Originally Posted by scooby2.5maz
(Post 11564221)
What power level is safe ? I have run 575 on a 2.5 scd with a pinned block , the same block then did time attack at over mid 600 bhp ! Maybe it was luck ? Maybe bad news travels fast ? Most builders seem to say keep the 2.5 to 450 ish and you'll be ok :p !
When I need a build next it will be going to alyn at as performance for closed decking :thumb: Maz ;) |
Originally Posted by Tidgy
(Post 11564233)
pick a tuner, speak to them about you want, get them to spec and build it, install it etc. you can take the best parts in the world but if they are mismatched it will be a crap car.
Originally Posted by JGlanzaV
(Post 11564239)
What Maz said really, some engines are just capable of doing more, Im running mid to late 500's on an open deck 2.0.... *touch wood*
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Originally Posted by Dubzy
(Post 11564261)
That is what im doing mate, im just doing as much homework as poosible before i dive in :thumb:
Crickey, how long have you running at that power for ??? forged wrx engine ?? |
Originally Posted by JGlanzaV
(Post 11564264)
2.1 stroker and its done 25k+ miles now at that power
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Originally Posted by scooby2.5maz
(Post 11564221)
What power level is safe ? I have run 575 on a 2.5 scd with a pinned block , the same block then did time attack at over mid 600 bhp ! Maybe it was luck ? Maybe bad news travels fast ? Most builders seem to say keep the 2.5 to 450 ish and you'll be ok :p !
When I need a build next it will be going to alyn at as performance for closed decking :thumb: Maz ;) The 2.6 ive built with a pinned block is only because a Customer ordered the block then decided to go CDB, so I used it for the 2.6, i'm not planning on running much over 400, I just want a nice, non laggy 400 ish. Steve Simpson put a running in map on it and it made 350/400 at 3500 on actuator pressure :-) I tend to use AS Performance for my CDB's now, they are not that expensive and add peace of mind. I'll post a picture of a recent build shortly. As for the reliabilty of the 2.5's, I built a forged scdb about 2 years ago, uts been running 430bhp and been a daily driver and track day car for around 20K, it came back for a refresh as it was suffering with a headgasket problem (Cometics) and other than that it was perfect. |
Originally Posted by wms-racing
(Post 11564551)
A 2.5 forged short engine at £2500 is a scdb, for a closed deck it would be £3000.
The 2.6 ive built with a pinned block is only because a Customer ordered the block then decided to go CDB, so I used it for the 2.6, i'm not planning on running much over 400, I just want a nice, non laggy 400 ish. Steve Simpson put a running in map on it and it made 350/400 at 3500 on actuator pressure :-) I tend to use AS Performance for my CDB's now, they are not that expensive and add peace of mind. I'll post a picture of a recent build shortly. As for the reliabilty of the 2.5's, I built a forged scdb about 2 years ago, uts been running 430bhp and been a daily driver and track day car for around 20K, it came back for a refresh as it was suffering with a headgasket problem (Cometics) and other than that it was perfect. |
Originally Posted by Dubzy
(Post 11564566)
Thanks for all the info its much appreciated. out of interest what do you charge for a 2.1 short motor ??
Block bored and faces skimmed Mahle 4032 or 4618 pistons ej257 heat treated crank acl race series mains and big ends Williams H beam rods, arp bolts Subaru 11mm oil pump, new front and rear seas oil pickup new sump fitted |
2.5cdb from Alyn, fully forged with JE pistons, this went into an 08 Hatch
http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/a...916_105733.jpg |
Originally Posted by wms-racing
(Post 11564605)
2.5cdb from Alyn, fully forged with JE pistons, this went into an 08 Hatch
http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/a...916_105733.jpg |
Originally Posted by wms-racing
(Post 11564598)
A 2.1 to the following spec is £2500 up to 450bhp £2600 for over that in a scdb, or +£500 in a cdb
Block bored and faces skimmed Mahle 4032 or 4618 pistons ej257 heat treated crank acl race series mains and big ends Williams H beam rods, arp bolts Subaru 11mm oil pump, new front and rear seas oil pickup new sump fitted |
Originally Posted by scooby2.5maz
(Post 11565104)
:luvlove::luvlove::luvlove:
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Originally Posted by Dubzy
(Post 11564539)
Tried and tested then and sounds like you have a nice strong motor. Who built it if you dont mind saying ??
