medders

Why oh why do we always have to harp on about being caught speeding as soon as anyone mentions the word police on here. It's not sodding relevant!!!!
Am I the only person on here getting bored with this constantly reoccurring? It's boring. And I don't want to argue about the rights and wrongs of the law, but we've done this to death.
Scoob99 - if you've got a problem with the police then that's fine. Say it once then leave it alone.

We are all commenting on something reported by a paper here.
It's a real shame what happened, but the fact is, we don't actually know exactly what happened. Conjecture is fine on a bb like this, but stop slagging off everyone and there mum just because you've been nicked for speeding.

rant over

MorayMackenzie

I assume the police will be making a full and exhaustive enquiry into the incident before deciding not to charge the VW driver... after all, they could not charge her and not charge the police driver who managed to hit the student... or could they?

Sounds like death-by-missadventure to me.

Moray

DrEvil

My intention wasn't to bring up the speeding thread again. I was just shocked to hear what had transpired over Sunday AM.

Medders - to a point I agree with you.

At the end of the day, the issue here is, somebody has lost their life, some else has immense trauma (SP!) to deal with..

And the action by the police is questionable, but perhaps they were unable to get any information from the woman due to her state of shock, but then again arresting her wouldn't have made any difference.

My main concern, as Trigger point out, is the police proved by their own actions, that due to the conditions of Sunday morning or the stretch of road, it was hard to see obsticles in the road, hence made contact with body themselves. Based on that, I can't believe they had the gall to try to proscute the woman?

DrEvil

MorayM - thats the point i was trying to make, just less gracefully (that is, my version was less gracefull)

Back on topic now, good.

[This message has been edited by DrEvil (edited 17 July 2001).]

GranTurismo

REMEMBER.

It seems thatr if you hit a pedestrian its now your fault!

Pedestrians are innocent, safe, green-cross-code following eco friendly gods.

Drivers are dangerous psycopathic eco terrorists. (but as soon as you get out of the car you are suddenly wonderfull)

DrEvil

GT - rearrange 'nail' 'the' 'hit' 'head' 'on' 'the'

DrEvil

Mornin'

I just heard something rather disturbing, and wondered if anyone knows the big picture on what 'actually' happened on Sunday...

The M27 around lunch time, east bound was shut from junc 8 onwards.. there was a huge tail back, past hedge end, I was in it for a couple of hours before getting off @ the hedge end junc of the M27...

I have just heard the reason for this was a man wondering around on the M27, he was prompt hit by an oncoming vehicle.. And then, somehow, hit by the police car attending the seen

Does anybody know this to be true?
It just seems awful, I hope the guy is alive, but I sadly doubt it..

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Alex

medders

Read about this in the paper yesterday. Think it's the same. Man hit by vw of some kind. Body in carriageway. Police turn up to investigate and ran over body. Driver of VW was arrested I think and bailed.

DrEvil

Just heard, the guy was a hitch hiker or similar, alledgedly running across the carriage way.. Apparently hit by a middle aged woman in a polo..

Hmm.. if she was arrested for dangerous driving, was the police driver too?
I thought those volvo's had good stopping power, and it was a clear/dry day.

Just a thought. Alex

DavidRB

Dark Muppet

It's very sad. But why is the woman being blamed for this??? If she was doing 70Mph and the student jumped out in front of her, then why blame her?

IMHO, from my limited knowledge it was the students fault for running across a motorway.

DrEvil

Is it me, or does this suggest that the police car was the second vehicle to hit the body, followed by a transit van..??

Odd!?

If anyone from the portsmouth crowd new of him, my condolences.

===================
Student is killed hitching on M27
By Linus Gregoriadis
(Filed: 16/07/2001)


A STUDENT was killed on a motorway early yesterday after being run over by three vehicles, including a police car.

Damian Whitfield, 21, of Queen's Road, Waterlooville, Hants, died after he was struck in the early hours of the morning on an unlit section of the M27 between Southampton and Fareham.

Witnesses said he had been on the motorway trying to hitch a lift and had been jumping into the road. The Hampshire police car, driven by Pc Martyn Lockyear, was called to the scene after the victim was struck by a woman driving a Volkswagen Polo.

A third vehicle, a white Transit van, also hit Mr Whitfield as he lay in the road. He was certified dead at the scene and a stretch of the M27 was closed for 10 hours.

The 37-year-old woman, from the Fareham area, was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving, but was not charged and was released on police bail.

