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-   -   Israel thread (https://www.scoobynet.com/non-scooby-related-4/888171-israel-thread.html)

JTaylor 11 May 2011 11:50 PM


Originally Posted by Luan Pra bang (Post 10034753)
Great list bonehead shame most of it is untrue. I would love to know which professor came up with it becasue I don't think any real professor could have failed to estabilsh that that list is bollocks.

Which of those statements are untrue?

AsifScoob 11 May 2011 11:54 PM


Originally Posted by markjmd (Post 10034857)
Sorry, but why should Tony be any less interested in defending Israel than you, Luan Pra Bang, F1 or anyone else be interested in putting Israel down? Were any of you born there, or in the Gaza Strip, or the West Bank?

So why are you so interested in defending Tony? Are you related to him? Get over yourself Mark. Either present a proper argument or stop stirring and stay off these threads.

I have asked Tony the question based on exactly what he asks others. If you actually kept up with these threads you will know this.

Tony knows what I am talking about, let him answer for himself.

markjmd 12 May 2011 12:13 AM


Originally Posted by AsifScoob (Post 10034877)
So why are you so interested in defending Tony? Are you related to him? Get over yourself Mark. Either present a proper argument or stop stirring and stay off these threads.

I have asked Tony the question based on exactly what he asks others. If you actually kept up with these threads you will know this.

Tony knows what I am talking about, let him answer for himself.

With all due respect Asif, there's nothing in this thread that suggests Tony espouses the view that only people actually resident or born in a particular country have a right to comment on its politics or whatever else goes on there.

As for my 'not keeping up with these threads' as you put it, so what if I don't live or die by what gets posted here? I get the impression you might benefit from following that example yourself occasionally.

f1_fan 12 May 2011 12:24 AM


Originally Posted by markjmd (Post 10034916)
With all due respect Asif, there's nothing in this thread that suggests Tony espouses the view that only people actually resident or born in a particular country have a right to comment on its politics or whatever else goes on there.

So do we now have to treat people on a thread by thread pesonality basis? :Whatever_ No of course we don't so that's an utterly illogical comment. It's a defence he has used many times before as to why we shouldn't care about the plight of another people or nation.

AsifScoob 12 May 2011 12:27 AM


Originally Posted by markjmd (Post 10034916)
With all due respect Asif, there's nothing in this thread that suggests Tony espouses the view that only people actually resident or born in a particular country have a right to comment on its politics or whatever else goes on there.

As for my 'not keeping up with these threads' as you put it, so what if I don't live or die by what gets posted here? I get the impression you might benefit from following that example yourself occasionally.

Mark,

Please check the last line of Tony's first post, it is a line of argument that he attacks others with on a regular basis, while never really answering the same question whenever asked of him. Does this sound familiar about him?

You are free to look further into this, otherwise you can take my word for it.

No one lives or dies by what is posted here, least of all someone like Tony. You are free to post whatever you like of course, but whatever one posts on here is subject to scrutiny. I don't see how our exchange is any different to what happens on SN thousands of times every day.

I am not sure therefore why you would seek to somehow paint myself in a different light?

With all due respect Mark, perhaps you lack an argument or POV that will add to this thread? I am happy, as ever, to be corrected. :)

Asif

markjmd 12 May 2011 12:47 AM

Fair enough, Tony did make a comment about 'hearing from some Palestinians', I stand corrected.

My POV on this thread? It's a bit of a fail really, this country does no more and no less standing up to Israel than it does to any other country of comparable size and geopolitical importance. The OP obviously has a bee in his bonnet on the subject, and I doubt there's very much I or anyone else could do or say to change that.

AsifScoob 12 May 2011 01:06 AM


Originally Posted by markjmd (Post 10034938)
Fair enough, Tony did make a comment about 'hearing from some Palestinians', I stand corrected.

My POV on this thread? It's a bit of a fail really, this country does no more and no less standing up to Israel than it does to any other country of comparable size and geopolitical importance. The OP obviously has a bee in his bonnet on the subject, and I doubt there's very much I or anyone else could do or say to change that.

Fair enough Mark. :)

Your POV is relevant, I think you have made two points in your second paragraph.

