Originally Posted by New_scooby_04 (Post 10184721)

Work sets you free!

Ns04

Originally Posted by andythejock01wrx (Post 10185118)

Or "Arbeit macht frei"? ;)

Originally Posted by andythejock01wrx (Post 10185118)

Or "Arbeit macht frei"? ;)

Originally Posted by andythejock01wrx (Post 10183735)

Agreed.

However, I can't see any politician having the baws to bring back corporal punishment. I can see it now, solicitors issuing court papers on parents on behalf of poor little mites that have been smacked!

Originally Posted by New_scooby_04 (Post 10185157)

LOL, not quite what I had in mind......

But the literal meaning of the slogan (as opposed to the horiffic association with concentration camps) is very true though!

Originally Posted by specialx (Post 10180477)

Give parents the right to hit their kids again! My morals were helped along by the odd slap from my dad! He showed me in no uncertain terms just how far i could push, where as these toe rags are not!

"what you gonna do about it!"

Originally Posted by TelBoy (Post 10180503)

National Service won't happen because we can't afford it.


We can't afford NOT to, in my opinion, but future invisible savings don't look great on the justification spreadsheet. So on we go, looking for Elastoplast "solutions" that just don't exist.

Originally Posted by ditchmyster (Post 10185461)

My understanding is that the army does not want them either, as most are too stupid to do anything with, so we are back to schools and the education system.

Bring back borstals like north sea camp, or some hard labour paving the pennine way, digging drainage trenches on the north yorkshire moors, sheep farming in the outer hebrides that type of stuff not sat in a warm cell with sky tv a spliff and some hooch.

Originally Posted by Leslie (Post 10185117)

ie. bring the child up to appreciate the need for discipline and the need for consideration of others, and the necessity to accept the need for a strong society.

Les

Originally Posted by foxarm (Post 10180475)

Social protection costs this country £200 billion a year which is totally unsustainable.

Originally Posted by lozgti1 (Post 10186103)

My understanding was that it is a very influential time in their lives.

Get it right then,you might not end up with a rioting scumbag in the future!!

Originally Posted by J4CKO (Post 10186846)

Trouble is that they are taking in all the stuff people are saying and now feel even more hard done by, basically if they dont get what they want in terms of a job, youth schemes and benefits they feel justified in rioting and looting, like entertaining a petulant toddler.

They all cite nothing to do as being the reason for their behaviour, we live in a world nowadays where it is hard to be bored,there is more now than ever before, information about anythign at your fingertips but they dont want to learn, its all about filling their faces, shooting their load, showing off, getting off their tits and getting things for free, i.e. the shortcuts to wealth and respect with all the instant gratification it brings.

In the eighties we had computer games but they were crap, inthe holidays we used to go to the swimming baths and were there for hours, go for bike rides, make airfix models, read books and comics, do Lego, go to the park with some sweets and sit on the swings, go to the river for a swim, go off road on the bikes and do jumps, do our paper rounds, played hide and seek en masse, watch videos, get ready for bonfire night. All seems a bit pathetic, innocent and lame but it was fun.

They dont get a childhood now, by the time they are 12 its not cool to play Lego when your mates are out running drugs, all of them seem to be shagging by the time they are 14, there are reasons why some things you have to wait for, we live 80 plus years, there isnt any real rush to grow up.

Originally Posted by J4CKO (Post 10186846)

Trouble is that they are taking in all the stuff people are saying and now feel even more hard done by, basically if they dont get what they want in terms of a job, youth schemes and benefits they feel justified in rioting and looting, like entertaining a petulant toddler.

They all cite nothing to do as being the reason for their behaviour, we live in a world nowadays where it is hard to be bored,there is more now than ever before, information about anythign at your fingertips but they dont want to learn, its all about filling their faces, shooting their load, showing off, getting off their tits and getting things for free, i.e. the shortcuts to wealth and respect with all the instant gratification it brings.

In the eighties we had computer games but they were crap, inthe holidays we used to go to the swimming baths and were there for hours, go for bike rides, make airfix models, read books and comics, do Lego, go to the park with some sweets and sit on the swings, go to the river for a swim, go off road on the bikes and do jumps, do our paper rounds, played hide and seek en masse, watch videos, get ready for bonfire night. All seems a bit pathetic, innocent and lame but it was fun.

