Neil Smalley

Theo

I think many people expected too much of the Focus RS. I'm not picking up too much muppet like mines better than yours posts)on this thread anyway), just a general disapointment that maybe the RS is'nt the car many of us hoped for.

I think a lot of people expected Ford to rewrite the laws of physics and produce an all wheather, all road Impreza rival(and it does need one). If people expected this, then they will be disapointed. No matter what trick diffs/ESP/traction control etc, a well set up RWD or 4WD will always be more rewarding to drive.


[Edited by Neil Smalley - 9/8/2002 6:42:10 PM]

Neil Smalley

Not at all.

95% of all my cars have been FWD. Its easier and safer to drive a FWD, which is why most cars are FWD . The ITR did indeed open a lot of eyes, and it humbles a lot more exotic cars.

But why are F1 cars RWD,Rally cars 4WD and the majority of supercars RWD/4WD?

In any case this is'nt about FWD vs AWD or RWD. It's about how disapointed a lot of people apparently are by the Focus RS

[Edited by Neil Smalley - 9/8/2002 7:44:35 PM]

Alistair Peake

In today's sunday times Jemery Clarkson reviews Focus RS.
Quote " On a smooth road, there is no torque steer pulling every which way as the front tyres struggle to put the power down, and no understeer".... "On the wrong road, however things go terribly wrong. There's a B-road near here that is bumpy and twisty. I use it to test all the cars i drive and I'm afraid the focus fell apart. No car with the possible exception of the 1992 Maserati Ghibli, has ever felt quite so unruly. With the diff constantly active, the steering took on a mind of its own, endlessly squirming this way and that, and with such force that it needed a fair bit of muscle power to hold on. After a couple of mile i began to think i was driving a fully paid-up member of exit"

daz b

The headline in the sunday times supplement reads"This rs will outmanoeuvre a impreza" I don't think so jez

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Told you so>>>!!!!!!!

Type_RA

3 point turns and reverse parking dont come up high on my list on reasons for buying a car

Impret-Sir

iTrader: (1)

The road test in the current issue of Car magazine agrees with clarkson, on a smooth road the RS is great, but on any kind of bumpy/twisty stuff, ie an English A or B road, the Impreza was the better handler. They also said that the RS was so noisy that is was hard work after a while.

Type_RA

Are u sure they said RS and not RA, sounds like my car .

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Nice One...think again Ford
Cheers
Colin

Lemmy

This months EVO magazine compared the WRX with the RS Focus and made similar comments:

"The Focus becomes more agitated the deeper we head into the Dales National Park, taking particular exception to sharp ridges. Thing is the pace isn't that rapid. I hop into the Impreza for a re-run and it's as if the road has been resurfaced. The WRX glides over the same stretch. Its steering feels soft after the RS's but it flows, it flatters, it inspires confidence."

"It's a shame the RS can't take the fight to the Japanese rally replicas on roads they have made their own"

"..but unless your neck of the woods is paved with smooth, dry asphalt straight out of the car ad, it's (WRX) is a much more effective and satifying way of deploying 200 bhp."

Also both Car and Top Gear magazines preferred the WRX to the Focus RS.

QED

Alan

jonny gav

iTrader: (1)

who in all honesty believed it was going to be as good as the impreza on a twisty road???

EvilBevel

Oh well, another car trashed without actually driving it

Those other BBS's are right... sometimes we Scooby drivers are really stuck up our own bum.

Ever tried such a front diff ? Sure it will torque steer, that's the whole point in fact. It does so in an Impreza, so it surely will in a FWD car. So what ?

If you don't want to "work", buy a friggin Multipla

daz b

So to sum up the rs is great on a newly resurfaced dual-carrigeway,that should be fun

SCOSaltire

maybe u can enjoy using the car tho?

Type_RA

Test drives may be difficult if they have sold 6 months worth of production. The cars will be coming in and going out the next day. Hopefully having brought a new Ford recently I may get privilege customer test drive status . I am actually very impressed with my local Ford dealer and would have no problem in buying a performance variant off them and let them maintain it.

Actually if they do a 4wd Focus with 250-300 then I would have a very serious look at one.

I just dont want a high powered FWD car anymore, shamed to say I have been spoilt with AWD.

