Jay Cartay

iTrader: (3)

Hi folks, I've asked a few related questions recently but I'm after something definitive here.

I've done a few searches on this now, but it brings back so many results, most with little real relevance that I've kinda given up in frustration!

Firstly, when buying shocks, is it the shock itself or the spring which is Wagon specific?

As for coilovers, do the likes of BC etc. make any specifically for the wagons, as I haven't seen them if so? Or do wagon owners tend to just buy the same as the saloon guys but go for a higher spring rate on the rear?

Which spring rate is recommended for a daily driver that needs to retain a tiny bit of comfort if that's the case? I don't want the car sat on it's **** when loaded up!

Again, sorry if this has been covered (and I expect it has) but I couldn't find what I was looking for.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Jay,

Not sure on the Hawkeyes but my Bugeye wagon needed new rear top mounts to fit the shocks, the fronts went straight on.

I fitted JDM Blobeye STi red Shocks with Eibach springs and they where the business.

ZX-TT

There are no specific wagon shocks in production however I would strongly recommend BC BR series coilovers. I have recently fitted a set on my Bug Wagon and the drive is top notch. couldnt recommend them highly enough

Jay Cartay

iTrader: (3)

Mine's a Blobeye. I think I've found top mounts, but worried they might end up being the wrong ones. Did you buy springs that were Wagon specific?

As for the BC's, they come with their own top mounts don't they? So will that not be an issue when fitting to a Wagon?

walsallboy

iTrader: (1)

Ive Got bc coilovers on my blobeye wagon !!

trevsjwood

iTrader: (2)

For the BC coilovers you want year 00-07, spring rate 6kg fronts/5kg rears, there's 30 clicks of adjustment, so as hard or soft as you want them. Make sure you get the later one's with rubber tops on rears. You could opt for a lower spring rate, 5kg/4kg if running low 300's hp.
I have the 6/5's on my 03 blobeye wagon and they are much better than the 03 sti blobeye shocks/prodrive springs which I had before. my car is forged and runs mid 400, used for road and track.
I can't see any issues fitting shocks/springs from a non-widetrack blobeye sti, the problem would be finding a low mileage set.
Trev

Jay Cartay

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Trev, that's useful. Would 6/5 springs make for a comfortable fast road setup, or should I go for one of the other options? I gather I'd have to run the rears at a stiffer setting than the fronts, rather than say 5 clicks front, 5 clicks rear etc.?

The thing I am most confused about here is the top mounts. I was convinced wagons had a different type to saloons, which I would have thought meant you needed coilovers made specifically for the wagon? That's the crux of my issue really.

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi there

Really depends what you want,something like specific wagon shocks or coilovers doesn't exist,but some companies over in US starting to making them like is yellow Koni with Swift springs or RaceComp,Tokico and few others like is Turn In Concept(those are available I think only on special order),but usually people rather go with coilovers than expensive route of the shocks and springs

For coilovers really depends on the budget,you don't want stiff springs on the wagon

Thanks,Jura

trevsjwood

iTrader: (2)

the difference is the wagon rear tops are easier to get at for adjustment, on the saloon you need the adjustment extenders.
I run mine at 8 all round for normal road use. For track it's down to conditions, too hard in the wet and it skates all over the place. I pull a 23ft caravan with my car and I wind the clicks up to mid twenties and it's rock solid, I p-ss pass any 4x4.
My car weighs 1520kg as I have the sti gearbox so you might consider the 5/4 for your set-up. I wouldn't have a stiffer setting in the rear, it seems to work best on an all round setting.
Trev

RS_Matt

I've just had BC coilovers fitted and they are the best mod that I've had done to date, the ride is hard though.

Handling is significantly better and I lower and raise the car more often than I change my grundies.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Jay,

The springs where the red Eibach spec for the Blob STI.

You may want to consider KYB AGX which are adjustable (8 way on the rear and 4 on the front) and not made of concrete like coilovers. Think Audi S-Line, all image and no substance.

Jay Cartay

iTrader: (3)

Is yours a wagon Matt?

I don't want the coilovers if they will make long distance trips leave me feeling like I traveled there packed up in the boot! It's very important to me that they are at least close to stock STi levels of compliance.

I ran those springs on stock STi shocks on my Hawk actually. Thought it was a fantastic setup. I've seen the KYB AGX, but then you're spending just as much as you would on coilovers and then buying top mounts. That does put me off a bit.

I haven't seen any BCs with rubber top mounts BTW. All the ones I've seen for sale so far have the orange metal ones.

As for the rear springs, the rear of the wagon is 20kg heavier so surely it will sag if you don't run stiff springs?

I'm confused!

RS_Matt

Mines a saloon, the settings on mine are set half way (16 clicks) so a softer ride might be possible. Don't think by much though.

trevsjwood

iTrader: (2)

I bought mine 12 months ago and they were then a year old, they have rear rubber topmounts.
I don't know were you get the rear is heavier, the engine and gearbox is on the front axle, springrates are higher in the front. The front of any front engined vehicle is front biased.
Trev

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Here you go.

