Neil Smalley

Just seen bush answering questions on TV(just after the phone call to NY). I really hope I misread what he was saying???

Key points.
1. He has not singled out this act of terrorism as the basis for retaliation. ALL terrorism is now the scope.
2. Forget about education,the economy etc etc the main focus of his administration, is this 'war'
3. He is building an alliance of nation to help in this war.
4. Nations that harbour terrorists will be regarded as the enemy in this 'war'
5. When asked about Pakistans and Afganistan offer of assistance he replied 'We shall have to see what that means won't we'
6. He mentioned 'whooping' terroism twice.Note: not the people who carried out this act, but terrorism full stop.

Does this sound VERY worrying to anyone else?

My take on it is that soon Bush and the alliance will attack countries that refuse to hand over all terrorists, and will do so until they do

[This message has been edited by Neil Smalley (edited 13 September 2001).]

Jake

Errr Yes

Neil Micklethwaite

Would he be including the IRA in that?.

If so will he rounding the Irish support up in NYC and the rest of the States ?

Does he regard his own country as the enemy for harbouring IRA Terrorists ?

This is all MHO of course.

BigPicture

> > In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
> > Two Brothers [WTC?] torn apart by Chaos,
> > while the fortess [pentagon?] endures,
> > the great leader will succumb.
> > The third big war will begin when the big city is burning.
> >
> > In the year of the new century and nine months,
> > From the sky will come a great King of Terror...
> > The sky will burn at forty-five degrees.
> > Fire approaches the great new city....
> >
> > -Nostradamus 1654
> >
> >
> > 2001 is the first year of the new century and this is the 9th month.
> > New York is located at the 45th degree Latitude. We going to war?

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Neil Smalley:
<B>
Does this sound VERY worrying to anyone else?
[/quote]

Yes, it does. I'm in the US on business right now, desperately trying to find a flight home before Bush actually declares war on anybody. I'm scared stiff.

How long does it take to get across the Atlantic by sea?

Andy.

ptholt

I have to admit i was wondering what the awful act on NYC will have on American fundraisers for Irish terrorists. Specially seeing as Boston has a large Irish community as well, i've wondered this for the last few days, just didnt want to be the first to imply it.


I work in southampton and live in Brighton and i saw some things on the way home last night that did very little for my confidence and lent weight to the Guardians report this morning (that nato later denied).

SimonH

Can we please stop quoting poorly translated and irrelevant tracts of Nostradamus? Thank you.

ptholt - what did you see last night that did little for your confidence?

ptholt

How can i put this....................

lets just say rush hour traffic heading home was not the only things i saw heading portsmouth bound on the motorway last night.......

SimonH

Despite the statements of support from the UK and NATO for the US there has, as yet, been no request for <I>military</I> assistance or action from the Americans.

Once they have assembled the evidence the US will act. I also believe that the scale and intensity of their actions will certainly "surprise" those terrorist groups who for many years felt safe behind America's dislike of commiting their forces against such targets.

UK Military plc is currently involved in the largest peacetime exercise for many years out in Oman (Ex Saif Sarea II). This exercise has been planned for ages and means that a very large amount of men and materiel has been/is being moved out to the Gulf region. This may well have been what you saw trundling down to pompey.

Given my particular line of work I can assure you that we are not mobilising for war! In fact, my main worry at the moment is whether or not I can afford to get a PPP done on the scoob....

Pete_UK99

If you've got Word try this out. Freaky.

Follow these instructions.

1. Go into Word
2. In capitals type NYC
3. Highlight the NYC
4. Change the font to Webdings
5. See the result

6. Now change the font to Wingdings
7. See the result.

Weird?

Neil Smalley

It'll take ages to get things rolling if all out war against terrorists is going to happen.

It took months to build the coalition against saddam in the Gulf War. I suspect such an operation will take similar time.


There are reports that Bin Laden has been arrested. This may be a smokescreen, but if I were smart in a evil, twisted way and did'nt care if I lived or died I would give myself up and become a matyr for my cause, in the full knowledge that I had 20 other mini Bin Laden's waiting in the wings. The US will find it hard to gain support if the main focus of thier attacks has been bought to justice.