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Originally Posted by JGlanzaV
(Post 11565186)
Engine tuner
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I know there is no definative answer to this as there are too many variables but in general when you have had a forged engine built and pushing close or maybe slightly beyond power wise to what its rated to how long do you expect it to last without an overhaual or how many miles rather ???
My only real previous experience was with owning a rwd cossie for ten years and in that time had 3 complete rebuilds and none lasted for more than 25k miles and using different engine builders. I guess thats what i would be hoping for now as thats the only experience i have lol. |
Originally Posted by Dubzy
(Post 11565193)
I know there is no definative answer to this as there are too many variables but in general when you have had a forged engine built and pushing close or maybe slightly beyond power wise to what its rated to how long do you expect it to last without an overhaual or how many miles rather ???
My only real previous experience was with owning a rwd cossie for ten years and in that time had 3 complete rebuilds and none lasted for more than 25k miles and using different engine builders. I guess thats what i would be hoping for now as thats the only experience i have lol. |
Originally Posted by Dubzy
(Post 11565144)
I think this is what i will be going for maz..
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Originally Posted by wms-racing
(Post 11565233)
Assuming the build is good with the right components, correct clearances etc.the next thing is the quality of the mapping, there are mappers, and mappers! After that it's very much down to servicing and how hard its used. The 2.5 I built 2 years ago, running 430bhp and a variety of daily driving and some track day use has proven to be 99% reliable, only the recent headgasket issue really, this has been rectified with some Cosworth gaskets and a slight drop in CR. The bores, pistons and bearings looked like new.
Warm it up, cool it sown, change the oil, get gauges to monitor what is going on ect. Is the other big factor in making it last. Also temper that with the fact that any engine producing big power that is driven real hard, once it is warmed up, will only last so long. Also as JGlanzaV pointed out, a spec gives you an indication of what something will be able to take. But there are many exceptions to the rule, and certain gearboxes /engines take alot more power day in day out than they should do. But they do. So it is not set in stone. |
Hi there
Agree with 2.1L,its great compromise between the good and early spool and high bhp and torque,we are run open deck 2.1L with MDX321T and we are made 452bhp/440lb-ft and on 20% meth 490bhp/480lb-ft But if you are looking to get 2.5L without the CDB insert then as above people recommend to lower yours power target With CDB insert then I would go probably with destroker'd 2.5L which seems is best from both worlds and agree with above guys,I would go with Alyn CDB inserts which been proven on many cars at various bhp levels Hope this help Thanks,Jura |
Originally Posted by wms-racing
(Post 11564598)
A 2.1 to the following spec is £2500 up to 450bhp £2600 for over that in a scdb, or +£500 in a cdb
Block bored and faces skimmed Mahle 4032 or 4618 pistons ej257 heat treated crank acl race series mains and big ends Williams H beam rods, arp bolts Subaru 11mm oil pump, new front and rear seas oil pickup new sump fitted |
Originally Posted by Steve Whitehorn
(Post 11566088)
+1 This
Warm it up, cool it sown, change the oil, get gauges to monitor what is going on ect. Is the other big factor in making it last. Also temper that with the fact that any engine producing big power that is driven real hard, once it is warmed up, will only last so long. Also as JGlanzaV pointed out, a spec gives you an indication of what something will be able to take. But there are many exceptions to the rule, and certain gearboxes /engines take alot more power day in day out than they should do. But they do. So it is not set in stone. |
Originally Posted by jura11
(Post 11566095)
Hi there
Agree with 2.1L,its great compromise between the good and early spool and high bhp and torque,we are run open deck 2.1L with MDX321T and we are made 452bhp/440lb-ft and on 20% meth 490bhp/480lb-ft But if you are looking to get 2.5L without the CDB insert then as above people recommend to lower yours power target With CDB insert then I would go probably with destroker'd 2.5L which seems is best from both worlds and agree with above guys,I would go with Alyn CDB inserts which been proven on many cars at various bhp levels Hope this help Thanks,Jura Also what are the advantages and disadvantages in both bhp and torque and revving ability ?? Is it more expensive to de-stroke the 2.5 as apposed to a regular 2.5 forged build ?? I dont know a great deal about stroking, i know its common to stroke the 2.0 and 2.2 and now becoming common to de-stroke the 2.5 so all a little confusing to me lol.. |
Originally Posted by Dubzy
(Post 11566417)
I think i have pretty much decided on a 2.5 cdb now as the torque is so appealing, Can you please explain what affect de-stroking the 2.5 will have on its strength and power handling capabilities ??
