|
53,
So everything else could be construed as irrelevant imo. ronjeremy, lol Tim, I didn't conveniently "ignore" anything. Perhaps I'm in the minority, as inference to me doesn't mean jack...... assumption is the mother of all **** ups. Speak to the organ grinder and not the monkey. Like I have already said, perhaps commercially this could of been handled better. |
Originally Posted by Shaun
(Post 10465291)
53,
So everything else could be construed as irrelevant imo. ronjeremy, lol Tim, I didn't conveniently "ignore" anything. Perhaps I'm in the minority, as inference to me doesn't mean jack...... assumption is the mother of all **** ups. Speak to the organ grinder and not the monkey. Like I have already said, perhaps commercially this could of been handled better. Err no, questions have been answered or at least appeased by Andy, but questions remain. What do you deem irrelevant ? bar your apparent chairmanship of this debate :p:D |
Originally Posted by Andy.F
(Post 10465264)
Having spoken today to Andy Leech of Alcatek controls, the software/firmware developer of the original Simtek, the good news is that he is hoping to be able to continue to support the original product.
It was his full time job building and maintaining these ECU's for Steve to distribute, now he has no distributor. Andy was not party to the decision to change to the new GEMS supplied ECU that Steve is now marketing as Simtek+ and pro. In fact he didn't even know about it until he read it on here. Andy realises that for the original simtek to survive, he must now make the (partly developed) upgrades a top priority, release them free of charge and then establish a new supply chain. For the benefit of all concerned, I for one hope this can happen. I believe there is room in the market place for an entry level ECU such as the orginal Simtek and also for the higher developed new Simtek+ and pro. So what you are trying to say is now that steve has gone to a different supplier (for reasons) , Andy has decided to try and do upgrades to the old simtek , surley if this was possible why did he not develop the old ecu and offer the ugrades before...??? |
Originally Posted by richgreenscooby1
(Post 10465377)
So what you are trying to say is now that steve has gone to a different supplier (for reasons) , Andy has decided to try and do upgrades to the old simtek , surley if this was possible why did he not develop the old ecu and offer the ugrades before...???
|
Originally Posted by Shaun
(Post 10465291)
Like I have already said, perhaps commercially this could of been handled better.
|
There was the Apexi, then came along the Simtek, it filled a hole for those running non maf setups. It does a good job, but lacked some features. Syvecs appeared in which it catered for just about every set up you could think of, but is very expensive. Now Simtek 2 is here which is more expensive then the original and more comparable to the syvecs.
I sold my Simtek because I was tired of waiting for upgrades(paid or free). I was going to install the Syvecs, but then was told of a possible new ECU coming. I have waited for many months without a running car to see if this new Simtek2 has the features and cost for my car. On initial view it fills the requirements. The original Simtek does a great job, but like phones there will be new one with more features. Reading between the lines there has been some business issues and so Simtek 2 has been supplied from a different manufacturer. If you want the latest features- pay for them either with a Simtek 2 or Syvecs |
To echo what some others have said.
Inovation is a good thing. To bring out a product that is comparable to Syvecs good on Steve S. However Not all, but the majority of existing Simtek users. Are basicaly happy with the product. They are the Simtek customer base, with some degree of product loyalty, so it would be good to keep them happy (for all the obvious comercial reasons) Knock correction and closed loop idle have been more than strongly hinted at over the years and quite a few of us have been hanging on for it. Point taken Shaun, it was not ´´promised´´ fair enough. Existing users as a rule dont expect the upgrade to be free. But given the money some of us plough into these cars we cant just go to a new more expensive ECU overnight. It would be the decent thing to do and make long term comercial sense for - 1. The existing users to be looked after and an upgrade released for them 2. For the New ECU obvoiusly to be pushed hard 3. Perhaps for the existing Simtek users to get a decent sized discount on the new ECU (whether that works in practical terms well perhaps, perhaps not) I guess we just see how this unfolds, as old Simtek seems to be divorced from new Simtek |
I agree that there may need to be a charge for the ECU upgrade particularly if it has to go back to be re configured. The Idle really isn't a problem in my opnion, it can be mapped around but the knock control would be good.
|
Originally Posted by Andy.F
(Post 10465686)
I agree that there may need to be a charge for the ECU upgrade particularly if it has to go back to be re configured. The Idle really isn't a problem in my opnion, it can be mapped around but the knock control would be good.
For me. Idle is secondary. Knock control is the thing we were hanging on for. Cheers Steve |
Surely people bought a cheaper product knowing it had no knock control. It wasn't a fault, just a missing feature in a lower priced product, which still sounds like it was good value for money????