[This message has been edited by Neil Smalley (edited 13 September 2001).]

Shark

One thing is for sure, their (and our) reslove to see it through.

One US senator said -

'..... God may have mercy on them, but we won't'

David

pslewis

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Neil Smalley:
[B]Just seen bush answering questions on TV(just after the phone call to NY). I really hope I misread what he was saying???

My take on it is that soon Bush and the alliance will attack countries that refuse to hand over all terrorists, and will do so until they do

---------------------------------------------

You have a problem with that??????

Because I CERTAINLY do NOT - kick ****, kick it hard and mean it until you are the last man standing ......... its time for the timid to run and hide, the real men will do the job for them as always.

I have been assisting in the design of weapons of varying capability for destruction all my working life ..... its about time we tested them.

When the Alliance attacks alongside an angry USA there will be no hiding place

Pete

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Subtle as ever PS.......

Neil Smalley

Many across the world feel as you do, and to some degree it IS justified.

However my thoughts, concerns and prayers go to those who will die in what looks to be, if not a new world war but a widespread,long lasting and multi continent conflict.

I Think of the sons,daughters,fathers and mothers who will die in what is to come. I know those killed in the attack had no choice in the matter, I understand that. But no amount of blood spilled will bring them back.

What does sicken me, in the bloodlust that seems to be building up.

We built the weapons let's see what they'll do. Let's nuke em till they glow.

In case we forget, it's not pretty fireworks when bombs go off. That flash of smoke and fire is someone's life being extinguished, someone's hopes and dreams being destroyed.

I heard people say on Tuesday how cool it looked seeing that aircraft slamming into the WTC towers. I hear people commenting that for years the USA has been giving the IRA money to blow up our women and children and so it's about time they reaped what they had sown.

This is'nt a video game or a movie real people, with real families have died. AND many more will do so, regardless of what race and country they came from.

Sure, bring those responsible for it to justice, I have no issue with that. What I do have an issue with is the further spilling of innocent blood to satisfy some primal desire for vengence.

They hurt us, so we hurt them back
they hurt us back, so we retaliate
and so on and so on and so on until there is a circle of blood letting and revenge that can never be broken.

The only way to stop this is not to start it. I fear however that the day of the dove is over, and the hawks are circling to attack

[This message has been edited by Neil Smalley (edited 13 September 2001).]

Chris L

As one observer in the States said: "Rockets can destroy buildings, but they can't destroy fanaticism" or words to that effect.

I'm sure that the US will hit somebody very hard (I personally would not like to be anywhere near Afghanistan at this moment in time), but you would think that they would have learnt from their own bitter experience in Vietnam and Russia's problems also in Afghanistan. Being a super power is no guarantee of victory. Fighting an 'invisible' enemy is nearly impossible.

I suspect that Mr Bush has set himself an almost impossible task, by saying that he will defeat terrorism. Just one more example of Bush opening his mouth before engaging his brain - you could sense his aids wincing as he said those words. I wish him all the luck in the world, but realistically he hasn't got a hope in hells chance.

Chris

Gastro

Pete...... you *really are* become more lucid in your old age......well said.

Gastro

P1 500bhp

World War 3 is about to start!

It is coming, no one can stop what is about to happen! Be scared, Run for your lives!

Save yourselves whilst you can!

I off to Brazil to hide!

SimonH

Oh okay, I'm off to Tiley's to get my car serviced...

Stelios

Wasnt Bin Laden trained by the CIA to resist the russkies? And the Kaboul Talibans financed by the US against them as well?

LeoneTurbo

Running away from the inevitable? Looks like this might affect us all on this ****ed-up planet...

Have to plan my next outing to the 'Ring before it's too late .

rsquire

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Have to plan my next outing to the 'Ring before it's too late <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahh the voice of sanity

People.. the real way to defeat these insects is to carry on life as normal and NOT to let them destroy our way of life..

