Front mount..... lag
 

Well the front mounts on and the apexi induction. Took the car out today for the first time and its awful. OK, the car has been mapped but not for the fmic/ apexi. 1 bar at 4300rpm, mapped for 1.4 peak, didn't take it any further than 1 bar, just my luck something would go wrong. Will this get sorted when it goes in for a map tweek? Is this normal? My mate put a fmic and induction on his without any issues. Is that because its standard apart from decat.

cheers

I found this when i fitted my Autobahn88 FMIC, made the car much slower, so i fitted a bigger turbo and got it remapped, this improved things but, still feels quite laggy on gear changes.
Going to be changing it for a Hybrid GT spec next week in a hope to reduce the lag as it has 15% better flow rates.

MY00 uk, td05 16g. Hope it gets sorted as its really cr@p to drive. What other turbo options are there.

By fitting a FMIC you have increased the charge area, thus there is now more space for the turbo to pressurize with air, hence the lag!
Simple!

you will need to get it mapped again with the FMIC, as it will make the car run very lean !!! about 25% lean :eek:

i currently have a HKS FMIC with a VF35. the spool is quick enough for everyday driving

LOL I've got the exact opposite problem with my FMIC/VF35 - it spools up too quick and results in compressor surge!

i have that problem as well, but you can adjust your driving style to suit it ;)

Personally I would check for air leaks. I have had similar with a monster fmic. mapped for 1.2 bar, max I am seeing on the power fc is .90 bar (was much worse than that originally)

I have had my Autobahn88 fmic on now for around a year [v5 type r].
When I initially fitted it, it was with the std. ecu and it felt awful compared to the tmic, since then I've had a Gems ecu fitted and mapped to the fmic .

From the engines point of view... no matter how hard its driven or hot ambient temps are, there's no det/knocklink activity. With the tmic, the knocklink would light up after a few mins. of WOT... But don't know how much this is due to the fmic or the mapping as I drove steady with the fmic till mapped with the Gems.

From the driving point of view... I,m still missing the feeling the car had with the tmic:( the throttle cable now feels like its made from elastic and although the car has more power/torque now since being mapped, it is no where near as good on anything other than full throttle. also getting some surge from the std. vf28.

I've been toying with the idea of a bigger turbo... one with similar spool to the vf28 [so as not to add additional lag] but shifts a much bigger volume of air to more quickly fill the pipework, the md321h seems a good candidate but can't help thinking it would be even better on a nice big tmic or even a good chargecooler setup:norty: Wonder how many have actually gone back to a tmic?

The Litchfield type25 runs 400+ with a warranty on a tmic.
Andy F has a spec c with a 2.5, 380bhp, 420+ lbs.ft. and tmic. for the road.
Steve Simpson has similar.

tmic for the road, fmic for the track IMO.

450bhp, 480lb/ft now. :norty:

Very nice...and still on the std. tmiic?

Bet that makes for a stunning, responsive road car:D

IIRC Scoobyclinic also run their 25B on a large tmic for similar figures.

Was chatting to Andy on Saturday - his Spec C produces about 450bhp and spools at 2200 revs !!

You cannot compare the performance of the latest OE TMICs with those of earlier models.
A well designed FMIC will not add appreciable lag if the car is properly mapped.
Even with mild tuning on Classic cars it is quite easy to exceed 70 deg.C induction charge temperature measured at the throttle body. If you doubt this and have a Classic model just fit an ACT guage.
If you calculate the additional air volume from an FMIC installation over the OE setup and compare it with the volume of air consumed by the engine on boost you will see that the effect will be marginal.

get an VF23 same as the one on the 22B good for mid-top end

harvey,

do you mean to say, that even running with one of the latest OE TMIC and associated hardware, a Classic cannot produce similar thermal efficiency to a New Age car?

The Scoobyclinic Classic 25B runs a large Hyperflow TMIC with around 480/460 IIRC from its 2.5L

I'd recommend the OE Sti 7/8/9 intercooler to anyone way before a FMIC.
As mentioned above my 01 Spec C with a 2.5 short motor is running 440bhp and 480 lbft torque. This is still running the std Sti7 tmic and totally standard non ported headers.

The set up is very low lag and ideal for the road. Only if I was intending doing regular track stuff where you can be flat out for 10 laps or so would I consider a fmic.

Andy

Andy,

Is there anything to suggest that this setup would perform less effectively on a classic?

