Which of those statements are untrue?

So why are you so interested in defending Tony? Are you related to him? Get over yourself Mark. Either present a proper argument or stop stirring and stay off these threads.

I have asked Tony the question based on exactly what he asks others. If you actually kept up with these threads you will know this.

Tony knows what I am talking about, let him answer for himself.

With all due respect Asif, there's nothing in this thread that suggests Tony espouses the view that only people actually resident or born in a particular country have a right to comment on its politics or whatever else goes on there.

As for my 'not keeping up with these threads' as you put it, so what if I don't live or die by what gets posted here? I get the impression you might benefit from following that example yourself occasionally.

So do we now have to treat people on a thread by thread pesonality basis? :Whatever_ No of course we don't so that's an utterly illogical comment. It's a defence he has used many times before as to why we shouldn't care about the plight of another people or nation.

Mark,

Please check the last line of Tony's first post, it is a line of argument that he attacks others with on a regular basis, while never really answering the same question whenever asked of him. Does this sound familiar about him?

You are free to look further into this, otherwise you can take my word for it.

No one lives or dies by what is posted here, least of all someone like Tony. You are free to post whatever you like of course, but whatever one posts on here is subject to scrutiny. I don't see how our exchange is any different to what happens on SN thousands of times every day.

I am not sure therefore why you would seek to somehow paint myself in a different light?

With all due respect Mark, perhaps you lack an argument or POV that will add to this thread? I am happy, as ever, to be corrected. :)

Asif

Fair enough, Tony did make a comment about 'hearing from some Palestinians', I stand corrected.

My POV on this thread? It's a bit of a fail really, this country does no more and no less standing up to Israel than it does to any other country of comparable size and geopolitical importance. The OP obviously has a bee in his bonnet on the subject, and I doubt there's very much I or anyone else could do or say to change that.

Fair enough Mark. :)

Your POV is relevant, I think you have made two points in your second paragraph.

However, the thread does allow anyone outside of the argument to view entrenched opinions for themselves (including my own:D) and to discuss what seems to be too PC to do, which is to criticise Israel. Anyone who wishes to defend it is free to do so too of course.

Tony has some points, believe it or not, but his overall level of bias, ignoring others' points, not answering questions put to him, making irrelevant statements to try to undermine an argument, and a complete lack of logic, just undermine any sympathy a reasonable person would feel for Israel.

If I were Tony, I would stop defending them, as he does such a poor job of it!

Asif

Lucky for them they have the IDF then ;)

Point still stands regardless of gender. Even worse you use the voice of one right winger to define the attitude of a whole nation.

I've stated before why I support Israel.

For the benefit of us that missed it, can you repeat what you said....

Well it worked in Germany a few years back ;)

Very simply the same Islamists who target the UK and it's citizens also target Israel.

Oh the irony.

Indeed.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni

Go on then, proove it

Hitler holding conference with a 'raghead'?
There's a lot of 'stuff' on the internet that may or may not be true.
http://www.puretalkforum.com/f70/hit...hero-8306.html

I've read about this elsewhere.

Why don't you google them yourself its not that hard is it. Why don't you try to prove one of those facts to be true ? I will prove those are lies when you prove to me that my invisible giant teapot god does not exist.

dunno what happened to my previous comment.. maybe didnt get posted.. comp has been playing up.. tony.. you coming scooby shooutout?

LOL no plans.

That's the sort of answer I expected from you

It was Canaanite land, then Israel, then Israel and Judah (two separate Jewish territories), then Roman Palestine, then part of the Ottoman territory, then British Palestine which then became Israel and Palestine but because the Arabs attacked Israel, the borders became larger after the war.

The original Israel covered much more than the present day Israel. It covered a lot of Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and part of Egypt.

Jews and Arabs (and Palestinians) are mostly SEMITES and ethnically similar. Remember that a lot of intermarriage occurred between national groups in the area over the past 5000 plus years and some would even include Persians (who are not arabs). Judaism is 3,500 plus years old while Islam is only 1,400 years (approx) years old.