Cheers

ChrisP

daz b

always been told 200bhp the max 4 fwd so i'll steer clear

daz b

100% as above

Toonman1

We've had a Focus 1.8 Zetec for over 2 years now and can't wait until the lease ends. It's been a heap of crap and Ford and their dealers have been as bad. We've tried 4 in the N Yorks/Co Durham area so far, and they're just a joke. The leasing Co are considering letting us out of the deal early (with no penalties), as the car's been so bad.

We wouldn't go near a Ford again - RS or otherwise and wouldn't trust one of their dealers to look after an empty tin of Diet Coke...

Thank God for Subarus and decent dealers like SG Petch in Richmond.

Andy W

It does seem that they have repeated the problems that they had with the Puma racing, should make a very good track car though.

Andy

dba

Niel,

can you justify your comment "a rwd/awd car will ALWAYS be more rewarding to drive than a fwd"

you don't really mean "always" do you? Is everyone who buys an awd suddenly an aficionado of driving,i.e fwd is not goos enough for you guys,its just to easy?

I doubt you mean always,but still,the ITR has surely changed some opinions,even the most snotty of rwd/awd snobs.

I fully understand the theory of balancing on the limit blah,blah,blah,but to say always is just plain daft imo.

318 or a 156
147 or a Compact
200sx or an ITR
etc etc

dba

dunno,perhaps they are driven by drivers who need it,can use it etc? I'm not saying that fwd is better/worse whatever,I'm not qualified,but chassis engineering has surely come along way for fwd not to be dismissed out of hand as always inferior.As you must well know they are extremely rewarding to drive,and many prefer them to the knife edge of rwd,powersliding and oversteer.

I love Imprezas and may get one,but its nothing to do with what wheels are driven,its the overall driving experience etc etc.

Type_RA

DBA thats why the impreza is good though, it has a great chassis and one that can take the power. 215bhp is a starting point, not a finishing point. An ITR is a great car and superb handlign for a FWD but its still less than 200bhp. I woudl have an ITR over an S2K any day of the week. Yes FWD cars can be fun but it hits a power maximum where is becomes pointless increasing it. You imagine a 300bhp ITR it would either have to have a good traction control system (which would defect the power increase) or you would do a set of front tyres in 50 yards. The thing I always hate about FWD was wet weather grip and having to slip the clutch to pull away all the time . I drove a scoob and couldnt believe it you really had to try hard to get a small squeak from the tyres on take off and it launched like a rocket.

plinkplonk

Just to set a few things straight on RS reviews / comparisons so far:

EVO said that the explosive delivery of the RS made the Subaru feel flat, but that the Subaru was ultimately the less over-dramatic and therefore more satifying way of enjoying 200+bhp. EVO also give an impressive set of performance figures ("which leave the other candidates gasping") at their own proving ground (0-60 in 5.9 and 0-100 in 14.9).

EVO rated the two the same (4 out of 5).
It also went on to say that the CooperS and Clio Cup were better than both (in terms of punch for your pound) and gave them both Joint first at 4.5 each. Now I'm sure there'll be opinions here on that, but then if you write off EVO's opinion on these other 2 then you really HAVE to write off the whole article!).

CAR said that the RS was a lot more dramatic (overly so) than the WRX on more bumpy / rutted roads BUT in summing up said that the RS was, most of the time, the more charasmatic drive and therefore declared the RS victorious ("though not a total victory").
In CAR I could not see anything about the car being noisy.

Jeremy Clarkson's 2 reviews that I've read, he states in both summaries that he cannot make up his mind because of the B-road issue and would like to do further testing - in Topgear mag he says he'll stick with the Scooby "for now". In the Sunday Times he says that RS will outmanouvre the WRX on the right roads but that the fight is outrageous on the bumpy stuff (and so awards the car 4 out of 5), so he's atill procrastinating.
Interestingly in terms of noise in Topgear Jeremy says "Maybe there should be more of an exhaust bark, but I'm happy to make do with the hard-edged induction roar that settles down nicely when you're cruising". Sounds like a positive to me.

