Never questioned that the M3 will take most scoobs, or be better in many circumstances - you're looking at well over £40k of car versus nearer £20k for a WRX. A standard UK scoob is impressive in many ways, but is not and never will be a supercar. The M3 can (depending on opinion) claim to be one.

The original question was about a 325i, so an M3 is off topic, a radical or whatever is only a bit more so.

Regards the in-gear - Yes and no. From low engine speeds and for throttle response, the scoob will obviously lose to a lot of things. When fully boosting (say 3000rpm+ dependent on turbo), the torque is stronger in turbo cars than equivalently fast NA cars. In another extreme example, Audi RS6 or AMG Mercs are almost untouchable in gear once on boost.

Yes, I freely admit I knew what you meant ;) However, IMHO, I'm very strongly in favour of the Colin Chapman philosophy of pace through light weight, rather than pace through bigger engines. For example, my brother's 550kg 170+bhp (NA 2 litre) Fisher Fury would noticeably beat an M3 at <100mph or round a track (and any standard scoobs too). Round a track, I imagine it'd beat an M5 too. I know it's still not like with like, but M3 vs WRX isn't really, either. And personally, for pace, I'd take an NA engine of slightly lesser power in a lighter car any day..

Take a look on here - http://www.jsread.com/tvr/quartermile.htm.

Not sure how accurate it is but it is very interesting and extremely addictive :)

SIAL!!!!!
dave:D

My almost standard my99 eats 325's and I wouldnt even refer to those meetings as tussles to be honest. Its beaten with relative ease the odd 330 and has seriously gone at two M3's - 1 current shape and 1 previous shape and matched but unfortunately not beaten either...:( - not suprising really :)
If a 325 matches any scooby then IMO the scooby is very poorly sick and needs a defribulator (sp) :(. The figures posted further up the thread confirm as much.

I'll say it just one more time to be sure you all heard *cough* abdabz ;)

An e46 M3 that is trying will obliterate even a lightly modded MY99 over about 70mph!

Fast_Eddie was right on the ball about the M3 engine characteristics. You do have to wind it up past 5K to get the full performance, in fact as it passes 5K you can feel the extra poke a bit almost like a Scoob at about 3.5K when the boost starts to do its bit. The M3 scores because it will hold that sort of power up to the red line where the Scoob has run out of a fair bit of "puff". The M3 Evo has the advantage also of the Vanos which changes the cam timing of both exhaust and inlet cams to maximum effect and six gears to do it with. It was an expensive car when new of course but buying a good used one gives you a class car for very reasonable money.

I loved my classic STi but it is fair to say that I feel just the same about the M3 and get less hassle from Mrs Leslie too. :)

Les

And there's very little difference in both the late e36 and e43 m3s. Their performances are very comparable.

e43 ????????????

Bought this bttt as I had a play with a new M3 AGAIN yesterday. As previously posted on this thread:

BMW M3 £39,730 338/7900 269/5000 219bhp/ton 0-60 5.1 155

MY97 STI £5,500 288/6890 264/4570 (1250kg) 230bhp/ton 0-60 4.5 150

He tried 3 times from 60mph ish to 110, before getting caught up in traffic again. The 3rd time, I held back, about 100 yards or so and as the car in front of him pulled over, I dropped to 3rd at 70mph. I heard his exhausts scream and he went for it. As I approached 110mph I had closed the entire distance on him and backed off. Look at the figures above, why do some of you think a Scooby cannot beat an M3? Have you never been up against an import STI version 3 or above?

Saw the RS4 mentioned too. Now that race I know he was trying, very hard. It was my cousin, with his chipped (reckoned 420 bhp, but not RR'd) RS4 he bought for £35,000. We tried at 20 mph up, 70 mph up and 70mph up in 5th. The outcome was that from 20mph up, I had the edge, from 70 mph up, absolutely level, but from 70 mph up in 5th, he had the edge. Also tried 4th from 100 mph up, he was definately quicker as mine takes ages to get from 120 mph, 5th to max 150. Was he gutted? Not completely as his is a luxury motor, but his comments included, "So, I can have one of these (RS4) or one of yours for every day of the week, in a different colour!" He too, beats M3's comfortably!

Keef69,

You forgot to say that you undertook all of these tests on a private road/track (where you got caught in traffic from time to time) where the sorts of speeds you are talking about are perfectly legal and safe. :)

Thought that was obvious. The various aircraft were the traffic referred to.

Q: When can a 220 whp car outperform a 292 whp at 100+ mph??

A: When the other guy doesnt use the extra power.

It's already been explained in this thread, you need to use all the upper revs in an M3 otherwise it will be underperforming.

Same thing with MY00, when it was standard at 215bhp, i struggled to keep up with a Merc CLK320, which got me worried that my car was slow etc, and to be honest in standard form its performance was not that great also struggled with a Renault 5 turbo, which showed me up, But the scooby was a great platform to start modifying to make it faster, now ive got 330bhp, its a total different story, now i can take on the M3, unless its a CSL.

This is what it comes down to! I raced an e46 M3 the other day coming off a roundabout and he only pulled a couple of car length but it REALLY looked like he was trying. The hard fact is he wasn't!!

I think people SERIOUSLY underestimate the advantage rwd and bigger cc can have over scoobys above certain speeds. Take this example:

Classic scooby 215bhp, 1250kg, 4wd
406 V6 194bhp, 1450kg, fwd

Sitting in 3rd at 60mph and flooring to whatever speed you like there is a difference that can only be measured in inches!!! But how is this possible when I have less power and more weight........it's for the reasons given above! ***Anyone that doesn't believe me sling by and we'll go for a run - just wait for me on the corners eh ;):D***

Now you have to remember that the M3 has 343 or raw power to work with (say it outloud to yourself!) and when that is applied through the rear wheels at 60mph it takes MASSIVE power in a scooby to stop it!!

More evidence! My MY99 1/4m in 13.0401 @ 103mph with decat and tek 3 which was regarded as a good time from those mods (about 275bhp). M3s are about 13.4 as well but at about 110mph! Now if you consider that I'm launching off the line this tells us that an M3 would be screaming past me if we had a little more track to play with.

Those M3 Evo's are fackin quick even from the lights :eek2:


i got b1tch slapped by one in my 260bhp wagon i had the jump on him at the lights but once he got the traction he made me look like i was going backwards :cry:


it was a different story when i met that same Bmw on my R1
revenge is so sweet :norty:

Does anyone know how much the M3 coupe and the M3 cabriolet weigh, cause when i say ive raced a few M3's they've all been M3 cabriolets which are supposed to be heavier, dont see many M3 coupes near me.

Drop tops are usually heavier and usually driven be slack wrist gays that can bearly change gear ;):D

I'm a newbie on this site as i'm looking for a WRX sportwagon, but at present
a BMW driver (I can here the boo's already).

I'm very surprised that you were out paced by a 325ci (190 bhp)
Yes once that big lazy inline six is above 60 they do pull well, but
against a lighter Turbo'd car no way.

I would get your car on the RR mate, as you should of wasted him.

As for a e39 325ci no it would have been a e46 325ci

If it was the 339 M5 then yes you have nothing to worry about
as they are awsome !

Keep your BMW scoobfan unless you ridiculously increase the power on the Scooby = £££££. Scoobies in standard form just don't cut it these days IMHO. Mine would have gone ages ago if not modded.... for a 330i, M3 or M5 depending on budget.

mmm, M5...