SIDC @ Brands Hatch 21st Oct .....What ?
12 July 2000, 04:52 PM
#1
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Have had the flyer for Brands Hatch Track Day on 21st Oct. Great I thought, then I read the back and have a couple of questions...
1. What is an ARD`s Registered driver and why does he/she need to be to take passengers ?
2. Why do I have to have track insurance at extra expense to me.Its a race track isnt it ?
3. Why are ACU and MSA licences not accepted ? It`s a race track isn`t it ?
The first two questions get me the third is just me being picky.
K
1. What is an ARD`s Registered driver and why does he/she need to be to take passengers ?
2. Why do I have to have track insurance at extra expense to me.Its a race track isnt it ?
3. Why are ACU and MSA licences not accepted ? It`s a race track isn`t it ?
The first two questions get me the third is just me being picky.
K
12 July 2000, 05:21 PM
#2
I thought it was on the 27th October ?
ARDS people are those who are qualified to teach on a race track, and have undergone the necessary training. Not sure what it stands for (Advanced Race Driver School ???)
Not sure about the track insurance. I'll probably try and get a low cost group cover sorted out through Egger Lawson for us.
I'm planning to travel down from Scotland, bringing a few friends as well (all Scooby owners). Should be great fun, and places are very limited I believe (50 I think ?), so you had better book up quick if you want a place!
ARDS people are those who are qualified to teach on a race track, and have undergone the necessary training. Not sure what it stands for (Advanced Race Driver School ???)
Not sure about the track insurance. I'll probably try and get a low cost group cover sorted out through Egger Lawson for us.
I'm planning to travel down from Scotland, bringing a few friends as well (all Scooby owners). Should be great fun, and places are very limited I believe (50 I think ?), so you had better book up quick if you want a place!
12 July 2000, 11:41 PM
#3
My interpretation of Point 2 is that "Brands Hatch etc" & "SIDC" are not responsible for any damage to your car, so therefore, its wise to sort out your own.
On another more contentious reading, IF you were a w@nky driver and blatantly stomped into my car and it was totally your fault, I would probably feel agrieved and might look to have my car repaired at your expense. This is not BTCC / bumper-cars stuff, we all work to pay for our cars / fun and having it spoilt by a idiot is not acceptable. Taking it further, if you were to injure another person ( & were at fault) then expect to pay for it OR have insurance to cover it.
Brands Hatch etc & SIDC ensure you sign a dislaimer totally abrogating them from any responsibilty for any damage to you or another party. It makes sense if you insure against damage to you, your car or another party as well. Insurance is cheap compared to the alternative - I should know, as my wife is a solicitor for a Plaintiff Personal Injury practice - she sues for a living.
Anyway, book up, get the insurance & I'll see you there
On another more contentious reading, IF you were a w@nky driver and blatantly stomped into my car and it was totally your fault, I would probably feel agrieved and might look to have my car repaired at your expense. This is not BTCC / bumper-cars stuff, we all work to pay for our cars / fun and having it spoilt by a idiot is not acceptable. Taking it further, if you were to injure another person ( & were at fault) then expect to pay for it OR have insurance to cover it.
Brands Hatch etc & SIDC ensure you sign a dislaimer totally abrogating them from any responsibilty for any damage to you or another party. It makes sense if you insure against damage to you, your car or another party as well. Insurance is cheap compared to the alternative - I should know, as my wife is a solicitor for a Plaintiff Personal Injury practice - she sues for a living.
Anyway, book up, get the insurance & I'll see you there
13 July 2000, 12:46 AM
#4
I've talked to Egger Lawson, and they are going to give us a special quote for insurance @ Brands Hatch.
It will be for about £12.5k cover, with around £750XS. They are going to do some more investigations (look back at claims from previous events and evaluate the risks in detail), and get back to me next week. I'll let you know the full details once they get back to me
It will be for about £12.5k cover, with around £750XS. They are going to do some more investigations (look back at claims from previous events and evaluate the risks in detail), and get back to me next week. I'll let you know the full details once they get back to me
13 July 2000, 09:51 AM
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Seems a bit expensive?
