scoob_babe: I have once or twice visited Adams, and I don't know what happened in between the visits, but I assume the management
changed or something, because the service was completely different each time.

First time I went I was 21 and driving around a sierra, got a test drive just by walking into the garage. Decided the UK WRX was not as good as the Jap WRX I drove about 1 week before, and went with the Jap WRX (and saved a good 10K).

Second time I went, I went to look a some P1's they had. Turned up in my nice fast JapWRX. Got talked to like I was something the "saleperson" recently scrapped off their shoe. Was told my car was not good enough deposit for the P1 test drive. FINE, FCUK YOU I thought, and on my way out passed a Red 97WRX on their forecourt. Idiot saleperson. Never going back there, infact not going to ever get a UK subaru. They can ram it.

/soapbox.

hopefully getting something faster than a p1 now anyway :p

When I use a dealer, I want to feel as though my custom (whether for a £10 part or a £500 service) is welcome. A certain Surrey dealer who also sells Lotuses made me feel like I was something unpleasant on the sole of his shoe. I also felt that they were expensive and moved to another dealer.
If there's something genuinely wrong with a car still under warranty, I don't want to feel guilty for asking the dealer to investigate and correct the fault.


Full credit to you for finding out what we like and dislike.

General rudeness and incompetence really.
"of course Sir, come down at 1 o'clock and we can do that while you wait" in real terms this means come down a 1 and I'll be a lunch and won't tell anyone what I have arranged.

Mungo,

I too have had the same experience from the Surrey dealer that is also a Lotus dealer. I should have realised this when they were reluctant to even give me a test drive (we had just taken my girlfriends Saab company car in for a service). Anyway they eventually gave me a short 10 minute test drive and I was so impressed I bought one on the spot. Once it came to servicing though it would appear my money wasn't good enough for them. Prime example is when I took it in for it's 7500 service. Me in Jeans and T shirt gets treated like sh!t, guy in a suit picking up his Elise gets his arse licked. Seems to me that the Subaru part of their business is an inconvenience (even though it probably brings in the money) and they would rather just sell Lotus's.

When it came to sell the car none of the local dealers could be bothered to even phone me back so I eventually sold it to a dealer in East Sussex. He asken me what I thought of the nameless Surrey dealer so I told him I thought they were a bunch of to55ers. He smiled at me, nodded his head in agreement and simply said "and long may it continue".

How the hell do the surrey dealer that is also a Lotus dealer stay in business when it is this well known what they are like?

Ian, good on you for posting.

Scooby owners can be very anally retentive and quite knowledgeable. This combination suggests they really appreciate attention to detail and being treated with respect.

Mine and others' complaints surround minor cosmetic damage to the interior or exterior of a car, incorrect tyre pressures (dangerous), being charged for screenwash when the screenwash was full, being charged labour for fitting floor mats and headlight protectors (!), overquotes on labour for doing simple things like spark plugs, incorrect invoicing, not thinking through diagnostic problems to their conclusion and actually checking the original problem is fixed rather than replacing half a dozen perfectly working parts and then requesting that you book in again two weeks later. It would be nice to actually believe a problem was sorted when you have been told it has.

Attitude to European imports is tricky with some Subaru dealers still telling you initially that they won't service them and that they have gear ratios as short as Danny DeVito.

I have nothing but praise for Westaways, Northampton as they help me with my grey ;)
I like (and I hope that they don't take offence) that slightly rural appearance to the place and approach to customer service.

Nick

Just to add my little bit - the thing that really annoys me is not being able to get the best price out of a dealer until you have practically put the deposit in their hand. I understand there is a need to haggle a little bit but sometimes you can't even talk price until you have essentially committed yourself to buying. I know the margins are small but all I want to know is that I am getting a deal that is good for me and most importantly a fair deal. Surely dealers should give the impression they are doing the best deal they can. I hate the uphill battle you have to go through to try to ensure you're not being ripped off.

Piers LoFi

I would like to make a couple of points.

First of all we as a dealer are not perfect and probably never will be. What I will guarantee is I will always try my best to satify a customers demands whatever they are.

