NO BS rolling road shootout...................
28 May 2002, 05:44 PM
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I'm the motorsport/race engineer at G-Force Motorsport in Aylesbury. I just want to gauge some interest in a rolling road shootout on our new 1800bhp rolling road.
We are organising shootouts with the Mitsubishi Lancer Register, and the Skyline GTR club in the near future - aswell as the Porsche club (since we are Porsche specialists).
In late Summer we want to run the best 4-5 from each group together to settle the grudges. Just thought some of you may be interested in knowing who has the most horsepower on the most accurate measurement system short of a engine dyno. This system uses a load cell which will accurately measure tractive effort and horsepower to within 1.5bhp at 1200bhp. We use temperature, pressure and humidity compensation to ensure all power figures are accurate, and we use an air/fuel ratio meter to monitor your car's fueling so it won't run too lean during a power test and self-destruct.
Our dyno will do 1200bhp at the rear wheels, and 1800bhp at all four wheels - with NO wheelspin. We can accurately control the roller loading so all runs are done in 3rd gear. The roller loading ensures you get the right boost pressures and power, without the intercoolers getting too hot, which can be a problem when running in high gears.
The dyno cell has 5 ventilation fans, and two exhaust fans to ensure the cell does not get too hot, and your car's engine and intercoolers run cold.A twin turbo V8 was power tested in a shootout in January on an identical rolling road - with a deadly accurate 1072bhp at the wheels. NO wheelspin and NO excuses.
You can find more information at www.g-force-motorsport.co.uk
Let me know if you're interested.
We are organising shootouts with the Mitsubishi Lancer Register, and the Skyline GTR club in the near future - aswell as the Porsche club (since we are Porsche specialists).
In late Summer we want to run the best 4-5 from each group together to settle the grudges. Just thought some of you may be interested in knowing who has the most horsepower on the most accurate measurement system short of a engine dyno. This system uses a load cell which will accurately measure tractive effort and horsepower to within 1.5bhp at 1200bhp. We use temperature, pressure and humidity compensation to ensure all power figures are accurate, and we use an air/fuel ratio meter to monitor your car's fueling so it won't run too lean during a power test and self-destruct.
Our dyno will do 1200bhp at the rear wheels, and 1800bhp at all four wheels - with NO wheelspin. We can accurately control the roller loading so all runs are done in 3rd gear. The roller loading ensures you get the right boost pressures and power, without the intercoolers getting too hot, which can be a problem when running in high gears.
The dyno cell has 5 ventilation fans, and two exhaust fans to ensure the cell does not get too hot, and your car's engine and intercoolers run cold.A twin turbo V8 was power tested in a shootout in January on an identical rolling road - with a deadly accurate 1072bhp at the wheels. NO wheelspin and NO excuses.
You can find more information at www.g-force-motorsport.co.uk
Let me know if you're interested.
29 May 2002, 12:21 AM
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Quote from the site:
"To overcome the problems associated with estimating drivetrain losses to determine flywheel horsepower – as performed by other rolling road systems – this rolling road system measures power at the wheels"
But, er, erm, most chassis dynos do measure power at the wheels (well Maha/SunRams do). They then use temperature, pressure and roll down drag to determine the power at the flywheel (this is the bit that is always contended). They also have a gas bench for fueling etc. So no difference there.
The only difference is that this dyno appears to have an airflow controled enviroment (dyno cell), they *may* tie down the cars differently (but pictures show normal tie down straps) and the actual widget for measuring load is different.
More info at: http://www.dyno.com.au but to be honest doesn't look much different from any other modern chassis dyno apart from the obvious difference of being able to handle higher loads, especially for high power RWD cars.
Prices appear to be 55 + VAT for power run or 82.50 an hour + VAT for diagnostic work. Not too out of sorts.
Oh, and as there are other respected dyno operators advertising on this BBS, it might be worth your while to get an banner advert.
Cheers
Ian
"To overcome the problems associated with estimating drivetrain losses to determine flywheel horsepower – as performed by other rolling road systems – this rolling road system measures power at the wheels"
But, er, erm, most chassis dynos do measure power at the wheels (well Maha/SunRams do). They then use temperature, pressure and roll down drag to determine the power at the flywheel (this is the bit that is always contended). They also have a gas bench for fueling etc. So no difference there.
The only difference is that this dyno appears to have an airflow controled enviroment (dyno cell), they *may* tie down the cars differently (but pictures show normal tie down straps) and the actual widget for measuring load is different.
More info at: http://www.dyno.com.au but to be honest doesn't look much different from any other modern chassis dyno apart from the obvious difference of being able to handle higher loads, especially for high power RWD cars.
Prices appear to be 55 + VAT for power run or 82.50 an hour + VAT for diagnostic work. Not too out of sorts.
Oh, and as there are other respected dyno operators advertising on this BBS, it might be worth your while to get an banner advert.
Cheers
Ian
29 May 2002, 12:14 PM
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why would a company who have no interest in subaru tuning, who are well established in the porsche tuning world need to take out a banner add, just because they fancied offering a roilling road shoot out against some other cars?
