wilf

I stand corrected What Car site says kerb weight of 2.0 litre 3 door Zetec is 1125.

wall

From today Ford press release (can be seen on various sites eg. 4car):

Focus RS
hp - 220
torque - 300Nm
0to60 - 6.4s
top speed - 140 electronically limited(!!!)
fwd weighting about 1250kg
brakes f 325mm 4-pots Brembos, r 280mm 2-pots

WRXmy012
hp - 215 (225 with simple backbox mod)
torque - 295Nm
0to60 - 5.9s
top speed - 140
4wd weighting about 1400kg
brakes f 295mm 4-pots, r 290mm 2-pots

So, for those of us in the market in the next few months, speculations what will be the faster B-road tool?

*confused*

Wall

Chris J

Although 0-60 time isn't really a good judgement of performance, I would have thought it would be a bit faster than 6.4.

Whats the price?

Chris

dingy

Recent tests

The Focus lapped rockingham faster.

One point. Fords are usually easier to Mod than the scoob.

wilf

Unless considerable weight saving has been going on I cannot see how the Focus can weigh 1250kg. I recall the standard 1.6 Focus weighs the wrong side of 1300kg and it doesn't have all the beefed up bits and heavier motor. More like 1450kg for the Focus RS if you ask me which will of course blunt the driving experience.

wall

the only things the articles press release don't state are price and weight. I just got the weight from a standard Focus 3doors(not sure what engine size) and added 50kg. Price who knows. The release says due in the showrooms late 01early02.

By the way, I also thought the 0-60 at 6.4 a bit slow...but it's fwd so even with a clever diff traction from standstill would be poor. But once on the move it could be a real stormer, I'd love to see the official 20-40, 40-60, 60-80 increments.

wall

[This message has been edited by wall (edited 05 September 2001).]

Neil Smalley

The 2 litre focus weighs in at 1223Kg(according to evo) so a weight of 1250 is entirely possible.

The biggest difference between the WRX and RS will be the brakes. If those brembo's are the same type as fitted to scoob then I would expect them to make up for any differences between FWD and AWD on a try track. Good brakes can subtract seconds to a cars laptime. Interesting....

druddle

well if the focus is 6.4 for 0 - 60mph, then with a couple of simple mods, a Clio 172 will be up with it!!!

Wheres that credit card again...........

Dave

druddle

just heard that a good friend of mine who is very close to ford racing has been told it will be 205bhp(ish) NOT 220bhp.

wall

well, the Ford Europe press release, as picked up by all the mags, said 220hp and the other info I reported. Not that bull**** info has never been released before by mags, but it seems a little too official, like the big article on 4car.

wall

MattW

Only 3 doors though, difficult to get that child car seat in and out!!!

IntegraR

Is it turbo'ed?

220BHP is pretty good, though with 20BHP more than the Civic Type-R, I would have expected better that 6.4 to 60, though I suppose traction plays a big role, and on the move, it should be quick.

Waiting for rolling performance figures, not that I want one, but just interested.

Wonder what insurance companies will make of them, that combined with the price, and cost of fuel (if turbo'ed), could make it too expensive to attract buyers.

Edit: 205BHP sounds more plausable, given the performance figures. At 220BHP, you'd expect it to be a sub 6 second car.

[This message has been edited by IntegraR (edited 05 September 2001).]

wall

I think that a fwd car set up for road driving (therefore not a drag racer with silly geometry iresweight distribution) weighting about 1200kg, will not be able to go under 6 secs 0-60 due to traction issues, regardless weather it has 200hp, 250hp, clever diffs, traction control, whatever. But once on the move (say over 20mph) on the dry any traction issues should be over witha smart diff and set up, and therefore that's where the extra hp will make a difference. That's why clio172, TegR, new TegR, CivicRS, some turbo saabs fwd, all post 0-60 times between 6.0 and 7.0 despite having weight differences of +- 200kg and power differences of +- 50hp. Above 20-30mph however it is where the weight power setup (diff vs traction control) are felt.

Anyone care to confirm or disprove this theory?

wall

scoobysnacks

The power suggests it could be a sub 6 sec 0-60 car, but traction off the line is sooooo important for a fwd car like this too achieve a good time. AFAIK the new Integra Type R is about the fastest fwd production car in the world with a 5.8 sec 0-60 and that's a lighter car with about 220 bhp. Don't forget also that the Fiat Coupe turbo is just as powerful and had a shed full more torque but still couldn't break 6 secs on the 0-60 run in the tests I saw...
0-100 and the in gear times are much more representative of overall performance but the 0-60 does give you an indication of how well the power will be put down out of tight corners etc so it's not usesless info as some poeple say...

Tiggs

6.4 to 60 is not slow, what fwd cars get there under 6????? (apart from integra)

in fact there prob. arent many rwd cars that get there under 6 with around 200bhp.

