Meet the parents...."Gaylord Focker" gets me everytime :D

Hmm - but not on anything like the same scale as with humans I am sure. Also I bet you don't see a male/femal pair of penguins handing thier chicks over to the gay pair to bring up either :D

OllyK: Well, don't know about adoption, but apparently the gay penguins managed to raise a little penguin and it was just fine after they got given a fertilized egg by the keeper :confused:

Erm... actually, something similar does indeed happen, even with chimpansees.

Do a bit of reading on altruism/sociobiology.

In short, often "gays" help towards survival of their (shared) genes.

but animals dont have to deal with social acceptance in the same way. this is why animals will have sex with their own family as well as starting to have sex as soon as sexually mature.

you go find someone who does either of those and they will be in prison pretty soon!

baby penguin wont have to go to school with other penguins all shouting pingu the perv at him because they have no rules.....if they did he could shout back "my parents may be gay but your mum is 2 years old and does it with her uncle" :D

Tiggs: PMSL :D

Regarding sex within their own families, where's that chav thread about the mum and the son?

Off-topic about social acceptance:
I think you'll find that all social animals tend to have a strict hierarchy and the ones lower down get picked on by those higher up. It's exactly the same with humans but on a different scale.

Or do/did *we* have a blinkered opinion of what "nature's way" really is/was, if you're prepared to accept that most gay people are born that way, not "converted" (a fairly recent development)...

Nature is pretty simple, it is about survival of the species by the passing on of genetic material. Those with genetic material better suited to the environment tend to do better at passing it on.

If you are gay (atificial insemination aside), you are not going to be contributing to the gene pool and the survival of the species and therefore are of little value to the species.

OK that's a purely genetic low level view and doesn't take in to account social values within animal groups and even more so the way that humans mess about with natural selection - see the other thread :D

as a straight man, I dont feel qualified to argue for or against, i have gay friends none of whom are married (several are in long term relasionships) they have never really raised the issue so cant be that important for all of them. Re adoption, thats even more of a moot point, its generality vs specifics; abuse is far more prevalent in *normal* families than most are aware of, so how do you come up with a moral high ground then apply it to gays rather than conventional couples, pretty much impossible- the only constant in all of this is that the children suffer when we get it wrong.

Perhaps its all down to evolution?

The human race is overpopulating the planet (nice one Tel on the other thread)

Perhaps homosexuality is simply an evolutionary process to redress that issue?

Certainly reproduction (the natural way) can only occur between male and female union. So, on the face of it, homosexuality is not as nature intended, but perhaps it has become that way?

Ultimately, perhaps the plan is for the human race to have a defined lifespan, as part of the evolutionary process (if there is such a thing) of this planet.

Maybe thats what happened to the dinosaurs (ok, perhaps a bit off the wall) but who knows?

If we were all gay the human race would disappear within 90 years.

Its not wrong. It is however abnormal. They are how they are.

Olly and Diablo, see this quote from SomeDude

By the same token you could argue the same for AIDS etc.

And many, including lots of religious types, have.

But not *everyone* is gay

It's obviously abnormal, as the norm is to be hetero. However, that doesn't mean it's wrong :)
Historically, I am sure there have been many views/things that have been abnormal, but not necessarily bad for society (or any individual for that matter)

Campasaurus?

Yawn....!! I've NEVER said, or suggested it's bad for society. All I've said is that its abnormal.

You're right, not *everyone* is gay. Reason being it's abnormal. Because if everyone was gay we would cease as a race....therefore to maintain our race the vast majority are hetero, as nature intended. The abnormal homosexuals are just deviants from what as humans we fundamentally should be.

Fire suit on.

:D

Seriously though, yes you could say the same for AIDS.

"The abnormal homosexuals are just deviants "

thank god for context!

But the majority of us ARE "what as humans we fundamentally should be".

Maybe gays are "fundamentally" gay because they don't need to be straight for the continued existence of the human race....

Sorry, should have just said "the homosexuals are just deviants....".

Which, in my opinion makes tham abnormal.

This could go on some time......

This is just my opinion......can say no more really.

But it's *their* bum !

Serious question: do you feel you are being "respectful" (see myriad of other threads) using words like deviant ?

like a spoiler on the scoob of life? always look good but of no real purpose in making the car quicker? :D

i expect he feels he's being acurate?

they are just words and not meant as offensive.

when i meet ppl they offten say "ohhh, you're tall".....they say this because its not normal to be 6'6- if it were, they wouldnt say it!

do they mean offense? no...its in annoying? sometimes!

If it is wrong to allow same sex couples to bring up children, because it is not what nature intended, should we deny 'normal' couples access to fertility treatment, because nature has obviously decided that, for whatever reason, they are not intended to re-produce?

There is no evidence whatsoever that children raised by same sex couples are more open to abuse than those brought up by heterosexual ones.

However, there is the school bullying factor to consider.......................

Geezer

Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but actually, it's abnormal because the majority isn't, and not the other way around (which is important, IMO).

and yes, you haven't said that it was bad in any way, so my comment was misdirected. However, the vast majority of SN's seem to think it is just another sign of the demise of society (probably much like the hippies and flower power was seen as a similar sign by some living back in the 60's).

Main Entry: Deviant
Function: noun

: something that deviates from a norm; especially : a person who differs markedly (as in intelligence, social adjustment, or sexual behavior) from what is considered normal for a group

It may sound derogatory but fundamentally it is true.

they are having an abnormality corrected by medicine.

its socially acceptable to assist people in becoming normal.....joe bloggs has issue in helping ppl go the otherway. (nadia for example ...its becoming a BB thread) :D

Nadia is an simple example of how people have become more and more f$cked up over time.

I don't think *it* is a bad person but christ that is just sick.

F$cking weirdo. Simple as.