approach.
Unfortunatley, I have seen too many accidents of this nature and they are usually killed instantly. Sadly in this case even if she was wearing her seatbelt I doubt it was of any use.
And mostly, if not all down to excess speed. Makes you think.........
[This message has been edited by Stuart H (edited 05 September 2000).]
Unfortunatley, I have seen too many accidents of this nature and they are usually killed instantly. Sadly in this case even if she was wearing her seatbelt I doubt it was of any use.
And mostly, if not all down to excess speed. Makes you think.........
[This message has been edited by Stuart H (edited 05 September 2000).]
05 September 2000, 07:22 PM
#21
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I will be trying to get some pictures of the skid marks and the approch from both directions this week sometime if i can get hold of the digital camera from my freind.
Huxley
Huxley
05 September 2000, 09:00 PM
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Press Release as follows
From a local paper
A 63 year old Woman was killed when two cars colided in Harts Hill Road Thatcham on Thursday morning she was a passenger in a Vauxhall Cavalier driven by her husband and was involved i a collision with a silver Subaru just after 9.30pm an inquest will be opened latter this week.
It is belived in local gossip that the silver Subaru has somthing to do with a Car dealer in the area.
Huxley
From a local paper
A 63 year old Woman was killed when two cars colided in Harts Hill Road Thatcham on Thursday morning she was a passenger in a Vauxhall Cavalier driven by her husband and was involved i a collision with a silver Subaru just after 9.30pm an inquest will be opened latter this week.
It is belived in local gossip that the silver Subaru has somthing to do with a Car dealer in the area.
Huxley
07 September 2000, 04:55 AM
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My deepest sympathy to all parties involved.
I'm not sure how many people in the UK die every year in car accidents, but I know that here in the US its over 40,000. These numbers are terribly high, and these thousands and thousands of wonderful mothers, fathers, children- all the well meaning decent people of the world who die, should not die anymore.
I beleive that these deaths- although many caused by driver ignorance or error, are for the most part allowed to occur because of the poor crash-worthiness consumers have to put up with in most all cars built today.
Although cars of 2000' have air bags, and crumple zones which do save lives some of the time, we the consumers have been taken in, into a belief that car manufacturers and governments really care. Sure most exectutives and officals care a fair bit- nobody wants anyone to die, but really care, really put forth the effort and experimentation to make a difference, not on your life!
There is no question that today, right this very moment we have the technology to make cars that can protect their occupants much better than the simple steel unibody cut-outs we buy today. If 40,000 people died every year flying airplanes or riding trains it would not be stood for, nor should this non-sense be stood for reguarding our personal transportation.
Advanced materials such as carbon-fiber can be made affordable if produced in large quantities. Advanced highly absorbing honeycomb materials can be made affordable if simply given the chance to be productionized.
Bottom line- we can make car structures much better able to absorb the force of crashes and save thousands of lives, but currently no manufacturer deems it necessary.
I'm not sure how many people in the UK die every year in car accidents, but I know that here in the US its over 40,000. These numbers are terribly high, and these thousands and thousands of wonderful mothers, fathers, children- all the well meaning decent people of the world who die, should not die anymore.
I beleive that these deaths- although many caused by driver ignorance or error, are for the most part allowed to occur because of the poor crash-worthiness consumers have to put up with in most all cars built today.
Although cars of 2000' have air bags, and crumple zones which do save lives some of the time, we the consumers have been taken in, into a belief that car manufacturers and governments really care. Sure most exectutives and officals care a fair bit- nobody wants anyone to die, but really care, really put forth the effort and experimentation to make a difference, not on your life!
There is no question that today, right this very moment we have the technology to make cars that can protect their occupants much better than the simple steel unibody cut-outs we buy today. If 40,000 people died every year flying airplanes or riding trains it would not be stood for, nor should this non-sense be stood for reguarding our personal transportation.
Advanced materials such as carbon-fiber can be made affordable if produced in large quantities. Advanced highly absorbing honeycomb materials can be made affordable if simply given the chance to be productionized.