Also what are the advantages and disadvantages in both bhp and torque and revving ability ?? Is it more expensive to de-stroke the 2.5 as apposed to a regular 2.5 forged build ?? I dont know a great deal about stroking, i know its common to stroke the 2.0 and 2.2 and now becoming common to de-stroke the 2.5 so all a little confusing to me lol.. Agree 2.5L torque is appealing,but with 2.5L you will inherent their issues too,but with CDB insert you should be just OK Destrokering 2.5L is very popular in US and now seems too popular over here Advantage of the destroker'd 2.5L is you can rev higher than with 2.5L,in bhp you shouldn't see any difference,in torque figures really depends on the turbo used,but with MDX321V or SC46 or any other standard location turbo,you will loose bit of torque Disadvantage of the destroker'd 2.5L,you will loose some displacement and then you will loose bit of torque,but you will gain on the top end or on the rev ability Not sure if destroker'd 2.5L is more expensive,you will need to use longer rods(+2mm),stroker pistons or custom pistons(I think JE Pistons are available,but I would speak with Alyn,I think he done destroker'd CDB 2.5L or you can speak with Drew) and you will need to use EJ207 crank,apart of that everything should be same and same parts like on standard forged rebuild 2.5L is lazy engine in standard form,agree have more torque,but torque is not everything,I just prefer have more power than torque Hope this help Thanks,Jura |
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Originally Posted by Dubzy
(Post 11566417)
I think i have pretty much decided on a 2.5 cdb now as the torque is so appealing, Can you please explain what affect de-stroking the 2.5 will have on its strength and power handling capabilities ??
Also what are the advantages and disadvantages in both bhp and torque and revving ability ?? Is it more expensive to de-stroke the 2.5 as apposed to a regular 2.5 forged build ?? I dont know a great deal about stroking, i know its common to stroke the 2.0 and 2.2 and now becoming common to de-stroke the 2.5 so all a little confusing to me lol.. PS I will have +2mm rods in stock by the end of the year :-) |
Thanks for all the info guys, A de-stroked 2.5 cdb would seem a good compromise then even if still a little unproven at 500+ compared to a 2.1 but i think its a risk im now prepared to take and i will be keeping my current v8 sti motor to keep me on the road if it all goes wrong lol. Time to start the ball rolling........
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I am going to be running a destroked 2.5 in a pinned block, aiming for a solid 550bhp using a brog warner efr 7670 turbo.
This is the spec as I picked it up used but only covered about 5k ish Tomei +2mm rods Cp custom pistons Acl race bearings Ej25 casings ( pinned ) Drilled for 14mm studs using 14mm-12mm studs 12mm modified oil pump 2.0 rear thrust crank Rcm water pump Billet belt guide Twin scroll sump / pickup 2.5 ringed standard sti heads |
Originally Posted by banny sti
(Post 11567400)
I am going to be running a destroked 2.5 in a pinned block, aiming for a solid 550bhp using a brog warner efr 7670 turbo.
This is the spec as I picked it up used but only covered about 5k ish Tomei +2mm rods Cp custom pistons Acl race bearings Ej25 casings ( pinned ) Drilled for 14mm studs using 14mm-12mm studs 12mm modified oil pump 2.0 rear thrust crank Rcm water pump Billet belt guide Twin scroll sump / pickup 2.5 ringed standard sti heads Stock location on the turbo banny ? Or rotated ? Looks quite big ! Easy fit ? :norty: |
Originally Posted by scooby2.5maz
(Post 11567451)
Stock location on the turbo banny ? Or rotated ? Looks quite big ! Easy fit ? :norty:
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps756705e0.png And how it looked fitted to the previous owner's car but I will be using a front exit exhaust through the bumper http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/u...50B17A1AF2.jpg |
Originally Posted by banny sti
(Post 11567454)
Im going front mounted as its a T4 twin scroll housing with external wastegates. this is the manifold
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps756705e0.png And how it looked fitted to the previous owner's car but I will be using a front exit exhaust through the bumper http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/u...50B17A1AF2.jpg Very nice ! :D , daily driver then ? ;) |
Originally Posted by JGlanzaV
(Post 11565186)
Engine tuner
:) |
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