The manufacturer have now produced a better product, which does have knock control amongst other things? I can see why people are annoyed they have to fork out for a new ECU, but you can't part ex your old I phone for a new one cause the new one has more functions. |
I for one was not aware or told at any point that this expensive ECU i was buying to replace an inferior standard ECU (why else change it) did not have the ability to reign things in to protect our expensive engines.
Knock control should always have been in there, and i was very dissapointed to find out it was not, it was then subsequently coming along and promised to varying degrees. Existing owners looking for the features that effectively were promised should be looked after in some way. |
^ Epic over simplification Paul :) If you don't have a simtek or if you don't know the history of the implied upgrades for the existing ECU then perhaps don't surmise :) I wouldn't call £1200+ a 'cheaper' product ;) It's nothing more than a fulfilment gap between what was promised or at the very least, what was implied.
All else is new, shiney and great. The issue is purely fulfilment which as Andy has said will be addressed... Andy realises that for the original simtek to survive, he must now make the (partly developed) upgrades a top priority, release them free of charge and then establish a new supply chain That is all :D |
Originally Posted by matt-c
(Post 10465738)
I for one was not aware or told at any point that this expensive ECU i was buying to replace an inferior standard ECU (why else change it) did not have the ability to reign things in to protect our expensive engines.
Knock control should always have been in there, and i was very dissapointed to find out it was not, it was then subsequently coming along and promised to varying degrees. Existing owners looking for the features that effectively were promised should be looked after in some way. Sorry 53, wasn't trying to wind anyone up, I've just read through this thread and that's how it looks. If knock control was so important to the buyers, should they not have bought a different ECU in the first place? |
I was mis-sold but that's another story :)
@ Paul, I think a lot of people were told of the wonders of simtek in the early days and were not told about the lack of knock control. They just expected it to be there, be better than OEM and be worth the money ! As I understand it the roll out of Simtek was faster than anticipated in the retail sense, with the main focus of the ECU being motorsport where purchasers would be a great deal more savvy about what it did or didn't have and what the implications of that would be. Jo public with his 300bhp classic wanting ALS and a FMIC remap would not fall into this catagory 9 times out of 10. I think the general release to 'dealers' was poorly vetted in some cases with many people having issues with idle, knock, warning lights with incorrectly attributed gear ratios, 4th gear misfire etc etc etc...Some dealers IMHO have used simtek as a round peg for a square hole, which would have been better filled with other products (cheaper)available. Still live and learn :) I will say this, JGM is an awesome mapper for Simtek and on the whole I am happy with my Simtek since he kindly fixed the previous dealer's schoolboy errors !. :thumb: |
Thanks for taking the time to explain :thumb:
In which case I'd certainly not be happy!
Originally Posted by 53
(Post 10465777)
I was mis-sold but that's another story :)
@ Paul, I think a lot of people were told of the wonders of simtek in the early days and were not told about the lack of knock control. They just expected it to be there, be better than OEM and be worth the money ! As I understand it the roll out of Simtek was faster than anticipated in the retail sense, with the main focus of the ECU being motorsport where purchasers would be a great deal more savvy about what it did or didn't have and what the implications of that would be. Jo public with his 300bhp classic wanting ALS and a FMIC remap would not fall into this catagory 9 times out of 10. I think the general release to 'dealers' was poorly vetted in some cases with many people having issues with idle, knock, warning lights with incorrectly attributed gear ratios, 4th gear misfire etc etc etc...Some dealers IMHO have used simtek as a round peg for a square hole, which would have been better filled with other products (cheaper)available. Still live and learn :) I will say this, JGM is an awesome mapper for Simtek and on the whole I am happy with my Simtek since he kindly fixed the previous dealers errors. :thumb: |
ok ive had the idle problem and the non starting but....4th gear misfire? is that a problem to do with the simtek?????
and as for most people being happy with there simteks who are these people? id guess they,re like me and put up with it because they cant afford to change. probably 2/3s of the people i speak with about simtek are not happy with them due to running problems |
Originally Posted by matt-c
(Post 10465738)
I for one was not aware or told at any point that this expensive ECU i was buying to replace an inferior standard ECU (why else change it) did not have the ability to reign things in to protect our expensive engines.