However, the thread does allow anyone outside of the argument to view entrenched opinions for themselves (including my own:D) and to discuss what seems to be too PC to do, which is to criticise Israel. Anyone who wishes to defend it is free to do so too of course.

Tony has some points, believe it or not, but his overall level of bias, ignoring others' points, not answering questions put to him, making irrelevant statements to try to undermine an argument, and a complete lack of logic, just undermine any sympathy a reasonable person would feel for Israel.

If I were Tony, I would stop defending them, as he does such a poor job of it!

Asif

cster 12 May 2011 07:33 AM


Originally Posted by AsifScoob (Post 10034943)

If I were Tony, I would stop defending them, as he does such a poor job of it!

Asif

Lucky for them they have the IDF then ;)

tony de wonderful 12 May 2011 08:36 AM


Originally Posted by AsifScoob (Post 10034842)
Are you referring to Tzipi Livni Tony? I think you will find that he is in fact a she. Seems like you don't really know who, or what, you're talking about?:rolleyes:

She is quite a prominent politician in Israel, and VERY hardline. One of your cuddly, 'peace loving' Israelis. :rolleyes:

Point still stands regardless of gender. Even worse you use the voice of one right winger to define the attitude of a whole nation.

tony de wonderful 12 May 2011 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by AsifScoob (Post 10034928)
Mark,

Please check the last line of Tony's first post, it is a line of argument that he attacks others with on a regular basis, while never really answering the same question whenever asked of him. Does this sound familiar about him?

I've stated before why I support Israel.

banny sti 12 May 2011 08:42 AM


Originally Posted by tony de wonderful (Post 10035053)
I've stated before why I support Israel.

For the benefit of us that missed it, can you repeat what you said....

f1_fan 12 May 2011 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by tony de wonderful (Post 10035047)
Even worse you use the voice of one right winger to define the attitude of a whole nation.

Well it worked in Germany a few years back ;)

tony de wonderful 12 May 2011 08:51 AM


Originally Posted by banny sti (Post 10035055)
For the benefit of us that missed it, can you repeat what you said....

Very simply the same Islamists who target the UK and it's citizens also target Israel.

Maz 12 May 2011 11:30 AM


Originally Posted by f1_fan (Post 10035058)
Well it worked in Germany a few years back ;)

Oh the irony.

JTaylor 12 May 2011 11:58 AM


Originally Posted by Einstein RA (Post 10035230)
Oh the irony.

Indeed.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni

Bonehead 12 May 2011 01:08 PM


Originally Posted by Luan Pra bang (Post 10034753)
Great list bonehead shame most of it is untrue. I would love to know which professor came up with it becasue I don't think any real professor could have failed to estabilsh that that list is bollocks.

Go on then, proove it

Maz 12 May 2011 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by JTaylor (Post 10035265)

Hitler holding conference with a 'raghead'?
There's a lot of 'stuff' on the internet that may or may not be true.
http://www.puretalkforum.com/f70/hit...hero-8306.html

tony de wonderful 12 May 2011 01:27 PM


Originally Posted by Einstein RA (Post 10035403)
Hitler holding conference with a 'raghead'?
There's a lot of 'stuff' on the internet that may or may not be true.
http://www.puretalkforum.com/f70/hit...hero-8306.html

I've read about this elsewhere.

Luan Pra bang 12 May 2011 01:54 PM


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10035377)
Go on then, proove it

Why don't you google them yourself its not that hard is it. Why don't you try to prove one of those facts to be true ? I will prove those are lies when you prove to me that my invisible giant teapot god does not exist.

eggy790 12 May 2011 02:53 PM

dunno what happened to my previous comment.. maybe didnt get posted.. comp has been playing up.. tony.. you coming scooby shooutout?

tony de wonderful 12 May 2011 03:21 PM


Originally Posted by eggy790 (Post 10035537)
dunno what happened to my previous comment.. maybe didnt get posted.. comp has been playing up.. tony.. you coming scooby shooutout?

LOL no plans.

Bonehead 12 May 2011 03:36 PM


Originally Posted by Luan Pra bang (Post 10035456)
Why don't you google them yourself its not that hard is it. Why don't you try to prove one of those facts to be true ? I will prove those are lies when you prove to me that my invisible giant teapot god does not exist.

