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In the search for an uprated TMIC for my Hawk, I've confirmed that both Hyperflow and APS are out of business, and for some time too! Who does that leave in the running, bar Grimmspeed?
Fortunately I've found a used APS piece on ebay, but I'm curious never the less!
Chevron Motorsport produce uprated tmics that actually seem to work (backed up by data logs from john f and others).
Personally I'm dubious about the bar and plate style intercoolers that claim to offer both lower pressure drops and increased cooling over the same kind of area as the standard STI tmic. I can't see how that can be possible, but if there was some decent data logged for it, I might be converted
Personally I'm sticking with a STI tmic (after having ran two different fmics).
Chevron have two types of TMIC. I believe theyre "road" and "race" the cheaper being £900+v and the dearer being £1200+v. I know this as i was enquiring a couple of weeks ago.
I'm going Grimmspeed as I was offered one at a fantastic price.
Even new the grimmspeed piece is cheaper than that, but I was put off by the fact there is no mountings for the stock rocker cover breather pipework. They replace it with a T and length of hose, but the stock piece is designed to be equal length, for a good reason too I would expect.
Even new the grimmspeed piece is cheaper than that, but I was put off by the fact there is no mountings for the stock rocker cover breather pipework. They replace it with a T and length of hose, but the stock piece is designed to be equal length, for a good reason too I would expect.
I wouldnt be worried about changing the length of breather pipe work.
Grimmspeed appealed to me as they offer specific under trays for their top mounts which apply to the different bonnet scoops.
Grimmspeed also offer different undertrays/shrouds to suite the different models. Except classic..
I have bought an aps one on eBay will see how the stock sti duct fits. If it's not good I might see if there scope to modify the existing piece or replace with maybe the grimmspeed one.
Kev tweaked the design on the v5/6 coolers a while back to make sure they clear the OE strut brace. Mine is a version 6 Type R Limited running the newage PAS reservoir as I wanted to fit the later alternator cover as it looks nicer in my opinion.
Haven't had the car mapped yet, still running in the 2.5, but I'm sure the TMIC will hold it's own, it's a good bit of kit.
Interesting thread with some logging from a non-vestee 3rd party.
Wow, that is an interesting study. Apart from the IAT which is measured upstream of the turbo I think (by the maf usually), basically no different in anything apart from the £s and hours wasted fitting it....
Chevron have two types of TMIC. I believe theyre "road" and "race" the cheaper being £900+v and the dearer being £1200+v. I know this as i was enquiring a couple of weeks ago.
I'm going Grimmspeed as I was offered one at a fantastic price.
Wow, that is an interesting study. Apart from the IAT which is measured upstream of the turbo I think (by the maf usually), basically no different in anything apart from the £s and hours wasted fitting it....
Intuitively that just doesn't seem right though!
If I read it correctly, he's relocated the iat as he runs speed density.
I think it makes sense, though, because when it comes to cooling it's basically the area that matters (mostly) compared to depth. The STI tmic is probably around as big as is possible to fit (area-wise), and the extra depth of the aftermarket intercoolers doesn't matter as much, because when cooling, the air going through the fins on the outside of the cooler will quickly heat up and be the same temperature as the ic. This is why car radiators for example are thin but wide, because if you had the same volume water but at say 4x the depth (or 1/4 the area), the cooling would be much worse.
Also, the tube and fin design of the standard tmic is probably more efficient than the bar and plate setup. There could be several reasons for this, but maybe it has a higher surface area, or maybe the air slows down more, so there's more time to transfer heat out from it).
Both std and the Chevron intercooler are tube and fin, btw, but I think bar and plate is cheaper to produce.
one thing I'm not sure of is where he is measuring his boost pressure. If it's before the intercooler it is possible that the boost pressure is higher at the inlet with the aftermarket unit, at only a slight penalty in heat, but on the other hand if it's measured after the ic then the aftermarket one (specifically the one in his test) seems worse than STD.
You might be right there, though for the radiator, I suspect a lot of that is packaging space. The different structure as you mention might well be a factor and a good reason that the stock STi piece is so much better than a similar sized WRX piece and way more expensive... not much that looks different, but different 'under the hood'...boom boom.
In prep for the new APS unit coming I took some picture of the stock setup with my cheapo usb endoscope. I wanted to the see how the stock cowl mated up to the intercooler. As you might expect it sits perfectly over the outer rim. I'll post some pics of the APS unit in the stock install condition also for reference.
I road tune the car myself and I'm pretty familiar with how she runs. I use mechanical boost control so it's rock solid from that point of view (after the usual daily tweeking). Set at around 1.5 bar mid range boost it tappers down to around 1.2 ish at the top end, and gives around 300g/sec airflow maxed out. If after fitting the APS piece, I get the feeling it's running more air in than that, I'd consider that a win for the money and less hassle than FMIC....
Last edited by Bazil_SW; Nov 21, 2018 at 09:43 PM.
re- that nasioc back to back test, the IAT sensor is closer to the water/meth nozzle on the sti tmic than the grimmspeed, if it were getting some spray,even a little, it would knock the temps. The sti top mount is an excellent bit of kit but a better test would be running more power and without the water/meth plumbing.
Trev
re- that nasioc back to back test, the IAT sensor is closer to the water/meth nozzle on the sti tmic than the grimmspeed, if it were getting some spray,even a little, it would knock the temps. The sti top mount is an excellent bit of kit but a better test would be running more power and without the water/meth plumbing.
Trev
Also a valid point, the power level is 'modest' in that test, as the sti piece is good for around 400 ish so I've read, so presumably is at low efficiency at that flow rate / pressure etc. I guess these things will have an efficiency curve and when the sti cooler is loosing steam, others might be getting ready to rock and vice versa.
I'm hoping to see an increase in airflow as a result, and then if it works, fit some after market headers as it's running around 400 ish currently (forged 2.5 with td05 20g).
Last edited by Bazil_SW; Nov 21, 2018 at 11:26 PM.
For anyone interested, I've started a project thread on the switch over to the new APS intercooler, with some data of how the car is currently running as the starting point. LINK
Uprated TMIC - Who is left producing?
May remove the sticker though...