Richard

Adam M

Chris,

the difference in vietnam, is that they were concerned for the people fighting for democracy, and wanted to erradicate the commuinsts. This time I dont think they will rule out blankte bombing the whole country. That way, they cannot miss, and that is teh scary thing.

I have to say I agree with Neil on this one. But I think there should be a display of retaliation to say don't **** with our innocent citizens.

This act has to be avenged, but I think this desire for blood shed could be the end of us.

Regardless of how Pslewis feels,

statements such as "I have been assisting in the design of weapons of varying capability for destruction all my working life ..... its about time we tested them."

Scare me. Weapons should be there as a deterrent, not to give someone some sick pleasure by measuring how much they can destroy.

I am sorry but attitudes like will lead us to world war 3, and in this day an age, that could well be the end of man.

No restraint, no moral issues, full scale nuclear fall out, if we arent burned to death by the chemical weapons or starved for hundreds of years by the biological destruction of crops, let alone the festering illnesses that could rain down on us.

Pete Croney

I think the talk of nukes is greatly exagerated.

This is not how it will be done.

I suspect that there are already small groups of special forces in Afganistan, holed up, watching and waiting. Their actions will come as just a surprise to a small number of people, as did the actions of their followers to the people of New York.

With these people removed, there will be aid programmes and a "hearts and minds" programme established.

If someone values their life as worth less than their cause, the only way of winning this is through education. Threats will not work and genocide will only enrage.

But first the indoctrinators MUST be removed.

BarryK

It was 3 years in the planning to shift the *****.

And au contraire, a lot of blood shed did root out fanaticism (aka Nazism).

What is the difference between fighting that evil and fighting this one?

Ditto Japan. But without the atomic weapons which at that time were not really understood, except as a showstopper.

They must take their time and do it right. I suspect they will do it WW2 style, with wholesale occupation of territories where the enemy is within.

That is why all the tough talking hard nut usual players are crapping themselves. There will be no place to hide.

And furthermore, waht about these to$$ers on benefit in the UK badmouthing the USA and its friends, publicly. Ship 'em out to where they will be happy. One cheeky get is an armless one eyed Afghan who lost his limbs etc fighting the Russians. Time he went home then, to be supported by the Afghan benefit system eh?

Oh and any German terrorists with a grudge against USA, Britain, France and former Soviet Union, please feel free to mention your town being flattened in 1945. That'll be OK then.

Neil Smalley

Pete,

Agreed.

I do however think that the US will do something big and on a large scale to appease the people at home. The people will want to see the explosions on TV, not just hear that 1000 cruise missiles have been fired. I've been speaking to a few Americans over the last few days. By and large, amoung the ordinary person the attitude is nuke the mother F**kers. That kind of attitude is hard to ignore by a government that got in by the skin of it's teeth and has staked it's reputation on dealing with this.

The US govt cannot legally assasinate people until war has been declared. I believe this is why 'war' has been mentioned so often. This is why I think that there are, as you say teams already in place.

After WW2 the Allies, led by the British quietly and with little fuss disposed of members of the **** party that had not been rounded up for trial.

The best way to deal with this IS on the QT, and as you say offer to help those countries out as a thank you.

Why not just say to the Taleban we will give you 5Bn in aid if you hand over Bin Laden. That goes up to 20Bn if you give us the whole lot of them. I think they would find that kinda money hard to resist.

Disco

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>One cheeky get is an armless one eyed Afghan who lost his limbs etc fighting the Russians. Time he went home then, to be supported by the Afghan benefit system eh?
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

....and the only reason this @rsehole has the opportunity to say these things in this country is because of the freedom the US and its allies secured for us!!!

daved6

Glad to see that we can rely on you boys for some intellectual imput

Gary Foster

I agree with Pete, how many Terrorists were involved in this group ? 20 ? 200 ? 500 ? so the blanket bombing and inevitable 1000's of innocent casualties would make us as bad as them.

Better to remove a disease with a scalpel, than cutting of the offending limb with a chainsaw.

Special Forces and good intelligence are the answer.

Gary