This sort of thing really annoys me!

BMW?
BMW??
Are you having a laugh?

Come on. P1, performance car of the moment (for that sort of money), not many around, quite a showstopper.

BMW, give it a year, they'll be 'a dime a dozen'. They'll be coming out of the city-folks ears.

As for performance and drive. I'm sure the BMW is great, but weighing in at over 1.5tonnes, I don't really care how much power it's got.

Nope, I've read all the reviews on the BMW so far, and never once have I felt "I want".

However, I soak-up all th P1 info I can, and I still feel weak at the knees whenever I read about it.

No contest IMHO.

Mike,

BMW may indeed bring out a lightweight version as they did with the E-36, I think it was called the M3L and was about 250 lbs lighter than the 'normal' M3, very limited production tho' and I've never seen one!

Daz,
250lbs? What's that in really money? http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif I saw a Schnitzer one marked up "CSL" (left hand drive) that had been stripped out by 100kg, but that's still a long way to go! http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif
Mike R

I remeber an article in Topgear which put the AC Schnitzer CSL up against Honda NSX's and the like around the "RING". It was totally stripped out, 2 seats and had uprated engine, brakes, suspension. Beat everything else easily.

Apparently BMW are making a stripped out version of the new M3, but no suprise, it will be LHD only and not an official import.

M3 doesn't cut it for me.

Yeah it looks nice, but having AWD means my Scoob performs whatever the conditions, especially around the countryside where I live.

Can't believe the Scoob has made me seriously negative about RWD and FWD cars.

DazV

Dave T-S... http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif I was referring to my new slimline P1 http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

The incident was nothing to do with my driving! Basically the P1 just can't take the bends??!! http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif NOT

**friday afternoon and having to edit all the typo's ;D **

[This message has been edited by Rum* (edited 20 October 2000).]

Dear All
I havn't felt compelled to reply to a post for a while now, but this has got my billy right up.
It never ceases to amaze me how many of you on here spout such complete and utter ignorant tosh about cars you have either never driven, or not likely to drive. At what point do you make your mind up about a new cars handling credentials? Is it (a)when you see a photo, or (b) when every magazine drives it and rates it as the best example of the type ever and makes no direct comparison with another vehicle in the test? So by now you have come to the obvious conclusion that the scooby even in UK spec would give the new M3 a sound canning eh? how do you know do you presume this or are all of you beta test drivers for BMW or even better on the staff writing team at EVO. Since in the real world the only drivers who are qualified to have an opinion at all are the afore mentioned, may I suggest that this post end here and now, unless of course any of you know for a fact that the scoob would show a clean pair of heels to the all new Porshe double skin back over head underhang if and when it arrives!!!!! I would be intrigued to hear from you
P.S I don't own or aspire to either but I am fortunate enough to drive a mates P1 on occasion, and bloody nice it is too.
Cheers Steve
Sorry to offend anyone on here that doesn't conform to my stereotype

Guys

Have you all been to;

Great post eh?
Look boys and girls I do own a P1 and it is a fantastic DRIVERS car but is is as refined as a Hyandai!
I feel quit frankly ripped off at having to pay £34 to get a car that should have been £31 with all the extras fitted as standard!
Thats the first point!
Second point the BMW is a drivers car and it does have SUPERCAR performance adn as all we have to go by at the moment are magazine articles we should all reserve judgement untill we drive it. For me it isnt much more than I paid for the Subaru but in terms of real world value for money if any of you on here can say that the P1 is better then you need to get a life.........quick!
I will drive the P1 for 3 years awaiting the day when the BMW is an option and then I will feel that i have REAL value for money!
And dont harp on about fun and all that cos I could run rings round most of you in your Subarus in an M3 and would have a BIG smile on my face.
No offence is intended by this post or any others it is merely my own opinion but I think that deep down there are a lot of people in the same situation as me but just dont want to admit it.
Regards,Arron.

[This message has been edited by ARRON BIRD (edited 20 October 2000).]

This has to be the best post by far to bring people out praising the P1. Ive never seen so many nice words written. It has truly touched me.

I ordered one before the road reviews based on the initial spec. Just think the car look the dogs and those electric seats ahhh. I'm sure that if its a bad car judging by the waiting list that already exists I'll have no problems getting shot.