If I take my girlfriend - who will not be driving it will cost me £240?
Hmmmmm... Oct 27th - so it will be rained out then - why cant SIDC come up with better dates! - or would it have been very expensive for a sensible date - say in July/Aug/September?
Dont see why I need a license - after all its a private race track - not a public highway!
The disclaimer is not legal - if you die, under the Unfair Contracts terms Act!
You dont need track insurance - after all your not racing! - just me being cyncical!
They cant ask you to prove you have the insurance - guess its wise to have it though
If I take my girlfriend - who will not be driving it will cost me £240?
Hmmmmm... Oct 27th - so it will be rained out then - why cant SIDC come up with better dates! - or would it have been very expensive for a sensible date - say in July/Aug/September?
Dont see why I need a license - after all its a private race track - not a public highway!
The disclaimer is not legal - if you die, under the Unfair Contracts terms Act!
You dont need track insurance - after all your not racing! - just me being cyncical!
They cant ask you to prove you have the insurance - guess its wise to have it though
13 July 2000, 10:04 AM
#6
Steve
Trackside spectators go free! No passengers tho'.
I seem to remember Rob Mac @ Donnington stating that the highway code & speed limits etc still applied to the track! (But obviously not enforced
)
It is cheaper to have someone die than be permanently injured. Your dependants can sue, but this would be proportional to your previous income (until retirement) & time limited in the case of kids.
Trackside spectators go free! No passengers tho'.
I seem to remember Rob Mac @ Donnington stating that the highway code & speed limits etc still applied to the track! (But obviously not enforced
)It is cheaper to have someone die than be permanently injured. Your dependants can sue, but this would be proportional to your previous income (until retirement) & time limited in the case of kids.
13 July 2000, 10:06 AM
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This may be a silly question, but are motorcycle helmets acceptable/BS6658A rated or does it have to be a special "car helmet" or something?
I know you can't use a car helmet on a motorbike (due to the lack of cutaway at the neck base potentially causing spinal injuries), but is the reverse applicable?
Neil. (Booked in for Brands but a track virgin)
I know you can't use a car helmet on a motorbike (due to the lack of cutaway at the neck base potentially causing spinal injuries), but is the reverse applicable?
Neil. (Booked in for Brands but a track virgin)
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13 July 2000, 10:42 AM
#9
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I am already paying for the track time . I know the risks involved . Why on earth would I want to pay any more just in case I have a touch. £120 is a hell of a lot of money for one day + the cost of tyres , brakes and petrol. Dont get me wrong I love it BUT why is it becoming such a pain in the **** to do a simple track day. Not just for cars but also for bikes.
I dont hold the SIDC responsible at all. They have to bide by the rules set by Brands otherwise its no track day at all thank you very much.
It also seems poor that no passengers are allowed. I recently did Brands with another company and it was no problem to take passengers. Why the change?
Being very cynical , but why do a track day when I can get up early, lets say on a sunday morning,go out and blast my car around the deserted lanes. I have insurance , I can take as many passengers as I like and I dont have to stump up £120 for the priviledge.
As far as insurance goes. I have anti litigation cover on both household and work insurance , wont that do ?
K ( Mr Cynical )
P.S. No one has answered point 3 yet !
I dont hold the SIDC responsible at all. They have to bide by the rules set by Brands otherwise its no track day at all thank you very much.
It also seems poor that no passengers are allowed. I recently did Brands with another company and it was no problem to take passengers. Why the change?
Being very cynical , but why do a track day when I can get up early, lets say on a sunday morning,go out and blast my car around the deserted lanes. I have insurance , I can take as many passengers as I like and I dont have to stump up £120 for the priviledge.
As far as insurance goes. I have anti litigation cover on both household and work insurance , wont that do ?
K ( Mr Cynical )
P.S. No one has answered point 3 yet !
13 July 2000, 11:17 AM
#10
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I have now recieved the confirmation for my place at Brands Hatch.
On the form it say,
"As a reminder , please eunsure that the 'requirements for the day' are fully met otherwise you will not be allowed to participate and refunds will not be given".
In the application form it notes that insurance is required.
