Jacko, i agree wholeheartedly with your posts on this thread!

Very well put :thumb:

Cheers, its a complex very issue, trouble is it goes to two camps, basically kill them (Most of the country) or give them a big hug (Guardian Reading Social Worker types).

I think that perhaps as a country we have failed, not just them but everyone segregates themselves into little sub-cultures, most of the problems are down to a lack of understanding and integration, I know people who pontificate (me as well :D) about other groups but they dont have any understanding, there is a certain amount of fear and confusion about how other people operate, we only see the end results of a thought process, i.e. actions.

We tend to only socialise in specific groups, for me its Subaru Owners :D, i.e., I dont speak to 20 year old black lads or 13 year old kids from Salford, I sort of think we need to do a national "team building" exercise, exchanging thoughts and ideas on here is great but say it got extended to a national level via the internet ? I was shouting at the TV the other night but I think it would have been better to speak to one of those kids before, they dont have role models and I am nothing special but I would be able to offer advice perhaps better than their own parents or in leiu of and I think there are a lot of people that could provide advice and potentially stand as a role model, someone to impress, not saying that I want to adopt a hoodie but internet access is getting pretty pervasive (they all have phones with BBM we saw that much), I could deal with that, I spend time on here spouting it.

Anyone think that could work, I think it could, the perhaps they woudlnt feel so "disenfranchised" and have some morals, there are a lot of people in this country versus the number of "hoodrats" and not everyone is so self absorbed that they couldnt provide some useful advice and the benefit of their experience, kind of a Big Brother but in a good way ?

Ok, would need some thought, Anyone think it could possibly work ?

likewise. buckle end of the belt sometimes. i was a cheeky wee fcuker when i was younger though.

Erm, I don't think leathering these kids to within an inch of their pants is the answer either. But the threat of some sort of punishment would help!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pAC0...layer_embedded

pretty good assesment

we have created a low wage low skill economy, and a zero aspiration society, based on the knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing

wealth will continue to rise up the social scale, social mobility will fall even further creating a squeezed middle that will become one wage cheque from "poverty", requiring two wage earners, breaking family life, etc etc

the underclass culture will become even more entrenched, the wealthy will be able to anesthetise themselves from the rest of society thru gated communities, enclaves etc, further divorcing themselves from reality of the impending doom

as I said a few years ago in a post the starting wage for a decent lifestyle will be around a 100k a year

the only root out for the underclass -- The X Factor

Did you see the group of young girls on the news? While looting they shouted into the camera, "we is gettin our tax back innit"
Do they pay tax on their benefits like i do on my wages through paye??????????

Ordinarily would be a bit right wing for me but I do entirely agree on this occasion

Dont believe there is one

Well, that cheered me up.

the true genius of it is that the fvcked middle blame the fvcked underclass

Spot on!

I was thinking about who is to blame for the underclass and I came to the conclusion it was the ruling classes who invented the social state. In the past, if you didn't have enough money to feed yourself, you died, or went into the poor house. You didn't demand NHS treatment after drunken street brawls, Sky TV and Lonsdale tracksuits....

So they decide to hang around in a riot zone to have a nosey at what was going on?

Yeah. Yeah. Anyone with a bit of common sense would get out of there ASAP.

Yes, quite right! anyone with any sense whatsoever would get out of a dangerous situation like that pronto!

This couldnt be more wrong. The UK is a modern high tech country, India and the Far East are "low wage low skill econom(ies)"

For wealth to rise up the scale that implies there is wealth at the lower end. This is clearly incorrect. What wealth generation activites do the underclass perform hmm? When wealth is created, the people doing so automatically move up the scale. Social mobility is a factor of equal OPPORTUNITIES and the UK is actually quite good for this. Whether the underclass CHOOSE to move up the scale through the input of hard work is affected by the welfare state for instance.

Only if the underclass are allowed to get away with anti-social behaviour - the other option is to crack down on the offenders.

Well given your economic understanding I wouldn't take you seriously on that.

Whilst out yesterday I noticed that the local Pioneer factory was being demolished. We can't even assemble Japanese designed products cost effectively.

We are a nation of gougers and spivs, apart from a few who work at Rolls Royce aerospace maybe... :lol1:

Thankfully I'm old enough not to care about riots on estates down South, if these scum choose to bite the hand that feeds them, then punish them.

I'll pay a bit extra on my taxes for a new prison, or ten...

dunx


P.S. Did any of these looters "do" a Maccy'D's or were they smart enough to leave their only source of nourishment unscathed ?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/pe...as-the-bottom/

Makes an interesting read:)

Looking at the pathetic sentences being handed out Youth referral orders, electronic tags etc. I can see these scumbags kicking off the next time one of their "soldiers" gets killed.

If you are convicted of looting you should be sterilised, that should help clear up the filth.

There was a time when even the poorest parents had the responsibility to bring up their children to understand the need for discipline in a decent society and also to respect them and to do what they were told. If people are not prepared to accept all that then there is very little chance of a successful society continuing to exist.

In recent times, our "gallant" leaders have encouraged the downfall of the old moral ways of life, as much as anything by their own highly sub standard example, and we now have a generation which will produce children in order to get more benefits but who will allow those children to roam free at night in gangs so that they become feral by nature, have no kind of ambition to improve themselves by working at school and whose main ambition is to destroy any form of authority or any sign of someone else's success.

We are very unlucky with our modern day politicians of all colours whose major ambition seems to be self seeking with little if any sense of real responsibility towards the people of this country. It has been very disappointing to see the politicians very low sense of morality these days. There was a time when a politician was a respected and trusted person.

Unless this country manages to find an honest and strong fearless leader in the near future, I hold out very few hopes in years to come.

Les

A good perspective Les:)

The youth referral orders are for people under the age of 15, I think; the kiddy in this link was 13. Anyway, six months for stealing a bottle of water - harsh enough for you? :lol1:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14504005

Regards the eugenics idea, old Adolf killed any chance of that one for the forseeable future. Shame.

Yes, very true -- but I am in good company because most economists make it up as they go along too

They are the minority ... carry on ignoring it imho as 99% of the population is fine. Evolution will weed them out eventually.

TX.

No need for it fella. Kids easily understand the concept of reward vs punishment & punishment need not be a slap imho. Removal of treats (XBox, days out, seeing their friends etc) has always worked in our house or indeed just the threat of it, resulting in a well balanced child. You only have to see some of the episodes of super nanny to see that some parents are indeed clueless :cuckoo:

TX.

True enough, although it's not unheard of in western democracies - the Yanks gave it a shot in the 1920s. Maybe it's time has come again...;)

Food vouchers will not work. I know of shops that will take Milk Tokens (yes, baby milk vouchers given to low income families) as payment for fags and booze