Richard Gledhill

Highest non-turbo output on a production car at the moment (IIRC) is on the Caterham FW500 (or is it Westfield?... umm...) Anyway, it has a highly tuned Rover 1.8 VVC engine which produces 230bhp, revving to 9000rpm. That's nearly 128bhp/litre... Very impressive for a production car!

Richard

carl

Richard,

I think you mean 'highest non-turbo specific output' as in bhp/litre, rather than 'highest non-turbo output'. Didn't Westfield use a 1.4 K-series tuned to in excess of 140 bhp once?

Gary Foster

Pop Quiz for all you knowledgable Scooby owners, which was the first mainstream manufacturer to release a Normally aspirated car producing > 100 Bhp per Litre ?

I know of only two, BMW (M3 Evo - E36) and Honda (the type R cars / S2000)

I'm quite interested, strikes me that it's easier to do with a small (Honda) engine as there are less frictional losses than say a 3.2 litre (BMW) engine. What do you think.

Does any of you forced induction types care ?

pnebbs

How about the BMW/Maclaren F1 - 6 litre V12 and 627bhp

Quite a big engine with potentially lots of friction but over 100bhp/litre

Paul

Adam M

Honda civic VTECs have been 100bhp/litre for about 12 years. Old 1.5 unit three shapes ago had 150 bhp

Think ferrari dino 206 was also although not mainstream.

mclaren engine is just two m3 engines bolted into a v.


certain there are more just cant think of them now.

lordlucan

Daihatsu Charade Turbo, probably well off the mark and definately spelt wrong. Worth a guess.....

Grubby

Oi, lets get this thread back on line, I think this is an interesting question and I would love to know the answer:

Who was THE FIRST mainstream manufacturer to produce a normally aspirated engine over 100bhp/litre? of the nominations so far BMW are the earliest 321bhp/3.2litre but there must be someone earlier???

andymac

What year is that (so we've got a starting point)

cheers

Andy

AlexM

How about the Honda S800? that revved to 9000rpm in about 1972.....

johnfelstead

my hillman imp rally car did 112BHP from 998cc and 10,200 rpm. This is on a 1967 designed engine. Not really production though.

Grubby

Don't know what year the M3 launched - I am not a great follower of beemers!

Gethin

[This message has been edited by Gethin (edited 02-02-2000).]

GaryC

Ferrari 355 was pre M3 Evo - 100bhp+/litre

epyjymp

Around 1990, there was an Italian-market-only BMW 320is with 190something bhp. This might just have been 100bhp per litre.

epyjymp.

Adam M

See above,

honda civic vtec, shoe box shape, 12 years ago (way before m3 and 355) 150bhp from 1.5 litre.

Believe metro 6R4 also had over 100bhp/litre etc.

Diablo

Think first mainstream manufacturer to meet your criteria was Honda, with its V-tecs (mid eighties???)

Think this has been said above.

If you want to get really picky, though, they had just over 100ps/litre not bhp.

D.

Gary Foster

Ohhh, I didn't expect that many responses (umm, how do I get a smily in here ?)

anyway, I checked the Ferrari web site, the F355 was released in 94 with 109 bhp / litre

Haven't worked out yet when the Bimmer evo was released.

Darn, I was hoping it would be some stupid manufacturer eg Lada / reliant etc.

Ps, a lot of you guys seem to be putting smileys in the posts that don't appear on the list (eg rolling eyes smiley).

NickF

Whilst the Honda VTEC engines were the first to exceed 100hp/litre, this isn't quite as good as it first appears, especially compared to the other 100+ hp/litre cars I can think of (M3, F360, 911GT3) cos they haven't got any torque to speak of.

The Honda engines are obviously very powerful for their size, but a blat in an Integra-R reminded me of an RD250 I used to own - wonderful when it's in the powerband, pathetic when it's not. And a pain in the **** when it's raining or you just don't want to go at 10/10ths.

The M3, on the other hand - now that engine really is something to admire. Pity it's stuck in a 3-series, but I suppose you can't have everything.

johnfelstead

Of course the first sierra cosworth was 205BHP from 1994cc in 1986.

ferrari 250 testa rossa 300bhp from 2953cc in 1958.

ferrari GTO 400bhp from 2855cc in 1984.

and finally, to put this all into perspective we have the BMW M13 F1 engine, 1499cc running 5.5BAR (thats 79 psi boost) produced 1300bhp at monza qualifying in 1986.

thats 866 bhp/litre, silly or what.

WigWam

It was definetly the 355.

Diablo

John,

Turbo cars don't count

Wigwam,

It wasn't the 355. In any event, its hardly a mainstream car, is it??

D.

Adam M

The engine in my RC helicopter was a .31 which makes it about 5cc yet it had about 3.4 h/p and it was normally aspirated (people seem to forget that this is the point of this thread).

That makes a total of about 680 bhp per litre, and it started everytime.

Model engine technology, although improved has been almost identical for about 30 years.

Does this count?

By the way, before anyone asks, no I can't fly the damn thing and sold it cos it was the hardest thing in the world to do and I would rather go for a blat in my loverly WRX.

johnfelstead

sorry, didnt read it properly.

so what about the ferrari testa rossa, the original one was N/A.

I would class a ferrari as mainsteam, its only a fiat after all.

GaryC

<anorak on>

all Testarossa were naturally aspirated - all had V12s. As far as I know, no road ferrari has ever had a V12 Turbo.

Wreckleford

I don't think the Testarossa counts as a mainstream car. I think Porsche did a 911 variant in the seventies that passed 100 bhp/litre but again, i wouldn't call it mainstream. I have to go with the Honda B16A engine. I believe it was released in 1990 and the japanese version made 160ps from a 1.6 litre (not quite 160 hp). By '92 it was making 170ps, which is above 160hp. THIS WAS LONG BEFORE THE MCLAREN FI, FERRARI F355 OR BMW M3 E36.

Philip Thurlow

THE MINI YOU FOOLS !!!!!!!
hehehehe - well nearly

andymac

1992 Honda and Mitsubishi both had normally aspirated engines;

1PS = 0.98632 bhp

Honda : 175PS = 172bhp from 1590cc = 108.1bhp/l @7500rpm
Mitsu : 170PS = 167bhp from 1580cc = 105.7bhp/l @7800rpm

both use variable valve timing, Honda VTEC and Mistu MIVEC. Both systems have variable intake and outlet valve timings. Many other VVT cars only vary the inlet timing.

cheers

Andy

Hermanator

How about a mildly tweaked Suzuki Hyabusa engine at 1298cc giving 190Bhp.

NickF

Hayabusa ..... rode one a few weeks back. How cold do you get at 180mph? Er, very.

The owner (a trusting soul) reckons it eats rear tyres in 1500 miles if you use the acceleration - and let's be honest, why wouldn't you?

Pumpkin

100bhp per litre has been the target for many years on a normally aspirated road engine (ie no turbo or supercharger)

We've built three 1960's Lancia Fulvia rally engines that give 100bhp per litre.

It has only been in recent years that technology has allowed road car engines to give 100bhp/l.

Don't belive performance or power claims from years ago - they were wildly optimistic!

For specific power output for a production turbo car, look no further than the Maserati Ghibli Cup - 2 litre turbo giving 330bhp - thats 165bhp per litre. For quite some time this was held by the Lancia Delta S4 which was a 1.7 litre producing 250bhp in road trim - 147bhp/l