So from this I would be wise to assume that on arrival that proff of insurance is required otherwise entry to the track is not permitted.
I have spoken to Brands Hatch and they have a number of helmets to loan on the day f.o.c.
Just a further note on the insurance I spoke to Eggar Lawson and they are providing cover for the day at £55.00 for £6500 of damage to your own car, that is to say that if you hit someone else that cannot claim of your insurance you can only claim for the damage to your own car. The excess is £750.
Grant
On the form it say,
"As a reminder , please eunsure that the 'requirements for the day' are fully met otherwise you will not be allowed to participate and refunds will not be given".
In the application form it notes that insurance is required.
So from this I would be wise to assume that on arrival that proff of insurance is required otherwise entry to the track is not permitted.
I have spoken to Brands Hatch and they have a number of helmets to loan on the day f.o.c.
Just a further note on the insurance I spoke to Eggar Lawson and they are providing cover for the day at £55.00 for £6500 of damage to your own car, that is to say that if you hit someone else that cannot claim of your insurance you can only claim for the damage to your own car. The excess is £750.
Grant
13 July 2000, 01:04 PM
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Puff/James
You said "Bike helmets normally exceed car requirements."
This is not entirely true. A motorcycle helmet is designed to protect against one impact ie your head nutting the road. A racing car helmet is design to protect against multiple impacts eg if a car is in a roll you may hit your head a number of times with the same amount of impact force. This is why car helmets are so expensive.
Mark
You said "Bike helmets normally exceed car requirements."
This is not entirely true. A motorcycle helmet is designed to protect against one impact ie your head nutting the road. A racing car helmet is design to protect against multiple impacts eg if a car is in a roll you may hit your head a number of times with the same amount of impact force. This is why car helmets are so expensive.
Mark
13 July 2000, 01:35 PM
#12
Mark
Forgive me if I posted without making myself totally clear. I actually meant that if you had/were to buy a motorcycle helmet then more than likely the specification would meet/exceed the minimum car specification as required on this ocaison by Brands Hatch & that Silver & Gold stickers were an indication of the further quality of the helmet.
Not sure about the cost thing though. I think that it is more a scale of economics in that it is cheaper to produce 150,000 bike helmets as opposed to 10,000 car helmets. Design & materials are similar, its just the RRP required to recoup those initial charges & make a profit.
Forgive me if I posted without making myself totally clear. I actually meant that if you had/were to buy a motorcycle helmet then more than likely the specification would meet/exceed the minimum car specification as required on this ocaison by Brands Hatch & that Silver & Gold stickers were an indication of the further quality of the helmet.
Not sure about the cost thing though. I think that it is more a scale of economics in that it is cheaper to produce 150,000 bike helmets as opposed to 10,000 car helmets. Design & materials are similar, its just the RRP required to recoup those initial charges & make a profit.
13 July 2000, 03:15 PM
#14
Greg,
this will only be for the Brands hatch event. Give them a call on 0115 941 5255 and speak to Nik Kershaw. Tell him I sent you and he'll sort out suitable cover for you at Silverstone.
The cost of cover depends on a number of things:
The type of cars taking part (tail happy TVRs are a higher risk, and cost more to repair).
The circuit (some are a lot more prone to expensive claims than others)
The driver (you'll pay a higher premium if it's your first track day, as you are an unknown risk)
Historical record - if the organising club has a poor record (several claims per event), then premiums will be heavily loaded, especially if they are expensive claims!
The amount of cover you want, and the excess on each claim
The type of track event - in open track events, drivers tend to do fewer laps more often, so less risk of brakes & tyres overheating.
The number of participants (more on track = higher risk of two coming together).
There are other factors like profit involved as well. A typical claim will cost more than than was taken in for premiums for the event, and they'll need a run of several events without claims just to break even.
Anyway, enough boring stuff about insurance, just give them a call. They are nice people and deal with claims very efficiently should you ever need to use them.
this will only be for the Brands hatch event. Give them a call on 0115 941 5255 and speak to Nik Kershaw. Tell him I sent you and he'll sort out suitable cover for you at Silverstone.