That's the sort of answer I expected from you

It was Canaanite land, then Israel, then Israel and Judah (two separate Jewish territories), then Roman Palestine, then part of the Ottoman territory, then British Palestine which then became Israel and Palestine but because the Arabs attacked Israel, the borders became larger after the war.

The original Israel covered much more than the present day Israel. It covered a lot of Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and part of Egypt.

Jews and Arabs (and Palestinians) are mostly SEMITES and ethnically similar. Remember that a lot of intermarriage occurred between national groups in the area over the past 5000 plus years and some would even include Persians (who are not arabs). Judaism is 3,500 plus years old while Islam is only 1,400 years (approx) years old.


There is a Muslim temple sitting right on top of where there used to be a Jewish one in Israel.
There was an Israel a couple thousand years ago.

Your reaction was as predictable as your open racist hatred for Israel.
I keep hearing all this stuff about how evil and hateful the Israelis are and yet having met a few Israelis I can say my over abiding meory of them was, how laid back open and friendly they were, and how unlike the picture painted by people like you would have them to be.
Likewise, having met a few of the "Liberate Palestine" mob I can say my over abiding view of them is, narrow minded hate filled nutters who only hear and believe what they want to, and damn anyone who undermines any of their so called 'facts'

Geezer 12 May 2011 04:06 PM


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
Here are 20 conveniently overlooked facts that give some perspective to the current Middle East situation. These were compiled by a Christian university professor..... Takes just 1.5 minutes to read!!!

1. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

Why is this important? The UK in 1312 B.C.E was not made up of Angles, Saxons, Romans, Danes or Normans, so are you advocating that because Israel was around 3000 years ago that the UL should eject anyone who is not related to the original Britons and become whatever it was called then?



Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E, the Jews had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

Again, why is this relevant? The original Kingdom of Israel was conquered well over two thousand years ago. Non-Jews have been living there continuously for thousands of years too.


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
4.The only Arab domination since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.

What exactly are you trying to say here? Israel was conquered (or at least the land where Israel was, it had ceased to exist long before) by several different parties over subsequent centuries after the first Arab invasion. This statement is meaningless.


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

Judaism is a religion. It's like saying Rome has been the capital of Roman Catholics for 2000 years, so it automatically belongs to them. All the Jews or Muslims can sod off out of Rome. Don't let the fact that Rome existed before Catholics stand in the way......


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 hundred times in Bible. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.

That's hardly surprising as Judaism was rife round those parts when the bible was written. They are hardly going to keep mentioning places that were not relevant at the time. If we take that route, why not give then Iraq? That's where a lot of the early bible takes place.

Likewise, it isn't mentioned in the Koran because it wasn't relevant.


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

He founded the city, but it had been inhabited for at least two thousand years before. What about their claim..........


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

This does not equate to a right to live somewhere or victimise people.


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
9. Arab and Jewish refugees: Arabs were not driven out of their homes. Following the UN decision on Partition in 1948, the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders, promising to purge the land of Jews. They argued that an "Arab presence" would only get in the way of the planned devastation. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

Wow, that's just fine then, only 32% had to suffer the brutality meted out by their new landlords :rolleyes:


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

Nice to see that after complaining about such injustices, they felt it was not an injustice to commit the exact same injustices.


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees absorbed by Israel from Arab countries is estimated to be the same.

So? They had room for shed loads of Jews, not surprising as so many Arabs had left (for whatever reason) :cuckoo:


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples'lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.

Israel was always going to take Jews in, they think it's the promised land. There is not the same idea in Islam. They're just refugees. Also, this statement is simply not true. Whilst not all were absorbed, some were.


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
13. The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

This is just a collection of facts, doesn't really indicate anything other than the Israelis are quite hard and don't mess with them?


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
14. The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank and autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied their police and security forces with weapons.

How nice of the Israelis to give these people the land they had been living on for so many centuries anyway. Better to supply them weapons than risk the lives of Jews in there, eh?