Our main complaints from service customers come from problems which are intermittent and difficult to reproduce. But we will not give up until the fault is found and fixed. This most people don't realise is not paid for by IM as they only pay book time to fix the fault and not the investigation time, i.e it may take 10 hours to find a waterleak and 10mins to fix it, IM pay the dealer 10 mins labour. Some dealers don't like this kind of job and sherk their responsabilities to the customer, I do not condone this kind of behavior and it will not happen at my garage.


My position on euro imports. Yes they are cheeper and generally the same spec and yes we will service them and yes we will supply a courtesy car.
BUT I must clarify the so called 3 year warranty is not the same as UK cars. IM cover UK cars themselves as part of their deal with Subaru Japan, this enables them to be not as strict with what is covered and goodwill gestures when cars are out of warranty. Euro cars come with 3 years Subaru from the country of origin. I have had 2 customers being refused a clutch change because of judder, because Subaru Holland would not pay. This would have been changed by IM as we all know it is a common problem.

If it were up to us as a dealer prices would be comparable but our hands are tied to a certain extent. I would point out prices are becoming closer i.e Euro WRX are being sold generally around £18000 and ours are now down to £19495 inc metallic.

Japan imports, yes we do service them and supply parts if they are the same as ours. I have never had a problem with this as a customer is a customer and should be treat fairly.
What I do have a problem with is smart ar$es who come in telling us our their jap import is better than ours and demanding we must do this and do that. I dont talk to them in that manner and will not be spoken to and dictated to by them. At the end of the day we are here to help if we can. (God I hate smart ar$es)

I must admit to be a major petrol head and thus love other petrol heads this certainly helps when dealing with Subaru owners.
I only employ petrol heads as salesman.
I do do track days and actively encourage my customers to do track days to get the best out of their cars and learn to use them in a safe and controlled enviroment.
I do not tell IM when customers cars are modified and invalidate their warranty. (whats the point)

Sorry if I gone on a bit, Its just I am passionate about the brand and the cars and will help any Subaru owner, wherever it has come from.

Keep driving and having fun and if you've got a problem I'll do my best to fix it!!!

What more can we do as a dealer.

Ian



[Edited by X2WRX - 9/4/2002 6:23:28 PM]

[Edited by X2WRX - 9/4/2002 6:25:47 PM]

interesting stories- ian read urs, they are ar$es.

Jen who you talking about? Southampton's garage?

I think the sales side have to be sorted out, they always seem happy to sell the car but after they don't seem to care!

Name and shame the dealers!

Interesting to hear what Mungo said about the Surrey dealer who also sell Lotus vehicles. My previous car was an Elise 111S and I found them to be very helpful. I turned up in jeans and T-shirt and was able to test drive a standard Elise followed by an Elise 160.

I agree that they weren't cheap though. The prices they wanted to service my elise were too much for me. I went to Lakeside Engineering instead.

And then before I bought my scooby I went and test drove another 2 vehicles there. Again, no problem - very courteous. Maybe it depends on whether they think there is a potential sale to be made. As I didn't use them for servicing I can't really tell.

Shouldn't we sort something out with these? can't they go on training courses for knowing how to treat what's most important? treating customers???:(


We are the ones that count. ain't we? :(

When i took a test drive in one a while back, i said i was genuinely interested in which i was, but would like to think about it first, he really wanted me to buy it on the spot, but investing 15k on a car is not something you decide on the spot unless you have won the lotto.;)

Anyway i said thanks for your time, may come back soon, and he replied "Well it was a lot of time wasn't it" and to be honest i thought it wasn't really as i never saw a customer pop in during my time there and i wonder why...??

arrogant to55er!

the parts in the other hand were very nice, but as all parts dept are they were very slow.

Pppsstt... The dealer was from the town were the titanic left port.

Once again well done for posting this, it shows an interest in customer service that is all too rare these days. I have to admit that my local dealer in Basingstoke's service department have been first rate and the only problems I have experienced have been as a result of IM, and not the dealer who have always appeared to do their very best for the customer.