To sumarise then (if joruno opinions are to be believed):

RS:
+ Very quick in standard form (impressive 0-60 , 0-100, 1/4 mile and in gear times - all quicker than the standard WRX)
+ high tech diff
+ relatively little lag
+ Outclasses the WRX on the smooth stuff (or the STI on a track - Autocar)
+ All reviews state it looks great (far better than anything it's being compared too)
+ fanatstic braking capability
+ 19,995 - very reasonably priced.
+ Insurance group 16A.
+ Brilliant track day car according to ALL sources
- There would not appear to be that much modding opportunity
- Overly dramatic on the bumps and twists - requires noticeably more concentration than the WRX for a rewarding drive.

Is that a fair summary for those who've read all the press?
If so then I would say there's NO convicing victor here. These are both highly rated drivers' cars each with there own pro's and con's. What lucky people we are having 2 equally entertaining and focussed driver's car out there to choose from.

(PS I'm told that today's Autocar has declared the Focus Best Hot Hatch comapred to WRX, Audi S3, Civic type r, Leon Cupra R - I'm off to the newsagents to buy it!)

HKSubaru

HA HA!

Neil Smalley

plinkplonk

That seems a fair summation.

However all a review will give you is the reviewers opinion.

Its much better to go and test drive yourself and make your own mind up.

Because of the limited run of the Focus RS its unlikely many will be available for test drives, so people will be unable to make their own minds up unless they put down some money first.

I welcome all competition because it makes the manufacturers raise their game. I don't however think Subaru will be sweating over the Focus RS. Why? Because the Impreza is a mass produced model sold worldwide, the Focus RS a limited run special edition sold only in the UK and Europe. Now if Ford were to put it into production as a regular model and sell it in the US and Japan Subaru might well react in the manner we hope.

However I think they'll just shrug their shoulders and let the Focus RS have its day in the sun, for when they're all sold its small fry compared to the global picture.

I'm told the tooling for the Focus RS will only stretch to 6000 cars and retooling would be an expensive excersise.

Neil Smalley

The Autocar article is full of contradictions. They play down the B road handling no end, and perform the handling test on a race track; which makes the RS look better than other road testers have said. I prefer the EVO review, it seems a lot more balanced. but then IMHO Autocar are the 'Daily Mirror' of the car magazine world.

As I said above, Drive it and form your own view. I'm glad Subaru have not got it all their own way now, but i'm not hopeful of the RS forcing them to do anything about it(see above).

Jon1T

I said in an earlier post I will be getting a test drive of the RS in a few weeks - as my best mate is the chief press guy at Ford - and I can compare it to my decatted WRX.

However it looks like the RS has got everyone rattled, judging by the usual 'oh no- no car's better than a scooby' posts, that seem to crop up with increasingly monotonous regularity on here.

Face it -there are now many cars giving the WRX a run for it's money in all sorts of areas (does anyone remember the EVO handling/performance tests where the standard WRX came near the bottom?) - and for less money/lower 'life' costs.

plinkplonk

I would give my right arm to have a drive in one!!

I believe there may be a tester available at one dealership this side of 2003. Other info states that there may be some demo's avaiable Q2 next year. No test drives is a poor show on Ford's part - their reasoning is committed customers come first, but if that's the case why not give the people who've had deposits down for up to 2 years at least a little taster before sginging on the dotted line? Makes no sense.

Ford do also look silly over the length of time to production and I agree that this is a drop in the ocean.

But it's a MASSIVE step in the right direction and it's great to finally have a choice in the mainstream practical performance sector!!!
It's a bonus for Scooby drivers that they'll actually have something comparable to go up against for once (apart from another Scoob). It's also a bonus as for (say) each 2 RS's that are sold that's possibly one less Subaru on the road, so it may feel a bit more exclusive to be a Scooby owner for a change.

I heard the same about the tooling, although CAR did imply in the latest issue that current target was up to 10,000 (5,000 for the UK). We'll see.....

Pavlo

hmm, EVO also said the RS is fitted with a

"boost recirclutaion valve helping to maintain optimum boost between gearchanges. Think of it as an Anti-Lag system without the firecracker sound effects"

Hmm, sounds familiar....

If I had £20k for a new car, I'd buy one I think.

Paul

Makalu

Does it come in WR Blue?

And cup holders.... does it have cup holders?

What about that cute little light that shines down from the roof on to the drivers head? Does it have one of them?

What about big fat bulging arches like my WRex.... They look nice... does it have them?

No?


In that case its just another bloody ford Focus then aint it!

Mak.