Police are appealing for anyone on the eastbound section of the M27 at around 3am yesterday to contact them.

A spokesman said: "We would like to trace an HGV driver, who managed to steer clear of the body, as well as motorists travelling on the westbound carriageway, who may have seen the accident."

Jerome

The only way I can see that it was this womans fault would be if she deliberately swerved to hit the guy. Even if she was speeding and hit this guy, why is it her fault. A bit academic whether you're hit at 70mph or 85mph.

[This message has been edited by Jerome (edited 17 July 2001).]

Jaggy Bunnet

.... and who's to say the student was killed by the Polo? Could have been either the police car or the Transit. It was dark, the student shouldn't have been there. Can't see how the Polo driver can be blamed. Suicide.

JB

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Correct me if i am wrong but arn't predestrians not allowed to walk onto motorways?????????........ If this guy did why was he not picked up by cctv earlier, My argrument is why blame an innocent motorist for something that was totally out of control, AND WHERE WERE THE POLICE, I bet if anyone of us was speeding they would soon get us, It makes me so angry that poor woman the truma she will have to go through is unbeliveable,IMHO the only person to blame is the predestrian himself.......OH AND OF COURSE THE POLICE.
Cheers
Colin

TRIGGER

Feel very sorry for the poor girl in the Polo - but no sympathy for the police - called to an incident and they arent awake enough to even see the body in the road !!!! Then they dont even prevent somebody else in the Transit doing the same - should go back to catching speeders....

Jerry B

I guess you can draw your own conclusions from all this. Mine would be that cars can kill, even when driven carefully. 'Accidents' happen, even to the police. They're only human after all, fallible like the rest, motoring policies aside.
I suppose the only person to blame for any of this is now unfortunately dead and couldn't defend himself if he wasn't beyond blame.
Just feel sympathy for all involved and am glad I've never been involved in anything like that and hope I never will - it could happen to anyone.

DrEvil

Agreed, its a terrible tradegy at the end of the day.

medders

Dr Evil,
Sorry if I gave the impression I was having a go at you. I wasn't. The topic is a good course for discussion. The thing that p*sses me off is people coming back with this "I hate the police cos I'm cool b4llox" It just seems to be creeping into every thread these days. The majority of people haven't got a clue what the police do, yet become experts on here.
A good discussion turned into some anti police slagging match.
Now I've changed the subject defending them!

Apologies to anyone I offended to whom it wasn't directed.

DrEvil

Medders - none taken, sorry, my wording probably wasn't that great, I haven't taken offence at your comments. I agreed with you about not bring up speeding again, as it wasn't the issue.

Appart from the tradegic outcome of the events of that morning, the issue was the police 'seemed' to have arrest someone for the practically the same offence they committed, if indeed it was an offence.

As others have pointed out, at the end of the day, we are all only human and accidents happen. Perhaps it is the way the press have reported it, and also that we don't know all the facts. But it just seemed that the Polo hit the man, then the police car, then the transit.

Which raises questions such as:

- why did the police try to proscute when they fell foul of the same human limitations?

- why did the transit have the opportunity to hit the body after the police arrived?

Who knows what events happened prior to the police arriving, apart from the guy who died and the woman who potentially ran him over (first).. Who knows, the transit may have finished him off.. or the police car..

It just seemed a bit off that the police even entertained proscution of the woman, after all who expects to see a pedestrian on a motorway anywhere other than on the hard shoulder.

Perhaps we should just leave this here, and end this topic. And just think for one moment what it would be like to be missing a member of our families, human life is fragile at the best of times.

Alex

chuckster

Devils advocate mode on...
The police could have suspected that the student was struck whilst standing on the hard shoulder, ie the VW driver could have been half asleep, veered onto the hard shoulder and struck him. Hey presto dangerous driving.
Very sad story, but sounds vaguely Darwinian if in fact the witness' story about him jumping into the middle of the road (an unlight section of a motorway) is true.
Chuck
Edited to add I hadn't seen the last 3 or 4 replies as I typed that.


[This message has been edited by chuckster (edited 17 July 2001).]

Jerry B

Picture this. Police answering a call to an accident on Westbound carraigeway, early hours, darkness. Suddenly as they approach from the Eastbound, intending to double back at the next junction, they hit some object lying in the road. Could have happened that way, poor guy got thrown over....we're all just guessing.

Point I'm making is we all do things we shouldn't, drive too fast, take risks.....I've driven like a prat plenty of times, I'm just thankful that no-one happened to be in the way when I've been silly, or done something stupid and got away with it....and we don't even know that they were in any way to blame here.