There is a Muslim temple sitting right on top of where there used to be a Jewish one in Israel.
There was an Israel a couple thousand years ago.

Your reaction was as predictable as your open racist hatred for Israel.
I keep hearing all this stuff about how evil and hateful the Israelis are and yet having met a few Israelis I can say my over abiding meory of them was, how laid back open and friendly they were, and how unlike the picture painted by people like you would have them to be.
Likewise, having met a few of the "Liberate Palestine" mob I can say my over abiding view of them is, narrow minded hate filled nutters who only hear and believe what they want to, and damn anyone who undermines any of their so called 'facts'

Why is this important? The UK in 1312 B.C.E was not made up of Angles, Saxons, Romans, Danes or Normans, so are you advocating that because Israel was around 3000 years ago that the UL should eject anyone who is not related to the original Britons and become whatever it was called then?


Again, why is this relevant? The original Kingdom of Israel was conquered well over two thousand years ago. Non-Jews have been living there continuously for thousands of years too.

What exactly are you trying to say here? Israel was conquered (or at least the land where Israel was, it had ceased to exist long before) by several different parties over subsequent centuries after the first Arab invasion. This statement is meaningless.

Judaism is a religion. It's like saying Rome has been the capital of Roman Catholics for 2000 years, so it automatically belongs to them. All the Jews or Muslims can sod off out of Rome. Don't let the fact that Rome existed before Catholics stand in the way......

That's hardly surprising as Judaism was rife round those parts when the bible was written. They are hardly going to keep mentioning places that were not relevant at the time. If we take that route, why not give then Iraq? That's where a lot of the early bible takes place.

Likewise, it isn't mentioned in the Koran because it wasn't relevant.

He founded the city, but it had been inhabited for at least two thousand years before. What about their claim..........

This does not equate to a right to live somewhere or victimise people.

Wow, that's just fine then, only 32% had to suffer the brutality meted out by their new landlords :rolleyes:

Nice to see that after complaining about such injustices, they felt it was not an injustice to commit the exact same injustices.

So? They had room for shed loads of Jews, not surprising as so many Arabs had left (for whatever reason) :cuckoo:

Israel was always going to take Jews in, they think it's the promised land. There is not the same idea in Islam. They're just refugees. Also, this statement is simply not true. Whilst not all were absorbed, some were.

This is just a collection of facts, doesn't really indicate anything other than the Israelis are quite hard and don't mess with them?

How nice of the Israelis to give these people the land they had been living on for so many centuries anyway. Better to supply them weapons than risk the lives of Jews in there, eh?

This is true, and is a disgrace to the Jordanians, and kudos to the Israelis for preserving other religious sites. Are you saying though that if you do something good, it excuses the bad?

Is this point just to highlight the fact that Israel ignore load of resolutions against them?

Once again......

All appalling, but again, two wrongs don't make a right.


Israel has no right to exist, or at least no right to exist as a Jewish state.

Geezer

http://m.eb.com/topic/277483/Amin-al-Husayni

Britannica any good or are they in on it, too? ;) :D

I am well aware of the history Bonehead, and I am also aware that king david is an Islamic prophet as well as a Jewish one and that Muhammed did go to jerusalem according to the made up religious books that people believe in. I am also aware that your list is bull**** as I am sure you know yourself. You also know that it was not written by any kind of academic. If it was then please post more details ?

I have met plenty of Israelis as well thanks and found them to be extremely arrogant, rude and aggressive people. I am at least honest enough to admit that most of the Israelis I met had recently completed compulsory military service and that particular brainwashing exercise may explain their bad attitude. I have met one Israeli I liked and he admitted that Israelis act like complete arseholes once they have had their anti Islamic indoctrination in the army.

o thats a shame, am sure the brothers would have loved a lil battle.. on the drag strip off course ;)

@ Geezer - Judaism is a religion. The Jewish are a race.

Just as an exercise, I'm going to replace the word Israeli with Pakistani. Let's see how it reads. Imagine if I or other posters wrote the following:

It's all a conspiracy didn't you know!:D

I have seen much worse than that on scoobynet whats your point ?