Why is the governement taxing the rail system?
 

Maybe I heard this wrong, but National Express just paid the government £1.4 BILLION pounds for the right to operate the old GNER train routes. :cuckoo:

Oh, and then they announce fairs are going to go up :mad:

Any other government would want a train service to be well run, whats the point in sucking £1.4b out of company that is going to try and run them for you. Like that is going to make fairs lower, and encourage investment :mad:

With talk like that you will be nationalising the rail sector next.

Oh, we already tried and failed at that ;)

Conversely - why should I, the tax payer, pay to subsidise the rail service. I enjoyed the benefits of selling mobile cellular licenses so why not enjoy the benefits of selling the rail network licenses?

Oh, just looked up a little more info....the government are spinning this as a great deal for the taxpayer as.......wait for it................................

They are going to spend £7.4m to upgrade stations and 400k on environment issues.

I wonder why that investment could seems really small...ah yes, its the fact that the gov just took £1.4b for the right to run trains to 2015 :mad:

The way I see it is that when you board a train
a) you pay a fair amount for your travel
b) you pay for a company to make a profit
c) you pay a massive tax to the gov for the licence

Thats just not a good deal for us. If you want it privatized, at least don't rob the companies that do this blind, so that in turn travel costs are extortionate.

Sounds good to me :luxhello:
Are the fairs going to be at the stations, so we can use them while we wait for the train?

I read somewhere We are paying more tax in rail subsidies than when the network was nationalized

It is absolute nonsense and I'm surprised the green lobby dont give them a harder time.

It is clear to me that the reason I drive to London is that it is cheaper than taking the train (£110 2nd class return from Cardiff - unless you book it during a full moon, a week in advance, and have a surname that ends in a 'z'...).

They purposefully price people OFF the trains due to over crowding/insufficient service at peak times. I would honestly prefer to get the coffee and laptop out and get some work done, bit NOT at £110 a ticket!!!

RYAN AIR lets be havin' you on the ground PLEASE!!!

D

Actually - thinking about your logic you are right.

We should model our corporate governance and taxation on the PE sector where the average growth of the major PE syndicates is measured in billions and they pay a very fair amount of tax.

Nothing.

Seems like the right call to me as it encourages growth and fair competition and no individual could ever be concerned that there was any government interference in the fair price that they pay for their goods and services. :)

Let me get this straight - you are complaining that the Government are charging companies rather than paying them taxpayers money ....... AND YOU ARE CRYING ABOUT IT????? :eek: :rolleyes:

It was once called PUBLIC transport R. Thought that concept was coming back in vogue due to environmental concerns - let alone quality of life?

20p on a bus in Norway from one end of Oslo to the other. You'd need a mortgage in this isle to do the same. It should not all be about the dollar or boardroom bonuses in ALL things. Some things are basics and the irony is that most 'non basic' travel costs whips their arses on price...cheaper to fly to Greece than get a train to London FFS!

D

On the one hand they take on the other hand they give 6.4billion a year in subsidies:p

So, whats the complaint then??? :confused:

Yes and the bonuses/subsidies go to fat cats who's H&S is appaling and their service overpriced, dirty and etc etc....

Been doing some research on the real figures...

Forecast of 20m passenger journeys per year for the remainder of the franchise. That is 140m journeys. So this works out at £10 per ticket.

The average price of a GNER train from Newcastle to London is £90, the average for easyJET is £100 (government figures) and the flight then will cost even more to get to the centre of London.

Average fares for all GNER journeys is around £45 and the average first class fare is around £250.

I personally travel on average twice a week paying full first class ticket to I must be massively subsidising the average ticket loading in terms of license fee. Advance tickets are freely available after 8.40am and I use them if the timing is convenient - usually pay between 30-50% of the full fare.

Seems pretty good to me :)

PS As tickets do not attract VAT there is a strange coincidence that the average license premium is about the same level as VAT would be ;)

Because the taxpayer will eventually have to pay the steep rail fares demanded so it is effectively another stealth tax.

When the railways were nationalised the taxpayer subsidised them directly at a cheaper price then now when the authorities and the private investors make extra profit out of us.

Les

That's right Leslie. Private subcontractors do no make a penny out of nationalised services :rolleyes:

R, I take it your company actually pays, and not you? So benevolent!!!

My 'global' experience is that our public transport i VASTLY inefficient and overpriced - even when fares aree tax deductible!!! Third world countries have better and more accesible services - honestl So please, could do better/cheaper attitude is very appropriate, whatever your daily rate.

D

Well yes - but I own the company :)

I have travelled in many countries and I agree we could do better. However there are not that many third world countries that have better services, unless you call sitting on the roof better, because if you sit inside you have a goat for company in the next seat.

BTW - for me to fly costs considerably more unless I get the late morning flight and the last flight home. Then I have to put up with Heathrow which is now a complete mess, especially British Airways.

What rolling stock are National Express going to use? Are threy expecting GNER to just give them their ex BR (and recently very expensively upgraded/modernised) 225's?

I'll happily sit on the roof if I can get to London for 6p rather than £110!!! Do they charge if I bring my chickens too;)

I never was sure about the logic of privatisation of sectors that rely primarily on infrastructure which was funded by taxpayers in the past - for example railways, hydro electric, water etc.

The nationalised railways employed their own well trained workers to maintain the tracks and infrastructure. They did it very well and our railways were the envy of the world. A big difference to what we have seen in recent years by private contractors who just don't even do the safety work that they were contracted to do! Look at the fatalities because of their incompetent performancees! All this was covered by the subsidies from the taxes and was a lot cheaper than today's costs for grossly inferior work.

Your sarcasm is misplaced Rannoch, and it does you no favours!

Les