As Arron says a proper driver even in the E36 M3 will run rings around a Scooby. Sideways Simon even posted to this affect the last time the M3 got mentioned. I'm not saying I'm a good driver but I'll look forward to trying to improve in it.

The P1 at the end of the day might be a better drivers car, but Ive been there seen it done it. No harm in trying something else.

Jonathan

Rum

Joke aside, I do sympathise really. It is bad enough when I put a door ding in one of my cars never mind a tree interface.

My commiserations!

I am the proud owner of a P1. My last car was an E36 BMW. In my opinion there is no contest, P1 wins on every aspect except fuel consumption!!!Cant really speak for the new M3 though,but I have a pretty good idea.As I think we all do?

Maybe I should add a few words as I own cars similar to the two being discussed.

Z3 M Coupe:
best power / weight ratio out of the BM bunch, very fast: EVO mag has it 0-60 4.3, 0-100 11.5. Handles very well and predictably, steering has better feedback than UK '99 Scoob and it handles better. It is very rare and well built / comfortable.

UK '99 Scoob, catless: looses out on handling to the Z3 M Coupe, but is far more reassuring in the wet. The sound of the engine and modded exhaust gives me a buzz everytime.

I'd say the Scooby is easier to drive fast because of 4WD drive, but the //M is far more challenging.

Overall, I think it is a bit silly comparing two cars that are very different. The Scoob should be compared with other 4WD drive turbo cars. The //M should be compared to other normally asparated RWD sporty tourers.

Thanks

Sonu

An M3 "run rings round" most Scoobs.

That's a little bit of an exaggeration.

I think the new M3 is great - I would quite like one, but to pay that for something that has a nice interior, but will be a fair bit slower than my STi isn't worth it.

M3s do handle well and in the right hands, especially on a circuit, will give most Scoobs a fright. They don't handle CRAP and are pretty quick if wrung out.

It's just that most of the time they're driven by to55ers! http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

Yawwwwwn
Are u guys still at it, lets change the subject... did anyone see the comma girls at the motor show....best bodywork at the NEC by far especially the brunette.
I wonder how her handling compares with my wifes. No it's no contest my wife would give her a tanning cos I've just seen her photo on the mag she gave me......
Cheers
Steve

Craig

The M3 is 11.2 secs to 100. A touch faster than a std STI which is around 12.

Jonathan

Jonathon.

I know. Mines not std....

Craig H,

Well thats a fair comparison then mate?????????

Mike Rainbird, I know what tiggers meant about the engineering, I was just trying to make the most obvious point without going on about M-Diff's, drive by wire throttles, six speed gearboxes, variable valve timing etc.

Keep up the good work lads, it's so nice to find a few people who still love fast cars like I do!

[This message has been edited by SWOLL (edited 22 October 2000).]

Craig

So what reliable horsepower are you running from your STI. Its not one of these big boost big bang motors is it. Sort of R5 GT.

Jonathan

I'll take the P1 anyday,
the M3 is pretty much at the Max hp you can make out of the engine,
while in the subaru you can easily make more hp.
In a few months the new STI comes out with 280hp (for Japan) and above 300hp for markets outside Japan.
So why buy a handicaped car (with only two wheels driven) when yo can buy a Subaru?
Jhonathan,
Top gear took an F1 driver to compete tiff needele driving a 330i, and he almost lost control over the car, and it's an F1 driver, stick to AWD!

Ask yourselves a simple question:
In four years time which car will be worth more, as a percentage of it purchase price. I would love a P1 but I do not think they will hold their value.

I'm not minted and I have had to graft to save enough money to pay for my next car. http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/frown.gif

I would be gutted to pay 30-34k for a P1 only to find its only worth 35-45% of what I paid 3-4 years down the line.

I love my wifes car to bits, especially after I had a scoobysport box fitted and seats from a MY00 fitted. http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif Thanks too Andy from Grade A.

She can't get me out of the damn thing and I will still pinch it off her when the M3 arrives because it's a completeley different buzz.

Paul

OI!!!! Rainbird, I 'eard that!! (even though it was ages ago).

Why I oughtta..............anyway it's 320kg cheeky!

http://www.harrythecat.com/Smiley/a48.gif

see?

blubs

Jonathon,
That's std STi isn't it? http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif

Dunno - I'd imagine similar to an M3 but with more torque.

