My sympathy goes out to that mans family. Whenever a member of the emergency services gets injured or killed, the usual reaction from the public is a sympathetic one. But reading this thread makes me wonder what sort of people contribute! Yes "he should have followed procedure", yes "he should have had a vest on" just like colleagues of mine "should not have gone into the fire" "should not have gone into the lake" But that's why we are different than the rest of you, we don't stand back and make a rational decision, if we did we wouldn't get the job done. That's why you can sleep in your beds at night knowing that, if the gun wielding thieving scum, or your house is on fire with you inside, someone will be there to help you, unless you think you can manage without us!!!
davehttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_11_41.gif

Misty,
Thats not strictly true and you know it. Think back to Kings Cross. It takes seconds for a trained person to put BA on. They didnt and died in tragic circumstances.

There must be strict procedures laid down as to what action must be taken at an incident like this.
Its is always the right thing to take a few seconds to think about your actions rather than just charge in without really knowing what your gonna do.

I dont know what happened in this instance but it doesnt seem as if there was a struggle so therefore a search should have been carried out as a matter of course if a search is actually part of the police procedure for this type of thing.

My job is more dangerous than most.We do everything to a written procedure with no margin left for error. After all, as we have seen here, one mistake can be fatal.

Chip.

Chip,

From what I can gather, the man was placed in the car while they did some checks. The Police have no power to search him at that stage unless they have sufficient grounds, which is what they were doing the checks for. Once they did have sufficient grounds, the injured Pc, then went to get the suspect out of the car in order to handcuff and arrest. At this point the suspect shot both him and his colleague.

However, lets just say that they did decide to search him prior to putting him in the car. Do you honestly think this man would have let two unarmed coppers just take his gun off him without a fight?

They were going to get shot as soon as they decided to search him, whether it be sooner or later.

My comments were in response to Misty rather than anything else.

As I said in my post I dont know police procedures or what actually happened in this instance. I assume the police and this guy though were at the scene for some length of time before the incident happrened as the car in question was being transferred to a tow truck unless of course the truck was on site within minutes which I somehow doubt.

Chip.

[Edited by Chip - 12/27/2003 6:23:22 PM]

[Edited by Chip - 12/27/2003 6:27:07 PM]

I think a number of people here would be complaining if the Police stopped them for a traffic offence, pointed a gun at them, handcuffed and then searched them just on the off chance they had a gun.

In this particular situation the police where confronted with a person who was able and willing to use a firearm to kill them. In this situation the only thing that could have possible protected them is by approaching the car armed. This would then have probably caused a fire fight.

This is a very shocking and shameful crime and my condolences go to members of his family and close friends, nobody deserves to die like this.

:(

Scoobynet at its very best. A mans dead and all you can argue about is why and how it happens.
:rolleyes:
astraboy.

adam

i gather you are a copper.

I am not having a go at induviduals, when i say the police it is generally.

I have met (and been nicked) by some coppers who are fair & square, but and its a bloody big but i find nowadays the majority are arrogant little barstewards.

And its the police management who are causing the loss of respect. If i get pulled doing 35 in a 30 outside a school i deserve it (personally i would make 200yrds either side of a school a 20mph limit) but if i am doing 90 on the m40 at 2 in the morning in the middle of summer i.e dry so what, i know, dont bother with the rapist, the ian huntlys, the gangs, the yobs etc, nick the bloody motorist.

TRUE STORY

Got pulled for speeding a few years ago in aylesbury, 33 in a 30 ok i was wrong, copper gave me a ticket and i gave him my license, got no bull from him, ok fair enough bloke. Three weeks later got pulled and could not produce licence (plod / swansea still had it), guess what, i got cautioned for not being able to produce it!

Dont know where in bucks u are mate, and its not personal, but if u asked who respects the police these days, its going to be not a lot.

My local nicks part time for christs sake.

And if i shoot a burglar, i am in the wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The police (management) need to listen to what the public are saying, they wont till its to late.

Well said Astraboy, this sort of thing is becoming all too prevalent on scoobynet recently!

m8, i would never join traffic as it is completely against my morals, i think it isn't right that people can be persecuted for a crime that has no victim. yes u should be done if u cause an accident or a crash, speed isn't dangerous, crap driving is.

Isnt it better to discuss things though rather than sweep them under the carpet as is done all too often these days.

Chip.