Knock control should always have been in there, and i was very dissapointed to find out it was not, it was then subsequently coming along and promised to varying degrees. Existing owners looking for the features that effectively were promised should be looked after in some way. And some of 53's comments also ring true for me, although i never had any problems and was happy with the way the car ran, i would not buy another simtec. Thats nothing to do with the quality of the old or new product, it's because of the stories i have heard and the apparent dis-reguard for customers once they have coughed up. Which this new release illustrates perfectly. And wether or not it was said factually or otherwise, the impression/word on the street was that knock control was on it's way. Now how much of the tittle tattel is true or not, is not really important, it's the overall impression that i a former customer gets, and theres the crux of it poor customer relations = bad impression = lost customers. As regards the old simtec, with what i know now, i don't see how those in the know could of considered and pushed a product that has no knock control, and continue to do so, and sleep at night. Money, money, money. |
The strange thing is that according to Steve the old Simtek was just/not capable of doing things like Knock control, and he went to a different supllier.
However , as Alcatek seem to be willing to get the Knock control/other updates out for the old ECU this does not seem te be the case. |
Well it would seem that the consensus of opinion amongst nearly all Simtek owners agrees with the two points I initially put forward.
When I had my Simtek installed I also had a KS3 Knock Analyzer fitted as I knew that the Simtek didn't have knock correction at that point but it was a future update (having done some research). The KS3 does a good job but if it should ever go crazy (due to bad fuel or an engine fault etc) then its all well and good having the warning even though it may be too late before you can stop if you don't have knock correction. I know time and technology wait for no man, but the updates or patches as they've been called have been in the pipeline / anticipated for so long that the user base is cheesed off with the wait. I don't know if some form of gesture may be made or if an update for the current Simtek will arrive shortly but lets hope that something is sorted. :) |
Originally Posted by Andy.F
(Post 10465264)
Having spoken today to Andy Leech of Alcatek controls, the software/firmware developer of the original Simtek, the good news is that he is hoping to be able to continue to support the original product.
It was his full time job building and maintaining these ECU's for Steve to distribute, now he has no distributor. Andy was not party to the decision to change to the new GEMS supplied ECU that Steve is now marketing as Simtek+ and pro. In fact he didn't even know about it until he read it on here. Andy realises that for the original simtek to survive, he must now make the (partly developed) upgrades a top priority, release them free of charge and then establish a new supply chain. For the benefit of all concerned, I for one hope this can happen. I believe there is room in the market place for an entry level ECU such as the orginal Simtek and also for the higher developed new Simtek+ and pro. I reckon existing Simtek mk1 owners would pay for the upgrades (they otherwise wouldn't get). And he could release the ecu for sale with the upgrades in place for new customers. |
As Alcatek has now acknowledged that-
"he must now make the (partly developed) upgrades a top priority" Simtek MK1 owners should be satisfied of future updates :) Those who are interested in Simtek 2 form an orderly queue :D |
I never said that original Simtek could not do knock control.I said that the progress towards relesing the upgrade was unacceptable and for this reason I decided to develop a new ECU.
I always believed Simtek could support KC; otherwise I would not have laboured for 3 years pushing the development project. I don't understand comments that we were somehow negligent in letting these ECUs out with the potential to damage engines.If you stop to consider how this panacea of knock control works on non adaptive learning ECUs (syvecs and new simtek) then you might understand why we felt that knock warning was a suitable option: With an ECU that does not "learn" where the det is occuring then the knock control strategy has to be like this: 1.knock is detected 2.depending on level of knock ign is retarded 3.knock stops 4.ECU then has to either remain retarded until keyoff and back on or increase ign back to normal level over a number of engine revs 5.if cause of knock (bad fuel etc) has not been resolved then knock will re-occur. Start steps 1-5 again..... That is why we made a point of introducing knock warning so that you had a visual (flashing CEL) alarm that knock was occuring.Maybe not all the dealers took the trouble to explain this to the customer when installing the ECU... The new Simtek will still retain knock warning.It will also keep the CEL lit when high levels of knock have occured. |
so on my original newage version is the duration of individual cel light flashes indicative of the severity of knock?
thanks Trev |
Nothing associated to Steve Simpson as far as I know......
Some customers have changed from standard ECU's (Newages) to other aftermarket ECU's.... some customers have been sold an ECU upgrade they never needed through very bad advice. I feel sorry for them and I know a few! |
I will just wait and see when my OLD ECU can go off for the upgrade then I guess.
I understood that at some point SimTek would have data logging too? So, IF and WHEN the ECU can be sent back for the upgrades. Who will carry this out? Steve |
I'd be very interested in paying for an upgrade if one becones available :) the closed loop idling and knock control is the biggest issues for me :thumb:
|
I think this is good news, only negative thing for me is that my old Simtek will be more or less "worthless". But this situation is kind of similar to developments made in turbos or whatever so I won't complain.