I think it is IM who should probably be working on how to support their dealerships better. However as a customer on the outside that is only how it appears, is this how the actually dealers feel?

Ian, you making a dealership down south?;)

1500 is still quite a lot on the euro imports to uk scoobs.

Assume if all goes well you save 1500, if it doesn't you still have a budget of 1500?? though labour rates are stupid at the dealers.

anyway hope all goes well...interesting thread.:)

Ian, shame you're in Cumbria. :)

Piers LoFi

what is IM?

The few Subaru dealers I have used tend to employ miserable gits, plain and simple. It is almost embarassing talking to them and they will never go far out of their way to help you even if they are not directly suggesting you don't know what you're on about. I can not make the sweeping generalisation that this applies to all of them obviously but many others have experienced the same thing all over the place. The British service sector on the whole is known for service with a frown, but because of the amounts of money involved with buying selling cars people expect more. If I go to a BMW or Toyota garage they can't do enough to help. I don't have a large ego that needs massaging by some smarmy salesman but as most people buy cars based on image the little things such as being offered a decent cup of coffee or reasonable courtesy car are important - BMW even let you use the local David Lloyd centre whilst you wait for a service!

The big problem though is the attitude of IM to the owners of the cars they import which really sucks and to a certain extent you all get tarred with the same brush whether it is your fault or not.

What do I want from a dealer? In a word, honesty.

If you can't get it done on time, tell me you can't get it done on time. If you haven't fixed the problem, tell me you haven't fixed the problem.

I shall never forget standing with a service manager and being told they had fixed my sqeaking brakes. A second later a mechanic brought my car round to where we were talking and it sqeaked to a halt in front of us.

The Problem with buying new cars is that the dealers are not too willing to give their margins away which is understandable as the margin is very tight.

I worked for a Rover Dealer as a salesman a few years ago so it may be different now and it prob varies from manufacture aswell.
If I sold a brand new car say costing £10,000 otr the actual amount of Profit the dealer makes on that car was £900.
From that £900 you have to take out the cost of the Pre Delivery Inspection which was generally £50 (1 hours labour). The cost of the Valet another £40 so we are now down to £810 profit.
This might not sound to bad but if a customer is trading in a vechile and they want more than the book price the money to make up the difference has to come from somewhere, it comes from the dealers £810 profit. Afte a bit of haggling on average you are talking atleast £400-500 to meet the customers valuation of their car so the profit from a brand new car costing 10k is around £400.
Even with 20k+ cars we were having to work with margins of 9% so there was very little room to wheel and deal.
Most of the money was made thru the parts and servicng depts. New car sales acounted for a small percentage of the business
The prices were set by the manufactures and we had to buy the stock at their prices and sell them for their prices so dont blame the dealer blame the manufactures its them that have the customers buy the balls.

Point taken on margins (as I mentioned in my earlier post) but why should I have to haggle endlessly over the finance package. I want to be treated fairly and that means offering a finance package that is the best the dealer can offer. Not offering a stupid rate to start with so I can struggle against the dealer pushing it down. I wonder how many people know the APR/Fixed rate is open to haggling? It's this feeling of having to fight against the dealer to get a good deal that's the problem. Supermarkets keep customers by producing a perception that prices are as low as they can be and customers are getting a reasonable deal. All these stories of people shopping round dealers just confirms that the perception is that dealers do not instantly give the best deal for the customer.

Piers LoFi

I have recently bought a Subaru and the chances are I went to the same dealer as Kin Quick2.

Spent ages at the dealer after months of looking of the web and a few other garages. Have always wanted a Subaru and the car was the cost of a years salary for me.

My main qualm about getting a Subaru was the running costs. Was told it would get a full service and the car would be "perfect" when I took control. When I went to pick it up only had one set of keys. Was told other set were in the safe and the bloke with the cars was not there. After a phone call they realised they did not have them. Bit worried about were there are.