The cost of cover depends on a number of things:
The type of cars taking part (tail happy TVRs are a higher risk, and cost more to repair).
The circuit (some are a lot more prone to expensive claims than others)
The driver (you'll pay a higher premium if it's your first track day, as you are an unknown risk)
Historical record - if the organising club has a poor record (several claims per event), then premiums will be heavily loaded, especially if they are expensive claims!
The amount of cover you want, and the excess on each claim
The type of track event - in open track events, drivers tend to do fewer laps more often, so less risk of brakes & tyres overheating.
The number of participants (more on track = higher risk of two coming together).
There are other factors like profit involved as well. A typical claim will cost more than than was taken in for premiums for the event, and they'll need a run of several events without claims just to break even.
Anyway, enough boring stuff about insurance, just give them a call. They are nice people and deal with claims very efficiently should you ever need to use them.
13 July 2000, 04:03 PM
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Hi KRIS and others
Here's the answers you need...
1. ARDS instructors are qualified to teach and will be familiar with the circuit. We are trying te get a waiver on this, but it is unlikely. The cost is per car, so if your wife also wants to drive, then all she needs to do is register at the circuit. The maximum number of drivers is 2 per car.
2. Speak to your road insurance company, as many cover you for track days for a small fee, some charge nothing. At track speeds, an off is rarely "having a touch" and the armco at Brands should not be challenged!!
The SIDC will have public liabilty insurance in place, which will cover accidental damage to landowners property and spectators.
3. Its OK for you to hold an ACU or MSA license, but you will still need to produce your DVLA license to gain access to the track.
I was invited to drive Brands last year (full GP circuit). It was a life time ambition for me, as I fondly remember when my late father used to take me there to see Grand Prix' as a young lad. It more than lived up to my expectations.
We have the Indy circuit booked, as we did not think we would get enough participants to cover the £17,500 +vat for the full circuit. Plus... the GP circuit is an incredibly dangerous place, with lots of camber changes, no gravel traps and armco far too close for any sort of mistake. ie... not a place for track virgins.
The Indy is much safer, with gravel and plenty of room at the places where a mistake is most likely. You can still have a damaging off (no track is completely safe) so as always, book some instructor time and take it easy.
KRIS in answer to why you can't just go and drive at the same speeds on a Sunday morning... you can, but you may well lose your license and could injure an innocent party if the unexpected happens. What makes trackdays safer, is that the surface is clean and predictable, you know that nothing is coming the other way and everyone else is driving at a similar speed with similiar concentration.
Neil, your bike helmet is a type A and is perfectly acceptable.
Here's the answers you need...
1. ARDS instructors are qualified to teach and will be familiar with the circuit. We are trying te get a waiver on this, but it is unlikely. The cost is per car, so if your wife also wants to drive, then all she needs to do is register at the circuit. The maximum number of drivers is 2 per car.
2. Speak to your road insurance company, as many cover you for track days for a small fee, some charge nothing. At track speeds, an off is rarely "having a touch" and the armco at Brands should not be challenged!!
The SIDC will have public liabilty insurance in place, which will cover accidental damage to landowners property and spectators.
3. Its OK for you to hold an ACU or MSA license, but you will still need to produce your DVLA license to gain access to the track.
I was invited to drive Brands last year (full GP circuit). It was a life time ambition for me, as I fondly remember when my late father used to take me there to see Grand Prix' as a young lad. It more than lived up to my expectations.
We have the Indy circuit booked, as we did not think we would get enough participants to cover the £17,500 +vat for the full circuit. Plus... the GP circuit is an incredibly dangerous place, with lots of camber changes, no gravel traps and armco far too close for any sort of mistake. ie... not a place for track virgins.
The Indy is much safer, with gravel and plenty of room at the places where a mistake is most likely. You can still have a damaging off (no track is completely safe) so as always, book some instructor time and take it easy.
KRIS in answer to why you can't just go and drive at the same speeds on a Sunday morning... you can, but you may well lose your license and could injure an innocent party if the unexpected happens. What makes trackdays safer, is that the surface is clean and predictable, you know that nothing is coming the other way and everyone else is driving at a similar speed with similiar concentration.