Did feel that the old Simtek software was a bit primitive (I'm no experienced engine mapper but from my amateur point of view it felt that way) so I was going Syvecs anyways, now there's an alternative to that as I see it. My problem with both is the lack of competent mappers that support these ECUs here in Sweden. |
snake1906 :
and as for most people being happy with there simteks who are these people? id guess they,re like me and put up with it because they cant afford to change. probably 2/3s of the people i speak with about simtek are not happy with them due to running problems who are these people? I agree that knock retard would be a good addition to the Simtek for many people, giving them a degree more confidence. Although promised for a long time, perhaps it will now become available in the near future. I rely on my Knock Analyser(s) and flashing CEL. Set up properly these are very worthwhile. The complaints I come across with the SimteK are cold start or poor idle. Both are mapping issues. The mapper only has one shot to get the cold start right so unless he has good cold start maps and off sets/scales, chance are he will not get it right first time. Often the car arrives with the mapper warm or even hot. So cars with cold start issues need delivering the night before, mapped first thing in the morning and checked again late afternoon or early evening (second attempt). If necessary the car stands overnight with a third cold start next morning. If your mapper is competant and has enough maps saved for particular specs or experience he will get it right first time. If your cold start does need tweaked and your mapper is concientious it will be FOC PROVIDING you are prepared to leave your car overnight. Now I have to say that the experience, knowledge and skill of Simtek mappers varies greatly and this explains a lot of "cold start issues" If you have cold start issues or poor idling and it is a mapping issue as opposed to sucking air from a loose or split pipe and your mapper cannot resolve then it is time to seek out a capable and concientious mapper. Like I said I have no idle issues and our mapper appears capable of resolving both of these minor irritants and has the interest and determination to do so. HTH. |
Originally Posted by harvey
(Post 10467052)
snake1906 :
I have two Simteks on two of my own cars and a Motec M800 on an other which I may replace with a Simtek or Syvecs. I have no idle problems on the two Simtek equipped cars and I have no issues with lack of knock ECU control of which I was aware of before I bought the first ECU. The second ECU probably followed 18mths later so I was well aware of what the Simtek could do as I do some of my own personal mapping. We have a third Simtek in a friends P1. I have contact with numerous Simtek owners and the vast majority are very happy with the very cost effective and capable Simtek. I agree that knock retard would be a good addition to the Simtek for many people, giving them a degree more confidence. Although promised for a long time, perhaps it will now become available in the near future. I rely on my Knock Analyser(s) and flashing CEL. Set up properly these are very worthwhile. The complaints I come across with the SimteK are cold start or poor idle. Both are mapping issues. The mapper only has one shot to get the cold start right so unless he has good cold start maps and off sets/scales, chance are he will not get it right first time. Often the car arrives with the mapper warm or even hot. So cars with cold start issues need delivering the night before, mapped first thing in the morning and checked again late afternoon or early evening (second attempt). If necessary the car stands overnight with a third cold start next morning. If your mapper is competant and has enough maps saved for particular specs or experience he will get it right first time. If your cold start does need tweaked and your mapper is concientious it will be FOC PROVIDING you are prepared to leave your car overnight. Now I have to say that the experience, knowledge and skill of Simtek mappers varies greatly and this explains a lot of "cold start issues" If you have cold start issues or poor idling and it is a mapping issue as opposed to sucking air from a loose or split pipe and your mapper cannot resolve then it is time to seek out a capable and concientious mapper. Like I said I have no idle issues and our mapper appears capable of resolving both of these minor irritants and has the interest and determination to do so. HTH. I have no issues with my cold start, I left my car with the tuner for a week so he could cold start perfect. I have since built my own map from the SimTek supplied base map and my cold start & idle is perfect, I have helped another SimTek owner get his idle perfect over e-mails! There is nothing wrong with the Ecu or the software and 99% of all SimTek problems are the fault of tuner! Imagine spending over 2500gbp for a Motec only to realise if you want extra features you have to buy additional sensors and if you want knock control you need to buy an add-on!!!!! The knock warning on the old SimTek is more than adequate when setup correctly! SimTek is a very worthwhile ECU and should not be overlooked especially if on a budget. Nothing has been done under handed either, if Steve Simpsons posts are read correctly people will find that the reason why he opted to change manufacturers . If it wasn't named SimTek............... then there wouldn't be this fuss! |
And I will continue to answer your e-mails Pete - even though you haven't got a "new" simtek.....
The two customers that called yesterday requiring help with Simteks that had inadvertently been damaged also found that we didn't take the attitude that some posts above would suggest.Althouh these ECUs are well out of warranty, I organised for their repair and if at all possible this will be FOC... |
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