I take it as a reminder that one day I may not be so lucky....maybe I ought to slow down a bit, who knows what could be around that corner.....kid on a bike.....horse.....maybe I'll be lucky and it'll just be a deer that I have on my conscience......having a fast car isn't always the smartest move or the fun it seems, when things go wrong they can change lives or end them.
Not preaching, I'm way off squeaky-clean, just trying to learn from it.

Sith

I hate to tell you chaps this, a pedestrian has right of way on any road, including motorways. Someone I know found out the hardway. Said person was the driver. Pretty much confirmed in the court.

It is a shame this has happened.

P.

ChrisB

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sith:
<B>
I hate to tell you chaps this, a pedestrian has right of way on any road, including motorways. Someone I know found out the hardway. Said person was the driver. Pretty much confirmed in the court.

It is a shame this has happened.

P.[/quote]

Interestin that...

Jerome

Having revisited this thread after a few more replies, it seems that, without the full facts, it is very difficult to know why the woman hit the pedestrian, why the Police then hit him, why the transit then hit him and even why the Police chose to charge the Polo driver. There are too many unknowns to be able to state with authority at this time what happened and what actions may or may not be right or justified. However, I do think the press release left something to be desired. It wouldn't have hurt anyone to keep the facts to a minimum until a full investigation had been completed.

I suggest we should all suspend any further comment until further facts emerge.



[This message has been edited by Jerome (edited 17 July 2001).]

Andy Winskill

I'd have thought it to be SOP to arrest the driver when a pedestrian is injured. When a friend was killed on his bike (driver pulled out of junction on blind bend. Bike doing 80mph+ on impact = friends fault) the driver was arrested. Later the charges were dropped. Felt really bad for her.

Isn't there something in the Highway Code about a pedestrian always having the right of way.....

So your quietly driving along at 30mph. Pedestrian steps out into path of car. No time to stop (amazing how far you travel on reaction time....). Hit pedestrian. It's the drivers fault.

I for one can see there needs to be a rule for this and can't really argue with the current rule. Unfortunately thinking about it makes me wish that the government would use some of its massive adervtising budget to bring back the Green Cross Code! If it's going to be the drivers fault then lets educate pedestrians that not all drivers pay attention all the time (me included).

While they're at it they can tell people that the "Slow Lane" on motorways isn't just for lorries. I wonder how many accidents are caused by people sat in the middle lane... Driving round the M25 on Sunday I was shocked to see that the traffic in the middle/fast lane were on-off brakes. No traffic in the inside lane. As a M25 commuter it makes me feel much safer at 8am....

Gary Foster

Andy, if you read ChrisB's link it states Pedestrians are not allowed on Motorways (except in some cases eg breakdowns).

Question is, what happens when the M27 turns into the A27(M) or whatever its called, up near Portsmouth - I assume pedestrians have right of way and can legally go waltzing around on the hard shoulder.

In fact what in the world is that bit of road called ? Motorway ? 3 lane dual carriageway ?

Sith

ChrisB,

No fight.

P.

Dave P

My memory of the highway code is that pedestrians do not automatically have the right of way.

They do on pedestrian crossings, but only from the point they have one foot on it, and they do when they are crossing a side road into which you are turning.

That said, an aquaintance of mine ran someone over a few months back. Fortunately for him plenty of witnesses saying she walked straight into the side of his car. Transpired she had had a nervous breakdown, was in her night clothes and didn't even know where she was..... but hey, guess what, she's suing him.

It all comes back to what I have been saying for years, and had a letter in my local rag to the same effect, pedestrian education is as important as driver education. Ok I know the guy was 21, but whatever happened to Tufty the Squirrel and the Greencross Code Man.

And finally, the papers say he was hitch hiking (I know we can't believe what we say in the press), but common sense tells you not to hitch hike on a motorway.....

However condolences to his family, what a waste of a young life.

Dave

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Medders,
I don't have a problem with the police, in fact I think they do a great job for little money, My point was WHY was this guy not picked up on cctv and stopped. Having myself been involved in a very serious road traffic accident and nearly killed by a drunk, It's the truma that the poor woman will go through just like I went through and still am (unless you have been there you do not have a clue what you are talking about) It is always the poor motorist who gets the blame, (I take it you have never been pulled by the police). Or broken any speeding laws?????????????
Cheers
Colin