Aaron

I seem to remember posts from you going on about the P1 not being the car you though it was going to be. This suggested to me that you should have opted for a Evo (do you still feel this way?). I have not driven the new M3, but if the old one (Evo Version) is anything to go by I can assure you that the new one will not be a car for the true Scooby or Evo enthusiast.

The only car I would consider as an alternative for the roads that I like to drive my P1 hard would be a porker! I even have doubts about the RS4 on tight country Lanes.

Doing 150+ on a motorway is quite boring after about 10 minutes.

PS Happy P1 owner!!

paulmon,

I would say youve got your argument 100% round the wrong way. If you were talking "normal" impreza then you may be closer, but every limited edition car ever has always held its value better. They are limited and hence the people who really like them will always aim for one of these models.
Also, the impreza was a cult classic, I say was because of the new model, which at the moment isnt as appealing.

New cars normally end up with waiting lists, not just the hot versions either. Look at the TT it had over 2 year waiting lists (I know 3 people who had alledged 2 year waits, then within 3 months of launch all were offered cars. Its normal, it always happens with "hype" motors. A lot will depend on other cars, if something better comes onto the market, then loyalty will switch, although saying that, there is the "Im better cos Ive got a BMW mentality".

robski

p.s. I do like the new M3, but want a safe in all weather type car. Otherwise it would be 911 for me, hands down, no choice as it is THE classic car.

Hello Blubs,
Thought that might drag you out of the woodwork... http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

Stop being a wall flower..!
LOL
Mike R

Robski,

Have you had a look at the thread Unsold P1's. It may be a classic, it may be a limited edition run. Why oh why is then, dealers cannot get rid of them (see my post on the above thread).

What do you suppose will happen when the new model wins a few rallies and Prodrive work their magic on it and badge it the P2,P3. Will existing owners keep old of their P1's. I dont thinks so. Why ? because of the same reasons that made you go out and buy the P1 in the first place.

I would like to bet that Prodrive will make the next P1 better in all areas than the current model.

The new shape has met with a fair amount of criticism, but it will grow on you, that is a fact. Existing Impreza drivers will buy the new model when they have had chance to get used to they new look.

If this happens then second hand buyers will be able to have the pick of the crop at cut down prices.

How many cars in this category have truly achieved classic status:

Audi Quattro Sport
Lancia Integrale
Escort Cosworth

Any one of these cars will set you back a tidy amount. Escort cossies are still being sold for around 16K. For a car that cost 22K over 5 years ago.

The reason they became classic cars is they were the last models available. The only way the P1 could become a true classic is if Subaru decided to pull out of rallying before the new model gets a chance.

Done the Evo thing already matey.
P1 is a better day to day car but BMW is a real world bargain in comparison to the P1.

Jesus,you binmen must be on a good wedge http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif

paulmon,

for starters I dont own a P1, Im not defending my position as an owner, but am telling it as I see it, and as the trade which I have a few links with says it (plus thats not sales talk its mates talk if you know what I mean).

All manufacturers are SERIOUSLY down on sales, its not just subaru. Its to do with this pricing battle. If you are buying a brand new UK spec car at the moment would you buy from a dealers?

So if you look at imports, the price differential is MASSIVE, so is the P1 worth an extra 15K? Maybe, to some, but probably not to most.

Subaru have just cut their prices on all models apart from the impreza.

Yep 15K for a 5 year old cossie, plus a lot of them are ****e (read, been ****ed around with) would you pay that?

Most "decent" cars are worth more when they are a few years old, and no longer made, and people have fond memories of them. Christ there are even peope in the Allegro owners club, who look for limited editions!

One of the big things about the P1 was that the initial 500 grew to 1000, I am sure that there was a lot of people speculating over the fact that all previous limited run imprezas held their value much better and were more sought after models. Plus the P1 was the only 280bhp UK spec model available, which most people seem to want. So IM priced the models high. Its really 50/50 on price with an EVO so has more competition.

How many people on here would prefer a P1?

Straight swap, no cash involved, about 99% I would say. So why are they not sold?

The M3 is a different kettle of fish. Just look at the typical BMW driver, they are ****ers. So what does a ****er with plenty of cash buy? an M3 or M5 its simple.
Disclaimer : I know that Jonathan etc are not ****ers, but Im making a point.

To these guys not only do they want you to think that they are superior because they have a BMW, but they want you to think they have more money than that BMW driver over there.

robski