Bottom line- we can make car structures much better able to absorb the force of crashes and save thousands of lives, but currently no manufacturer deems it necessary.
07 September 2000, 08:32 AM
#24
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Jeremy,
I agree with much of what you are saying, but is there not a danger that in looking for the levels of safety that I believe you are talking of, the manufacturers will produce vehicles in which the "fun" factor is missing?
As I see it, the States are more obsessive about such things than many European countries. Not saying its good or bad, just that its different.
Unless very blinkered, I would say that most of us are aware that manufacturers put profit first - after all, thats why the build the cars in the first place, not to provide us with safe personal transport.
Your comments about the relative numbers of air deaths to road deaths cannot really be taken in context, though, simply because they are not occuring in the same environment.
I for one would rather take my chances in a car crash than an air crash!
For me, the most important thing is driver attitude, not how crash worthy the cars are. Make cars that safe, and the accident rate would soar because of even greater feelings of invincibility.
Its a hard call, but we pay our money and we take our chances on the roads.
Make the cars safer, but we'll still drive like nutters from time to time. After all, I'd defy anyone on this board to say that they had not driven outwith the bounds of what many would deem safe (and cerainly legal) from time to time.
We drive cars like these (certanly on this side of the pond) because of how fast they are (in some cases extremely so) and how well they handle, largely on a performance to cost basis.
You can't blame the manufacturers for making a profit, only the person in control of the vehicle (or not as the case may be) when it all goes wrong. Clearly maechanical failure is the exception here, but that is happening less and less.
Just my thoughts
D
I agree with much of what you are saying, but is there not a danger that in looking for the levels of safety that I believe you are talking of, the manufacturers will produce vehicles in which the "fun" factor is missing?
As I see it, the States are more obsessive about such things than many European countries. Not saying its good or bad, just that its different.
Unless very blinkered, I would say that most of us are aware that manufacturers put profit first - after all, thats why the build the cars in the first place, not to provide us with safe personal transport.
Your comments about the relative numbers of air deaths to road deaths cannot really be taken in context, though, simply because they are not occuring in the same environment.
I for one would rather take my chances in a car crash than an air crash!
For me, the most important thing is driver attitude, not how crash worthy the cars are. Make cars that safe, and the accident rate would soar because of even greater feelings of invincibility.
Its a hard call, but we pay our money and we take our chances on the roads.
Make the cars safer, but we'll still drive like nutters from time to time. After all, I'd defy anyone on this board to say that they had not driven outwith the bounds of what many would deem safe (and cerainly legal) from time to time.
We drive cars like these (certanly on this side of the pond) because of how fast they are (in some cases extremely so) and how well they handle, largely on a performance to cost basis.
You can't blame the manufacturers for making a profit, only the person in control of the vehicle (or not as the case may be) when it all goes wrong. Clearly maechanical failure is the exception here, but that is happening less and less.
Just my thoughts
D
07 September 2000, 10:00 AM
#25
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Apportion blame where it's due. Most accidents are caused by drivers or pedestrians.
Only under cases such as the Ford Pinto, or more recently the Ford Explorer/Firestone tyre case is the manufacturer directly to blame.
I appreciate that cars are still dangerous and it is possible to design them so that head-on collisions at 70mph are 99% survivable, but it isn't practical. For one thing, that sort of protection costs a <I>lot</I> of money. Secondly, if you make cars stronger and stronger, people simply drive faster and more recklessly to compensate. People have an innate "risk setting" and will drive to it. The safer the car (or road), the faster they drive. Just look at ABS, in over 15 years, it hasn't made the slightest difference to rear-end shunts because people drive closer together.
The end result of blaming the manufacturer for everything is that they stop making the damn things. I still can't believe that Colt has stopped making guns.
It is a cultural thing though. Go to Italy and you're expected to drive fast, brake for a red light and you risk being rear-ended.
It will be much more effective to better educate drivers so that they don't make as many mistakes. Until we do this, people will continue to die needlessly on public roads.
Only under cases such as the Ford Pinto, or more recently the Ford Explorer/Firestone tyre case is the manufacturer directly to blame.