Bleeding hell adam, a sensible police officer.

R U in north or south bucks?

I am pretty near Amersham

In that case may i salute you, as so am i and its nice to know we have one local plod who talks sense.

May u get immediate promotion to chief contstable.

Discuss what? The fact that a copper has lost his life in very tragic circumstances or discuss again how useless some people think the police are?

i don't work in TVP or Herts though, i'm Met.

Merc,
Discuss the fact that another policeman has been killed. Maybe the gun laws are too lax in the UK . I think they are. Ban them all as far as I'm concerned. After all what use has a gun got except to maim.

Most gun crimes are drug related as well so lets crack down on tghis as well. Fook the do-gooders saying you have educate people. We've had them for 20 years and things get worse. Lets reverse things now and do like the Eastern countries do and bring back the death penalty. That'll stop a lot of it but not all. Still one good life saved is worth 10 dealers lives taken.
If we dont discuss things then the bad things will just remain the same.

That is why we have a parliament. For debate.(or used to be til Blair came along)

I havent said I think the police are useless in any of my posts either.

Chip.

Edited to say I await my public flogging for posting such remarks!



[Edited by Chip - 12/27/2003 8:17:05 PM]

errrrrr, ban guns?

u think that the guns that they have at the moment are legally owned??

i thought all armed criminals went and got a licence before legaly buying a gun.

doh.

FFS you two.Most shootings are not planned but just spur of the monent things.
As it stands now all and sundry can just go out and get a gun.

If you take them off the streets,yes people will still have guns but your everyday criminal will find it harder to get hold of them therefore there would hopefully be less occasions when they are used in these situations.

The other option that we are seeing more of is to have armed police patrolling the streets. Do we really want this like they have in the US where gun crime is common place.


Chip.

i'd gladly have a gun at work, but they won't let us have them.

My deepest sympathies go to Pc Ian Broadhurst's family.

I live in fear of my daughter arresting someone who has a gun or a knife, she is a Pc in Liverpool. Your heart stops when you have a phone call in the middle of the night saying 'this is Merseyside Police, I'm afraid your daughter has been involved in an accident in a high speed chase or a drunken brawl whilst on duty and is in hospital'

chip

??????????????????????

No i dont know where to get a gun?

If you know, why dont you pay a visit to your local nick and enlighten them.

Most people in the country are on the whole law abiding and condone this sort of thing.

And i dont think this post turned into a have a go at the police item.

Fact is if the police (as a whole) gained more respect then more of joe public would be willing to go to them, both for assistance and to give information then their job would be easier.

No i wouldn't want to do the job, but as trust in the police goes down, so crime will go up.

Nor do I. But if I really wanted one I'm sure I could find one.

So lets go with what the majority wouldwant and ban guns then.

I,m not.

True. So why dont the public give them more respect.Maybe the arrogant attitude of them has something to do with it.

Chip.

Fcuking hell... What colour is the sky in your world? Where do you think the 'everyday criminal' gets his shooters from? Argos?

thought guns were banned / tightly controled.

But, i agree on a total law banning them, wont stop big verne and his friends tho.

Lots of things are banned, u can still get them tho.

Are you that stupid and blinkered that you cant see what Im saying. If you have a very small amount of guns in circulation only the "top" people of the crime world will have them.

As it stands now there are so many in circulation that any Tom Dick or Harry can gethold of one.

Chip

Guns are, and will always be available to those willing to pay for them.... laws or no laws.

Personally, I'll hand my ticket in on the day they order me to carry a gun.

Just how I feel about the whole gun debate. Personal.

My sympathies to the PC's family.

Guns are banned, I wanted one for target practice. I'm sure I could get one though if I paid the right price to the right person. It's like anything banned. There are always those who seek them and those who supply.
Criminals are not going to stop carrying guns just because they have been told they are banned. They are not good little boys like the rest of us who do as they are told.
To anyone who thinks otherwise - :rolleyes:

I feel the same way as BuRR. Far from making me feel safer, having to carry a gun all the time will give me the jitters.
Why? Because, I will be far more concerned about someone taking it off me. A large number of Police shootings in the USA are with the officers own gun.
We would have to change the whole way we Police. If you think we are unnaproachable now, just imagine what it would be like with an armed force.
Tragic though yesterdays shooting was, it isn't very common in the UK. If we are all armed, then statistics show that there will be more innocent deaths.