I dont think it is faior to jump on people like this for advertising funds, just for suggesting a one off day at a rolling road which a lot of people on here would find interesting.
surely responses like thtis are going to disuade "outsiders" from choosing to visit this board in future.
I dont think it is faior to jump on people like this for advertising funds, just for suggesting a one off day at a rolling road which a lot of people on here would find interesting.
surely responses like thtis are going to disuade "outsiders" from choosing to visit this board in future.
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29 May 2002, 12:47 PM
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tho it pains me to say it, i do have to agree with Adam a little here 
Its not like the company above has posted selling subaru components, he's just invited us to use his facilities.
Personally i don't see a huge problem in it providing he's not offering it every day for the next month hehehhe
As Adam states if we keep stiffling new posters and they stop offering, not only we will miss out but we also run the risk of not being made aware of alternative companies and becoming so insular we disappear up a tight hairy crack.....
just my tuppence, am sure the mods will deal with as necessary if they feel the need.
Its not like the company above has posted selling subaru components, he's just invited us to use his facilities.
Personally i don't see a huge problem in it providing he's not offering it every day for the next month hehehhe
As Adam states if we keep stiffling new posters and they stop offering, not only we will miss out but we also run the risk of not being made aware of alternative companies and becoming so insular we disappear up a tight hairy crack.....
just my tuppence, am sure the mods will deal with as necessary if they feel the need.
29 May 2002, 03:17 PM
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We heard you the first time...
Keep us posted of the date, I wouldn't mind spectating
Justin
Keep us posted of the date, I wouldn't mind spectating
Justin
29 May 2002, 03:57 PM
#12
Stephen, SIDC has nothing to do with scoobynet so i dont see why he should contact them?
If anyone is to ask the person to take out a banner add it's the Moderators or Simon. I dont see any problems with this post personally.
cheers
john
If anyone is to ask the person to take out a banner add it's the Moderators or Simon. I dont see any problems with this post personally.
cheers
john
29 May 2002, 03:58 PM
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Thanks for the response. We're looking at a potential day for subaru/lancer/GTR in about 6-7 weeks. I'm flat out at the moment with Le Mans 24Hr preparations.
Just to clarify a couple of points:
You have to be very carefull when quoting power figures from rolling roads. The only way to determine flywheel horsepower with any accuracy is on a reliable engine dyno.
You have to ensure the temperature compensations are accurate to give repeatable horsepower figures, and you have to ensure the transmission losses (if they are performed) sound accurate and reasonable.
To illustrate the point have a look at a couple of runs on the Dynomite Scoobies UK Turbo page.
1. Lee Christie's 99MY - a difference of 5bhp at the wheels and 14bhp at the flywheel depending upon whether it is a cold or warm day. With accurate and repeatable temp./press./humidity compensation this houldn't be the case.
2. Stephen Done's 99MY - a car that produces 153 wheel bhp and 243 flywheel bhp with no modifications; and 216 wheel bhp and 292 flywheel bhp with all of his modifications. If the coastdown losses and flywheel horsepower figures are accurate how does an improvement of 63bhp at the wheels only increase the flywheel bhp by 49bhp?
Just beware!!
Obviously due to Porsche commitments we don't visit this board everyday. However I will keep you posted when some confirmed dates are finalised.
We're entertaining getting involved with the Subaru's, as we know the guys at Possum Bourne Sport in New Zealand personally, and a couple of serious subaru rally prep guys in Melbourne, Australia aswell. Thses guys are getting 500+bhp out of their scoobies (some road registered) without engines blowing themselves to pieces. When a decision is made at our end you'll be the first to know.
Just to clarify a couple of points:
You have to be very carefull when quoting power figures from rolling roads. The only way to determine flywheel horsepower with any accuracy is on a reliable engine dyno.
You have to ensure the temperature compensations are accurate to give repeatable horsepower figures, and you have to ensure the transmission losses (if they are performed) sound accurate and reasonable.
To illustrate the point have a look at a couple of runs on the Dynomite Scoobies UK Turbo page.
1. Lee Christie's 99MY - a difference of 5bhp at the wheels and 14bhp at the flywheel depending upon whether it is a cold or warm day. With accurate and repeatable temp./press./humidity compensation this houldn't be the case.
2. Stephen Done's 99MY - a car that produces 153 wheel bhp and 243 flywheel bhp with no modifications; and 216 wheel bhp and 292 flywheel bhp with all of his modifications. If the coastdown losses and flywheel horsepower figures are accurate how does an improvement of 63bhp at the wheels only increase the flywheel bhp by 49bhp?
Just beware!!
Obviously due to Porsche commitments we don't visit this board everyday. However I will keep you posted when some confirmed dates are finalised.
We're entertaining getting involved with the Subaru's, as we know the guys at Possum Bourne Sport in New Zealand personally, and a couple of serious subaru rally prep guys in Melbourne, Australia aswell. Thses guys are getting 500+bhp out of their scoobies (some road registered) without engines blowing themselves to pieces. When a decision is made at our end you'll be the first to know.
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