Tiggs

IntegraR

What do you mean 0-60 is useless!!! dont you have traffic lights and Nova's where you live?!! and how else would you justify a car without the old "its point 2 of a second faster than my current car to 60".

Jokes, Ill be very interested to see its real world, on the cr@ppy road performance.

Lets face facts. It rains almost all year round, the state of the roads deteriorates while road tax gets more expensive, and the chances of you having a succesful blast down a road, are about as likely as you setting up a succesful dietry school in Ethiopia, so 0-60 is a sort of way of having a little legalish fun.
Can any FWD car hold its own against a 4wd one? in the real world? subject to all those conditions?

Recon Freelanders will become the new choice of the performance car driver.

[This message has been edited by IntegraR (edited 05 September 2001).]

SSE

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Doofus:
You also have to take into account how may gear changes you need (as in a scooby needs 2, S3 needs 3)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

3rd to hit 60mph with a Scoob and 4th with an S3? That would be a couple of extremely short-ratio ones then?

IggDawg

Hey all... 2 things:

1) 0-60 is nothin but an index. Its the accepted index, and is useful in its own right. that being that its practical. sure 0-100 is nice and all but as has been mentioned, I son't want to come down from 100+ to stop at a red.

2) back to the subject at hand. I'm from the good ol US of A. the land of Ford. I can tell you that Ford more often than not is mostly hype. I doubt if their new toy will perform as well as it says it does. they're very optimistic. And if it is good, chances are we won't see many of them. As far as Focus vs WRX... well, I don't think its a contest. especially if you throw a little water on the road. nice thing about a scooby is that its near impossible to spin the tires if you know what you're doing. Even an experienced driver will lay some rubber in a high-torque 2WD car. chances are that 0-60 Ford's giving is simulated given certain statistcs. put one on the road, and all the driver will be doing is admiring the pretty tail lites on the scooby.

-IggDawg

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

no price yet then?? bet it wont be cheap!

Tony

sasman

Bet the BHP is below 200, they always talk it up, then watch the price rise and the power drop. Remember the ka convertable 10k, yeah right.

FRP

Price :- Between 19k and 22k
BHP :- 205-ish bhp

The RS is going to lose out to the Scooby in the wet out of tight corners, but at least it won't be understeering in the corners like the Scooby. ;-)

I don't think its a case of which is better, most owners who wan't an RS will still wan't the RS if it faster than the scooby or not, and vice-vesa with the scooby owner.

If you haven't already seen the latest pictures they are on my website.

gaz1048

I am sure it will be pitched well up in the price range. I guess 23k+.

Ain't they doing a cosworth? Now that is the real player.

G

IntegraR

Sounds expensive to me.
At £20k you're in far more serious car territory, like used Evo 5/6, and I doubt the insurance for the Ford would be much cheaper than eaither of those, performance Fords always get a special place in insurers hearts.

If you want to take a step down, for only £16k you can get a Civic Type-R, looks crap, but so does the Ford, and for .3 of a second less performance, you pay around $4000 less.

If its £20000 or more, I cant see anyone being mental enough to buy one, unless you really like paying too much for Fords, look what happened to the racing Puma.

robski

"The RS is going to lose out to the Scooby in the wet out of tight corners, but at least it won't be understeering in the corners like the Scooby. ;-)"

er hello!?

the only way this isnt going to happen is if the downforce on the front wheels is MASSIVE or the driver isnt on the throttle. I havent driven a FWD drive car in the wet yet that has any decent power, that manages to grip when youve got decent throttle applied into corners.

I always try to test drive cars in the wet as I am going to have to use them then. The scoob was in the wet when I test drove it, after driving there in a heavily modified Celica, I was stunned at how much more grip I had entering the corner. Off throttle obviously both were ok, but on throttle FWD has more power transmitted to the front wheels, and these are the ones that are forced to break traction by the combination of power transmitted through them, cornering forces, contact spot etc.....

robski

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

My son,Chris has had a Focus R.S. on order for about 3 months and has the order form which states £23,000 otr Mind you, it also states October delivery! He is not holding his breath on that one!
It is a delightful car inside and out and I reckon it should be a hoot to drive - we`ll see.
He is going on holiday in October and I volunteered to pick it up for him if it becomes available - his reply is not repeatable on this family channel!!
JohnD

Maz-old

I've been told my a mate at Fords that the RS is going to be pitched at £23,000 to start, but that Ford may review that depending on the resalut of market analysis.

There will be a Cosworth is the RS sells, well, but there will probably be an ST first.

Steve Perriam

23k for a focus !

aint Ford learned yet after the racing puma !

wot are they gonna try to charge for the cossie version then ?

steve

nigel s

I've heard rumors of approx £35,000 for the cossie version. This will only happen when the new Focus is released.