They dont get a childhood now, by the time they are 12 its not cool to play Lego when your mates are out running drugs, all of them seem to be shagging by the time they are 14, there are reasons why some things you have to wait for, we live 80 plus years, there isnt any real rush to grow up.

Originally Posted by tony de wonderful (Post 10186917)

Our society makes a cult of youth though J4CKO. Adverts target teens and young adults with consumer goods fashion etc, media specifically caters to youth at times. Youth are encouraged to seek pleasure and determine their own path - a cult of 'choice'. You have kids saying they are 'consumers' to the schools 'service provider'....it's a power relationships between maturity and immaturity reversed. Youth is not told what to do and want, it is indulged and asked what it should do and want! To be old is to be useless and worn out, good for nothing except to buy 'over 50's life insurance' from Michael Parkinson:lol1: To be old is to be irrelevant.

So immaturity is in the driving seat....it's not working too well!

Originally Posted by Leslie (Post 10188864)

Quite right Tony.

Les

Originally Posted by boomer (Post 10188040)

+100 :thumb:

What the kids of today are missing... imagination!!!!

mb

Originally Posted by tony de wonderful (Post 10189002)

We'll hear more stuff about how we should 'ask the youth what it wants' and what 20 y/o youth workers have to say. We'll have debates on TV with 15 y/o's telling us what they need. We'll hear how 'the Politicians are out of touch with the youth'.

It's bonkers.:lol1:

The youth have been liberated from 'oppression' by the older generation authority figures since the 1960's and this is where it has got us.:lol1:

Originally Posted by Chip (Post 10189102)

Funnily enough I said that the other day.


When I was the same age as these ferals causing all of this mayhem I had no youth clubs to go to either. Nor did we have leisure centres , daytime TV, computers , smartphones . PC games etc etc. No we really did'nt. What we did have in abundance was imagination. We made go-karts from old wood and pram wheels, we played football and rugby in the winter , cricket in the summer. We made rope swings in trees that had treehouses that we had built with a bit of help from Dad. Every summer hols we did bob a job where householders paid us to do little jobs they did not want to do themselves.

Our "gang" was never once cheeky to a copper, nor did we wreck and burn cars, houses and loot shops for the sheer hell of it. We respected our elders and helped them when faced with difficulty.

So just where did it all go wrong?

Chip

Originally Posted by tony de wonderful (Post 10184408)

I think I read somewhere about an African saying along these lines:

"If the village does not initiate the youths then the youths will come and burn down the village"

In a primitive society young men will make the transition from childhood to adulthood via an archetypal event - the initiation. It is often a trial of endurance, strength, discipline, like circumcision, or hunting something, or getting painful tatoos. It's at the pleasure of the those with power (the patriarchy) but it goes both ways because the initiates are then offered 'positions' in the tribe such as warrior etc. Jung writes a lot about the initiation as an important psychological event, it also has an economic importance too - the young men now have a 'position' a 'role', they have some prestige through what they do. The tribe isn't just some messy accretion of individuals, it has structure, elites, roles etc.

Now think about that anthropological truth, and you can see our society is a bit of a mess. A lot of young men seem to live in a vacuum where there are no authority figures who can offer said initiation into a 'position', or where the authority figures (men) have been emasculated by welfare or lefty ideology etc.

In that vacuum I think the culture of gangs can grow and the 'black gang' culture seems especially vital. It offers initiation and positions, impoverished as they may be but they are better than nothing.

It's a bit like The Lord of the Flies where in the absence of adults (authority) the kids have total freedom but are too immature to organise themselves in a constructive way....they just become feral essentially.

So the left are wrong when they say that simply 'jobs', being 'nice' to the hoodies, more welfare etc is the answer.

'Jobs' is not the same as 'positions'. In our society now the menial jobs are treated with no respect, you are a nobody, but in other societies and times even menial jobs had their position in the world, could have pride taken in them. Christendom did this and same too with oriental cultures.

Being 'nice' to hoodies spoils them, they need tough love. The primitive initiation is not easy, you can fail it.

Welfare offers a dismal 'position' of dependence.

The right are wrong when they stress individual responsibilities, since for children and young adults they are too immature for this. In the primitive tribe the childrens initiation and upbringing is ordered by the adult authority figures.

So in the absence of authority and initiation these young kids and adults have become monsters like the Lord of the Flies kids. I'm sure many of these young rioters are alpha males and in a primitive society would be its warriors etc.

Maybe our modern society and economy has no use for them?