Went away and when I went back to get the other set they cut the key but would not give me the key fob. The person who sold me the car was on holiday and he had left instructions which did not include the key fob. What is the point on one without the other I do not know. Also had asked them to look at the rear tyres which they checked and was told they were 0.2mm away from being illegal but could not do anything.

Called salesman when he returned and he apologised said if I could come in again would get me key fob and put on new tyres. When I got there put old tyres on it, slightly more legal. Completely different brand and tread type to the fronts.

Had to take an afternoon off work to get this done as they cannot do tyres at weekends. Had huge vibrations in the car after this at speed. Had them checked at later date and the tyres were totally out of balance. Quote "I have never seen tyres this out of balance". They had just put the new set on without checking.

Lost all faith in Subaru dealers putting the care and attention into the work and soured the purchase of an otherwise excellent car.

Top comment from Mungo and John B,

It infuriates me when I think of how much Cars cost and their parts and how nicely the car is sold to you but how dare you come back to complain if you have a problem with something.
Im not sure if its a Paranoa problem but I dont trust any of them, not just dealers, mechanics, exhaust fitters the whole bloody trade. I only feel happy doing the job myself or having someone I know well do it. Sure there are lots of mechanics out there who are honest and trustworthy, and enjoy there work and therefor have a bit more respect for the problem in hand.
Ive had lots of vauxhauls and although I had to rely on the Dealer for Gasgets and Washers etc I never got the attention to detail or honesty(servicing) that i got from my mechanic Jim. He broke cav's mostly but helped me with lots of jobs, priced them honestly and was meticulous. He was like a walking/Talking Haynes manual and could tell me anything right down to bolt sizes off the top of his head. His biggest problem is that people take advantage of his good nature if he'd worked in a Garage that would of been taking care of. Garages need to employ people who are naturally enthusiastic about what they are doing if not they should work elsewhere, since meeting him ive met a few others like that and im sure you too know of people like this.
Its these knobs that take your car out for a quick spin ' just to make sure its working' or hammer like hell because they dont know what else to do.
Ive got good reason to be anally retentive and a high degree of attention to detail its because ive parted with a LOT of money, if you dont like then stop selling the cars !
'X2WRX' you should fax these posts to some dealers.

I owned Imprezas from 95-99 and have been running an M3 since then. Although I had some major issues (like having to get a replacement car because the original "new" one was damaged and repaired before delivery) and some minor niggles over servicing, I still have very good memories of Subaru dealers. I have just sold my M3 and hope to return to Imprezadom. I hope the dealers haven't deteroriated in the meantime with the success of the Impreza and change of customer profile. My experience of BMW dealers has been consistently bad enough that I don't currently plan to ever buy another (despite loving the product).

My pet hate with dealers is unpredictable costs at service time. I always try to get quotes before booking in and I detest dealers who then charge more (for no extra work).

Stuart

LOL I really must start reading my posts before I put them up !:)

The spelling is atrosh ....
is attroci
erm its bad OK! :)

My scooby dealer experience was ok'ish, if only I could take all the good parts and put them into 1 dealer.

The Purchase:
My local dealer (5 minutes down the road) pretty much turned his nose up at me, didn't offer a test drive.
However, next nearest (also sells Lotus's ;)) couldn't have been better. Offered a test drive there and then, showed me the performance without scaring my daughter who was in the back and sorted a fair deal for part-ex. Ordered new car on the spot. Even better, dealer 'found' a couple of extra cars and I jumped the waiting list by about 6 mths.

Servicing:
Since I had such a good buying experience, I would remain loyal to selling dealership for my servicing requirements. Big mistake. Comments earlier of being treated like something you may tread in are true. Had one confrontation with female service receptionist which was the final straw. After not being able to find a reported fault, I was sharply told "We weren't supposed to even check it, since you didn't buy the car from here". "Yes I did" was my reply. "Oh no you didn't" she continued "We dont issue number plates with SDL in them". "That's because its a private plate" was the last thing I ever said to her and never had the scoob serviced there again

BUT...I heard through the grapevine (well scoobynet actually) that my local dealer was the dogs wotsits as far as servicing was concerned. And right they were. The best I've ever used. But they weren't the cheapest. Since I had business to deal with, I tried out a local dealer to Basingstoke. Very cheap and very cheerful. Couldn't fault them but too far to use every time.