I appreciate that cars are still dangerous and it is possible to design them so that head-on collisions at 70mph are 99% survivable, but it isn't practical. For one thing, that sort of protection costs a <I>lot</I> of money. Secondly, if you make cars stronger and stronger, people simply drive faster and more recklessly to compensate. People have an innate "risk setting" and will drive to it. The safer the car (or road), the faster they drive. Just look at ABS, in over 15 years, it hasn't made the slightest difference to rear-end shunts because people drive closer together.
The end result of blaming the manufacturer for everything is that they stop making the damn things. I still can't believe that Colt has stopped making guns.
It is a cultural thing though. Go to Italy and you're expected to drive fast, brake for a red light and you risk being rear-ended.
It will be much more effective to better educate drivers so that they don't make as many mistakes. Until we do this, people will continue to die needlessly on public roads.
07 September 2000, 06:41 PM
#26
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"I appreciate that cars are still dangerous and it is possible to design them so that head-on collisions at 70mph are 99% survivable, but it isn't practical."
You are right that today it is not practical to design such a structure, just as it was not practical to at first to build cars as safe as they are today, just as it was not practical to use ABS braking systems, airbags etc. Government's eventually forced manufacturers to spend the money and the deed was done.
People who say that manufacturers simply do not have the funds or ability to create exponetially safer structures are in denial of the truth. The truth that with only percentage points of extra money and a spirit to suceed, safer structures can be productionized and produced. It is not a problem.
It is wrong to be presumptuous and tell well-meaning safe drivers- the majority of us, that because there are hooligans about(a very small percentage of drivers), we should not make safer cars. That somehow these people deserve to die!
Last, rigid cars can be made that handle and provide an even finer driving experience than anything we drive today.
You are right that today it is not practical to design such a structure, just as it was not practical to at first to build cars as safe as they are today, just as it was not practical to use ABS braking systems, airbags etc. Government's eventually forced manufacturers to spend the money and the deed was done.
People who say that manufacturers simply do not have the funds or ability to create exponetially safer structures are in denial of the truth. The truth that with only percentage points of extra money and a spirit to suceed, safer structures can be productionized and produced. It is not a problem.
It is wrong to be presumptuous and tell well-meaning safe drivers- the majority of us, that because there are hooligans about(a very small percentage of drivers), we should not make safer cars. That somehow these people deserve to die!
Last, rigid cars can be made that handle and provide an even finer driving experience than anything we drive today.
08 September 2000, 05:37 PM
#27
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UPDATE
It has been confirmed in the local paper that the the Subaru belonged to Hallmarks Direct in Thatcham Berkshire and it's belived that the driver at the time was from Wokingham Berks Police are still investagating
Huxley
It has been confirmed in the local paper that the the Subaru belonged to Hallmarks Direct in Thatcham Berkshire and it's belived that the driver at the time was from Wokingham Berks Police are still investagating
Huxley
10 September 2000, 07:28 PM
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DaveU
How do you know that it is your old car or did you sell your car to Hallmarks Direct ?
I drove up and down the road at the seen of the accident today and still cant see how he managed to f*** things up so bad you can go like a dingbat round those bends without to much trouble at all.
Ps. Still makes you think !!
Huxley
How do you know that it is your old car or did you sell your car to Hallmarks Direct ?
I drove up and down the road at the seen of the accident today and still cant see how he managed to f*** things up so bad you can go like a dingbat round those bends without to much trouble at all.
Ps. Still makes you think !!
Huxley
11 September 2000, 12:35 AM
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Yes - I p/exd the Scooby for the Skyline at Hallmarks in January. I'm currently selling the Skyline (in TopMarques) so i check the press every week to see what's going on. I notice every week that they haven't sold it. I know they haven't got it now though.
Really does make you think!
The TypeR's don't have ABS and it's quite easy to lock the wheels if you're being overly enthusiastic.
[This message has been edited by DaveU (edited 11 September 2000).]
Really does make you think!
The TypeR's don't have ABS and it's quite easy to lock the wheels if you're being overly enthusiastic.
[This message has been edited by DaveU (edited 11 September 2000).]