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Jewish grave markers were used to build public urinals in occupied Jerusalem. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

This is true, and is a disgrace to the Jordanians, and kudos to the Israelis for preserving other religious sites. Are you saying though that if you do something good, it excuses the bad?


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
16. The U.N. record on Israel and the Arabs of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel -- notwithstanding the fact that the Arabs refused to participate in the 15 nation United Nations Commission of Palestine which recommended partition in 1948 and sought immediately to undo its work by force of arms.

Is this point just to highlight the fact that Israel ignore load of resolutions against them?


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

Once again......


Originally Posted by Bonehead (Post 10034697)
18. The U.N. was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians between 1948 and 1967.

19. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives between 1948 and 1967.

20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall between 1948 and 1967.

All appalling, but again, two wrongs don't make a right.


Israel has no right to exist, or at least no right to exist as a Jewish state.

Geezer

JTaylor 12 May 2011 04:10 PM


Originally Posted by JTaylor (Post 10035265)


Originally Posted by Einstein RA (Post 10035403)
Hitler holding conference with a 'raghead'?
There's a lot of 'stuff' on the internet that may or may not be true.
http://www.puretalkforum.com/f70/hit...hero-8306.html

http://m.eb.com/topic/277483/Amin-al-Husayni

Britannica any good or are they in on it, too? ;) :D

Luan Pra bang 12 May 2011 04:10 PM

I am well aware of the history Bonehead, and I am also aware that king david is an Islamic prophet as well as a Jewish one and that Muhammed did go to jerusalem according to the made up religious books that people believe in. I am also aware that your list is bull**** as I am sure you know yourself. You also know that it was not written by any kind of academic. If it was then please post more details ?

I have met plenty of Israelis as well thanks and found them to be extremely arrogant, rude and aggressive people. I am at least honest enough to admit that most of the Israelis I met had recently completed compulsory military service and that particular brainwashing exercise may explain their bad attitude. I have met one Israeli I liked and he admitted that Israelis act like complete arseholes once they have had their anti Islamic indoctrination in the army.

eggy790 12 May 2011 04:17 PM


Originally Posted by tony de wonderful (Post 10035564)
LOL no plans.

o thats a shame, am sure the brothers would have loved a lil battle.. on the drag strip off course ;)

JTaylor 12 May 2011 04:28 PM

@ Geezer - Judaism is a religion. The Jewish are a race.

JTaylor 12 May 2011 04:36 PM


Originally Posted by Luan Pra bang (Post 10035645)
I am well aware of the history Bonehead, and I am also aware that king david is an Islamic prophet as well as a Jewish one and that Muhammed did go to jerusalem according to the made up religious books that people believe in. I am also aware that your list is bull**** as I am sure you know yourself. You also know that it was not written by any kind of academic. If it was then please post more details ?

I have met plenty of Israelis as well thanks and found them to be extremely arrogant, rude and aggressive people. I am at least honest enough to admit that most of the Israelis I met had recently completed compulsory military service and that particular brainwashing exercise may explain their bad attitude. I have met one Israeli I liked and he admitted that Israelis act like complete arseholes once they have had their anti Islamic indoctrination in the army.

Just as an exercise, I'm going to replace the word Israeli with Pakistani. Let's see how it reads. Imagine if I or other posters wrote the following:


Originally Posted by Random
I have met plenty of Pakistanis as well thanks and found them to be extremely arrogant, rude and aggressive people. I am at least honest enough to admit that most of the Pakistani I met had recently completed compulsory Islamic training and that particular brainwashing exercise may explain their bad attitude. I have met one Pakistani I liked and he admitted that Pakistanis act like complete arseholes once they have had their Islamic indoctrination in the Madrasah.


Maz 12 May 2011 04:46 PM


Originally Posted by JTaylor (Post 10035642)
http://m.eb.com/topic/277483/Amin-al-Husayni

Britannica any good or are they in on it, too? ;) :D

It's all a conspiracy didn't you know!:D

Luan Pra bang 12 May 2011 05:01 PM


Originally Posted by JTaylor (Post 10035696)
Just as an exercise, I'm going to replace the word Israeli with Pakistani. Let's see how it reads. Imagine if I or other posters wrote the following:

I have seen much worse than that on scoobynet whats your point ?


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