So, good salesman, good service crew and reasonable rates.....what more could a Scooby owner want.

So X2WRX,

Now that you have had a variety of views, mostly constructive, what are Stan Palmer going to do to improve so that we will all have to drive to your place for our needs, no matter how far we have to come!

To me, that's the bottom line. I think nothing of driving a 100 mile round trip or more just to get the service or work that I need carried out , provided I trust whoever it is that will be doing the work, and they won't rip me off (and I don't just mean financially).

I live in the Midlands and have travelled to geographically diverse locations to visit the likes of TSL, Scoobysport & Nitosport (to name but 3 "third party suppliers") all because they fit the criteria above.

Incidentally my Scooby dealership are good, especially the servicing department. Its small, I'm on first name terms with nearly everyone, my car is treated with care and respect, and I don't get ripped off.

WB

Quite happy with my Dealer, but get the impression that Dealers have to defer to IM too much; and about IM's qualities and commitment to customer service I'm much less sure.

Above all else, I value people who deal with me straightforwardly and honestly. Like one of the other posters said - "if you haven't/can't fix it, then say so". Don't pretend that you've never heard of Piston-slapping Imprezas, or hesitant Imprezas, or STiUKs with rattly suspension. But dealers do, and I suspect it's because IM haven't been able to sort out a 'fix', which leaves the Dealers exposed.

For me, the worst - and most embarrassing - thing is going in to the Dealer 'cos the car's making a funny noise which only I can hear, or has an intermittant fault. Dealers sometimes seem to forget, that very few people are going to go to the hassle of finding the time to take the car in, knowing that the outcome may be another 'awkward' day fitting round taking the car in for repair or whatever, unless they genuinely think there's something amiss.

Good customer service breeds loyalty which in turn can breed multiple sales. I was courteously treated when I decided (mistakenly as it turned out) to buy an A4 Avant rather than a Legacy: consequence was, that when the A4 had to go in a hurry, I bought my first Subaru from that same courteous dealer, and have had three more since...:)

Phil

my dealer(fiskens in forfar) is spot on and polite,always able to chat to me re parts coming in and helpful fitting a new backbox over their lunch break and you know they are being honest when they look at your new brakes saying they looked better than the ferrari's that was in earlier!! as well as when you get a new backbox they say you will enjoy that with smiles on their face,not forgetting to stay after 5 on a friday so i could pick up my car as i was running late.
martin

X2WRX

I live in Carlisle and X2 WRX is the number plate on your Demo...can I swap it for mine???.

I bought a WRX from Well Lane and took the car to you for the 1000 mile service. I was loked after absolutely spot-on, Great personal service and I expect that you'll see me every 6 mts for the next umpteen years. I'm in tomorrow to ask for help with changing my number plate over.

This is why you post on scoobynet !!!.

Why don't other dealers DARE join this forum is the question you have to ask.

MLCS

I have nothing but praises for lavender hill garage!!!
They have helped me out more than enough times and i would recommend them to anyone in the north london/herts area...
Rob MY93 WRX.

My local dealer, who now service my 02 Euro.. always make me feel inadequate and like they are doing me a favour and thats just the way I felt when I went to buy a new one from them, hence the import. When I was booking the service I asked what oil they used...he told me and I must admit I was little slow "The oil we normally use" thank you for that I thought... informative and truthful glad he did not use the oil they don't normally use incase it was either no good but cheap or expensive and they did not make as much on the service. :)

I think as a nation we have a problem with customer service, specially in the car trade, I think it is down to margins, people are not loyal anymore and if they can get it a quid cheaper down the road they will wether they get good service or not, repeat customers are the key, it seems like the deal nowadays is based on a quick turn around and any money spent from the margin is a problem, yeah it might be 2-3 years between cars but in them 3 years you could have told loads of people how happy you are.

BTW I got my motor through Litchfield Imports and they where superb from start to finish.