Jay Cartay

iTrader: (3)

That looks great, but do you get any issues when loaded up etc?

No no, you've misunderstood me. I meant the rear of a Wagon is 20kg heavier than a saloon!

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi Jay

Here is picture how our wagon looks on stock shocks and Pi springs





And about the BC with rubber top mounts,you can choose them like with rubber top mounts or with pillowball and I would choose rubber top mounts

Rubber Top mounts on BC



And here you can choose what you want

http://www.bc-racing.co.uk/applicati...ot-sti-05.html

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

Jay Cartay

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Jura!

I emailed BC to ask them directly. Just in case it helps anyone else in the future, here is what they said:

I think this is the route I am going to go, and hope to God it's not too harsh!!

BTW I looked at the RM series BC's as well. Are they better than the BR, being that they are inverted and more expensive?

Jay Cartay

iTrader: (3)

Well an update to this....

I bought a set of 3 month old STi shocks and springs from a breaker on here, and have bought some Eibach springs for a bug eye as the shocks are off a bug eye.

Was very happy, all set to get it all on the car when it comes.

Then last night I read some stuff that stated that the rear shocks on a wagon are different. I thought it was just the springs.

I am now very worried that I have wasted my money and made a costly mistake. If I put these STi saloon shocks on and the rear end sags, I will have to take them straight back off. Feel a bit gutted really. I don't seem to be having much luck with this stuff at the minute.

I guess my only real hope is that it is in fact the springs that make the difference and the wagon specific rears are purely made to ensure you keep the correct amount of camber. I know saloon shocks will reduce this and need camber bolts to get it back right.

Can anyone offer any insight into this?

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi Jay

What I know,yes rear one are slightly different and springs are same what I know,specific wagon springs what I've only seen has been OE springs

You didn't make costly mistake,shocks will fit yours wagon,you will need to use camber bolts

Many people run STI inverted on their wagons without the problems

Thanks,Jura

Jay Cartay

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Jura, but will I have a saggy rear end? Will it sit too low?

If so, I'd rather not use them.

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi Jay

I would say you shouldn't have,but this depends on springs,some people using saggy butt spacers something like this

http://www.fastwrx.com/products/saggy-butt-spacers

And here is how to install them

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?p=22870983

I think I've seen them too on the eBay

Thanks,Jura

modrich

iTrader: (2)

Not sure about how coilovers work in this scenario but with standard struts, be it OEM Subaru, KYB or inverted or non-inverted there is one main difference between saloon and wagon struts, the bottom 2 bolt bracket is wider by about 10mm on the saloon to account for wider track. If you fit saloon shocks to a wagon, according to the US forums you with lose 1/2deg of neg camber, but if you fit wagon struts to saloon you gain similar amount. So it isn't recommend to fit saloon specific struts to wagon on this basis.

Wagon KYB Excel-G on left, saloon on right...


If you buy aftermarket uprated springs like Prodrive/PCL Dynamics/Eibach then saloon/wagon are the same. I Have PCA Dynamics springs with KYB Excel-G struts on my wagon and look perfect...

Jay Cartay

iTrader: (3)

Cheers Modrich, the side by side comparison really brings it home.

Going to have to cut my losses and either get a refund or resell the STI shocks. It's not really the breaker's fault that I've got this wrong, so if he doesn't want to refund I won't hold it against him.

Just really annoyed with myself. And it sucks that I will either have to reuse my WRX top mounts or spend even more on new ones.....

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi Jay

As I said on yours threads,you can fit STI shocks and springs on yours without the problems although as I've posted link on the saggy butt spacers they should cure this issue if you will have issue,this cost just 25USD with shipping I would say extra 10USD and you have nice and sorted combo,its not expensive route

Top mounts on STI or WRX are same,there is no difference between the saloon/sedan and wagon version

How much did you pay for STI shocks and springs?

Thanks,Jura

ZX-TT

I have had saloon sti shocks and springs on my wagon and it sat fine, I know have BC's on her from a saloon and drives perfect.

I also have a set of pro sport coilvers for sale if you get stuck

modrich

iTrader: (2)

Interesting Jura/ZX-TT, have you noted any geo changes/restrictions to camber with the wider bottom brackets on the struts? Have you fitted newage alloy wishbones at the front?

ZX-TT

I just fitted camber bolts to the rear and had a full geo set up done. Car is driving lovely.

I am about to fit STI alloy wishbones and arbs with my 6 speed conversion so willhave to have it set up again after

Jay Cartay

iTrader: (3)

Hmm... I guess I will give it a try then, but I will be massively pissed if I waste £140 on geo and have to do it again if the shocks don't sit right lol.

I don't know if I want to be buying the saggy butt spacers really as you aren't actually addressing the issue of the rear struts being more compressed at rest than they should be.

ZX-TT

Well i have a set of mint coilovers that will do the job if you decide to change lol