Neil, your bike helmet is a type A and is perfectly acceptable.
13 July 2000, 07:54 PM
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Thanks for that Pete, No offence intended and I`m sure none was taken but I am Mr cynical !
The point about speeding on the road is an obvious one BUT if you add the cost of track day insurance to the premium for the day it does make it jolly expensive. As we have seen by the previous posts this ` insurance ` only covers the specific car i.e. not the car you crash into. So if this is the case WHY is it essential to have this insurance, it seems pointless.
Even if I smash into someone else car ( heaven forbid )I am not covered for their damage.I fail to see why this insurance is thus required ?
I have just spent the whole of today and some of this evening with two bike track days and no one has mentioned track insurance. Surely theres more chance of having an `off` on a bike ?
PETE , how do you get a waiver for the passenger rule ? Does the SIDC have to fulfill
certain criteria ? My other half wont be at all happy having to stand in pit lane while I hoon about the race track !
K
The point about speeding on the road is an obvious one BUT if you add the cost of track day insurance to the premium for the day it does make it jolly expensive. As we have seen by the previous posts this ` insurance ` only covers the specific car i.e. not the car you crash into. So if this is the case WHY is it essential to have this insurance, it seems pointless.
Even if I smash into someone else car ( heaven forbid )I am not covered for their damage.I fail to see why this insurance is thus required ?
I have just spent the whole of today and some of this evening with two bike track days and no one has mentioned track insurance. Surely theres more chance of having an `off` on a bike ?
PETE , how do you get a waiver for the passenger rule ? Does the SIDC have to fulfill
certain criteria ? My other half wont be at all happy having to stand in pit lane while I hoon about the race track !
K
17 July 2000, 01:03 PM
#19
Kris
My missus doesn't want to be anywhere near me when I'm going round a track - she cares!
On the insurance front, its something I'd do anyway & if all goes to plan, it'll only be about £50. Therefore £170+ petrol/tyres for a whole day having a blast round Brands. OK for me
BTW, I'm not the scooby equivalent of a RUB (Rich Urban Biker) but I work hard & every now & then want to play hard. Its getting more dangerous on the open road anyway & a day's legalised safe speeding has got to be worth it (IMHO)
My missus doesn't want to be anywhere near me when I'm going round a track - she cares!
On the insurance front, its something I'd do anyway & if all goes to plan, it'll only be about £50. Therefore £170+ petrol/tyres for a whole day having a blast round Brands. OK for me
BTW, I'm not the scooby equivalent of a RUB (Rich Urban Biker) but I work hard & every now & then want to play hard. Its getting more dangerous on the open road anyway & a day's legalised safe speeding has got to be worth it (IMHO)
17 July 2000, 03:52 PM
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As a wise man once said 'look in the mirror and ask yourself if you can afford a new car, if you cannot truthfully answer yes, then don't play on the track' Pretty good theory, and for a while one I will stick to, thus this prempts my question.
Whats the deal if I just want to come along, in the Wagon of course, and just watch n chat??? is it still the 120 quid? will I be allowed to park car somewhere else and then go in the pits???
Whats the deal if I just want to come along, in the Wagon of course, and just watch n chat??? is it still the 120 quid? will I be allowed to park car somewhere else and then go in the pits???
17 July 2000, 05:09 PM
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Puff, sounds like a laff, I'll see if I can book the day off first! got some hectic months ahead at work, so might not be able to get the day.
As for being your 'mechanic' well thanks, as long as word don't get around, someone might actually think that I know one end of a spanner from the other
As for being your 'mechanic' well thanks, as long as word don't get around, someone might actually think that I know one end of a spanner from the other
17 July 2000, 05:39 PM
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lots and lots of lol! 
Seriously though, I guess that all the drivers would be in the pit lane? or is there somewhere else where they would be and we could chat. I'm not going to want to stand around on my own looking like a complete pleb!
Seriously though, I guess that all the drivers would be in the pit lane? or is there somewhere else where they would be and we could chat. I'm not going to want to stand around on my own looking like a complete pleb!
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