Is there any cooling improvment to be gained from the larger Hyperflow or APS alternatives?

Cheers.

What turbo are you using on that spec c? I'm in the middle of making a list of bits for a 2.5 conversion on my classic at present. I was going to go for all out power to begin with but now I'm dead set on making the car as driveable as possible. Was thinking of simply a 20g and aiming for high 3xx's so would be very interested in your set up given the power it produces and how quickly it spools.

Andy is using an MD321T, which seems to be turbo of choice for the 2.5 at the moment.

Banny

Just been out in a P1 with an Autobahn FMIC, td05-16g FE and AVCR and saw over 1.6bar at 3700rpm. So not too laggy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but spool is the point in the rev range that the turbo produces boost, lag if the time it take for the turbo to spool from no boost to full boost when you hit the throttle higher in the rev range.

See here under "What is turbo lag (and how do I avoid it)?"

Turbochargers 101

Damo

You're right Damo, they are 2 different things although they are often closely linked. The spoolpoint or boost threshold on an FMIC is less likely to change, its the time to spool up when coming off/on boost that can feel a bit delayed.

FWIW my race car is going back on a TMIC this year :)

Borat - I am currently running a MD321T which for its size spools very well, not quite as quick as a 20G which on a 2.5 spools like a td04 on a 2.0

S5oob - No reason other than there is less room to fit a big TMIC on some of the earlier classics. I have not done back to back tests on the same car with the APS/Hyperflow so can't comment on the difference compared to the Sti unit.

Andy

I'm seriously considering going back to a TMIC after fitting a FMIC. The throttle response is far less crisp on the FMIC - akin to having the throttle connected with a piece of elastic! It spools up just as quickly in the rev range - it's just that gear changes at high revs (ie while in the boost range) result in around half a second delay between planting the throttle and the car accelerating again. Not a massive effect, but enough to be noticable and to diminish driveability. It's probably worse as I've been used to driving cars fitted with throttle bodies (instant response), but this is a pure road car and I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of ultimate power for more driveability

As long ago as 1990 I recall an article in the first edition of Fast Car (it was informative and factual at the time), which discussed induction length. It stated for normal road use it was vital to keep induction length to a minimum on turbocharged cars. It also showed a photo of an old Nissan 280zx with an aftermarket turbo conversion and stated with an exclamation mark that the induction length was over two metres. I am sure in an Impreza the length is probably even longer.

Ok, I'm a bit confused. I was thinking of going down the FMIC route and would appreciate some advice.

I have a UK classic running 320bhp, which I understand is about the limit of the std intercooler. I was thinking of upgrading to a FMIC as my understanding was that this would result in significantly lower charge temps than even the V7,8,9 TMICs and deal with sustained boost better. I also thought that whatever TMIC you go for, heatsoak will still be an issue when sitting in traffic owing to its position. I was informed that any increase in lag from a decent set up like Harvery's Hybrid would be negligable.

So, would I just be better off getting a V7, 8, 9 intercooler then?

Ns04

Will an STi V7/8/9 intercooler go straight on an 05MY WRX? I'm planning to replace the turbo and get a remap, but I've seen STi intercoolers going cheap on eBay ;) If I could put one of those on before getting the turbo fitted I guess I could get most benefit out of the turbo upgrade at little cost. I'd need to be able to fit the intercooler myself tho. Any advice gratefully received

D

Hi, I'm about to get an STi8 intercooler myself. I undertand they're easy to fit, but I too would appreciate any instructions on how to remove the old intercooler and fit the STi one.

Andy

New Scooby and DaiJones - I have an STI8 intercooler and associated fittings here for sale. PM me if you're interested. New Scooby - having made the switch to FMIC myself, I've found the throttle response to be rather disappointing. Having said that, there's a lot of subjectivity and I know others here are perfectly happy with FMIC throttle response. However, unless you intend on doing trackdays and/or traffic light grand prixs, I think an uprated top mount offers most of the performance with more driveability

Here's a good guide on fitting STI8 TMIC to a classic. I should imagine the fitment back onto a newage would be very similar, just ignore the bits where they needed to modify to get it on. Apparently two big screwdrivers and brute strength are the key to getting it seperated from the throttle body pipe - and heating it up to make it pliable is the key to getting it back on.

https://www.scoobynet.com/projects-4...0-classic.html

Cheers funky !:)